Bring back the days of leveling up parties

I miss the days back in ffxi when we used to form 6 man parties and level up by chaining mobs out in the environment. I think that has a lot of advantages:
Making friends, getting to know how to play ur class properly, also players needed to be well geared and fed to play effectively which will put more emphasis I guess on acquiring the low level cafted gear.
I haven't come across anyone who had tried that formation here, anyone with any experience on this??
What does everyone think?

It's doable here, up to a certain level, if you scout the right spots. But there's no need for it, and it is most definitely slower than any other leveling method, so it'll be hard to convince people to do it if they aren't nostalgic for the old slow-grind days like you are.

I've done it a few times to level up Chocobo Companions. There are some good "camp" sites as you level up across multiple zones, and Chocobos can fill in for a Healer and/or a DPS if they're built right.
The problem is going to be maintaining EXP skillchains - you can get to about chain 5 or 6 solo easily enough, but for any more than that you need good pulling coordination and heavy AoE damage.

It's always going to be slower than grinding fates or leves, but there's nothing to stop you doing it in-between fates...

Used to have these in 1.0...would do Ants in Thanalan then head to Natalan.

Was actually quite fun.

I also miss having this as an option. I made alot of friends and had alot of entertaining conversations while in xp pts, more in XI cause of the /rest down time, but even in 1.0 there were some. If/when new classes are implemented I'd like to go out and grind them oldschool, if the xp rewards are there. I don't know what the level diff would have to be between the pt and the mobs to make it work though, I imagine 10+ to really see good xp/hr.

Like others said though, with fates, leves, and now dungeons providing the absolutely off the rails xp that they do, I don't know that you'll ever be able to convince people that sustained per mob xp can top the big instant gratification numbers they see in those things.

It's like trying to convince a pt in XI that the mobs you can get to chain 70000 for 300xp/mob actually provide better xp/hr than the ones that you can't get past chain 5 but give 700/mob. The big number makes people think they're getting something better even though the actual per hour xp is less, in dunes parties it was often far far less chasing the biggest xp/mob vs. the faster kills.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

Like others said though, with fates, leves, and now dungeons providing the absolutely off the rails xp that they do, I don't know that you'll ever be able to convince people that sustained per mob xp can top the big instant gratification numbers they see in those things.

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The biggest thing that works against XP parties in this game is the respawn rate. In every area I can think of, your chain will be severely limited by the lack of respawns. That, and you need mobs at least 10 levels above your current level to make it worthwhile, and mobs in this game have the same cap as players (you won't find any over level 50). XP party style play should be okay until about level 30ish and then have steeply diminishing returns thereafter. That is, if you can convince anyone to try it in the first place, for the reasons you mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

That, and you need mobs at least 10 levels above your current level to make it worthwhile

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Actually, xp gained from kills is limited based upon your current level compared to the enemy's level such that enemies that are 10 levels higher than you give the same amount of experience as enemies 5 levels above you. The same happens with every single method of xp acquisition in the game (though, because you can't do dungeons or quests above your own level, it really only applies to FATEs and kills).

The way the game is designed, when doing kills for class xp, chocobo xp, or even spiritbonding, you really have to go for quantity rather than quality, a fact that is only made more distinct with the chain bonus. The limiting factors to this are respawn rate, as you already mentioned but also the proximity of high density spawn points. With a large group, your kill speed eclipses the respawn rate of enemies (for those enemies in regions where spawn points are close enough together to make grinding time effective) very quickly, so that you end up either standing around doing nothing for extended periods (which is what happens/happened? with groups camping the mines in North Than) or running to another high density node, assuming there is one. As far as I've seen, the highest number of close proximity (defined as "forming a closed circuit with itself with travel times of less than 10 seconds") high density (6+ enemies within range of a single pull) spawn nodes is 3 (in the back of the various Garlean strongholds). As such, even if your group was wont to move to a new spawn location, you'd either end up spending half of your time running around or having to settle for low density spawn points (e.g. running around the area north of CPS instead of fighting the mines) that provide substantially fewer kills per interval; either way, you're effectively limited on how much xp/min you can gain by just kill grinding.

When I'm kill grinding (choco xp and spiritbonding), I reach equilibrium on the aforementioned 3 close proximity high density spawn nodes with just one other player. The game just doesn't support the open world spawn rates/numbers to make traditional grinding viable. I get the feeling that this was actually an an explicit design decision on the part of the devs insofar as the did not want to have traditional grinding be a particularly effective method of gaining xp and fully intended FATE grinding to be the replacement playstyle for it (it follows a relatively similar model where you're running around with a group in the open world killing stuff together on a relatively constant basis) since it's (nominally) less repetitive and more varied.

Personally, I've never been fond of kill grinding in any game. It gets really boring really quickly, especially when you end up doing the same enemies over and over again so that you're really just doing it all by rote. I've always preferred it when dungeon grinding is the most efficient leveling path, not only because dungeons are, in my eyes, more fun but because they also teach people how to actually play their characters (e.g. proper rotations because they're not simply hiding amongst a slew of other DPS, dodging red zones, target priority and focus targeting on multi-target pulls), which is what the devs did with 2.1.

A reasonable compromise between the desire for old school grinding and the devs' desire to have leveling experiences be more goal/quest/content driven would be for the devs to mix up the guildhests a bit and add more that emulate the traditional grinding mindset (there are a few that do this already but not many) instead of each having a specific new type of mechanic to introduce to players so that those players that want to have non-dungeon "real" group based experiences could hest-grind instead of dungeon-grind.

wow 1000 chars ...

If the xp is reached at 5 levels then your target mobs should be 6~7 levels above your highest pt member to ensure always receiving maximum xp/kill even after a level is gained.

The "best" way to use the present system in a full party, this also goes for spiritbonding and chocoraising, is to have your full party for the bonuses, spread out as 2~4 groups, depending on the makeup of the pt, so that you each have your own "killzone". You will all gain the xp from one another's kills without completely depleting the mobs in your "killzone". Optimally mobs 6~7 levels above your highest level pt member in your "killzone" should be on a spawn cycle that makes it so that as you kill the last one the first has just respawned, your other "splinter" groups kills should sync so that you run an infinite chain. This would work best between levels 35 and 45 I'd think in the beastmen strongholds, I con't think of many places with mob concentrations comparable, but then I more or less ignore mobs as I go from A to B these days. There's probably many many other places that would work equally well.

@Kit, I can only assume that your kill speed comparison for SBing and Choco xp is with you as a 50, and if your with another player, also a 50. At which point your killspeeds really don't compare to a leveling xp groups kill speeds. There gear won't be anywhere near yours, they don't have all of the abilities, and they don't have the raw stats. What a single 50 can drop in <10 seconds takes a 45 30 seconds, so spawn rates and "killzones" will change significantly.

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Originally Posted by Enfarious

wow 1000 chars ...

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Seriously. If you can edit around it, what's the point of having it in the first place?

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If the xp is reached at 5 levels then your target mobs should be 6~7 levels above your highest pt member to ensure always receiving maximum xp/kill even after a level is gained.

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I'm not sure if it's 5 levels exactly. I know that for FATEs, you actually end up getting the same xp for a FATE 2-3 levels above you compared to a FATE 5+ levels above you, so, presumably, it's a similar construct for kill xp as well.

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@Kit, I can only assume that your kill speed comparison for SBing and Choco xp is with you as a 50, and if your with another player, also a 50. At which point your killspeeds really don't compare to a leveling xp groups kill speeds. There gear won't be anywhere near yours, they don't have all of the abilities, and they don't have the raw stats. What a single 50 can drop in <10 seconds takes a 45 30 seconds, so spawn rates and "killzones" will change significantly.

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That's true. Hadn't considered that, especially given that you're talking about fighting enemies of a substantially higher level. As I said before, never really been fond of straight grinding so it's not something I really give a lot of thought to optimizing.

I know what you mean white having leveling parties, I also find myself seeking the nostalgia factor of FFXI.

I get my fix from FATE parties. To me each FATE seems like 1 or 2 mobs in FFXI.

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Originally Posted by IONIC

I know what you mean white having leveling parties, I also find myself seeking the nostalgia factor of FFXI.

I get my fix from FATE parties. To me each FATE seems like 1 or 2 mobs in FFXI.

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This is the reason I cannot bring myself to do Fate parties. The mobs are so easy that you struggle to get a single hit on any of the mobs because they die soooooo fast. If they could simply multiply their HP pools by 4 so that you could possibly need a tank and 30 seconds of the party working together instead of the current 3 second aoe bombing. Fate is a great idea but it feels like you are fighting lvl 1 mobs no matter what zone your doing them in.

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Originally Posted by IONIC

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Unfortunately, nostalgia isn't the best thing to drive development decisions. =(

I can totally understand and appreciate that FATE grinding shouldn't have been the way that most people found easiest to level up, because you do indeed find people who only leveled through them, and thus have no real knowledge of how their class works in a true, coordinated group setting. However, standing around and killing the same mobs over and over again like we did in XI wasn't very fun, engaging, or rewarding, and it was time-consuming. SE took a step in a good direction by significantly boosting the EXP given by dungeon runs, which is a perfect environment for teaching players how to play their jobs, on top of rewarding time spent with gil, creature drops, and a consistent pool of gear rewards. Still need a good way to help people socialize more with others on their server, though.

I think exp parties in the open world are a great idea. It adds dynamic and a chance to enjoy the open world. In my opinion it would feel more like an mmo if we could interact more with the people on our servers. It would be a great way to meet friends. Just having the option to do so would mix it up a bit from the usual dungeon. Dungeons seem kind of straight forward. No time to get lost and explore. Everyone has been here before let's just zip through this and make it easy. Where is the sense of adventure! Let's get some party skill chains going that fuel interaction between you and your party members. Why is all the focus on endgame and dungeons. The open world at hand is what the community thrives in. Leveling up should be part of the fun, not some button mashing grind. I'm looking for something to mix up gameplay, not the same thing with people I don't know.

I agree with you bit at this point, it's a little too late. Most people are level 50 by now and fates have pretty much destroyed any chance of FFXI leveling style.

I guess the thing I miss most is the sense of adventure, trying to get to your party in the dunes while dodging mobs or casting invisible, running through that area outside jueno trying not to aggro the bats to get to ur group. Exploring and finding a nice new spot in the jungle to set camp and start pulling.
Or using an aoe stone as noob red Mage and aggroing the lizards all around us, resulting in a wipe lol, having then to run a long dangerous path back to camp,
It's tedious at times but I personally find myself missing the atmosphere
I feel this game is a bit too easy

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Originally Posted by Moonwolfthegrey

I guess the thing I miss most is the sense of adventure, trying to get to your party in the dunes

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Standing around in town shouting for 4 hours before you finally get a party, then actually grinding for about 30 mins before the healer has to leave and the group disbands...

IMO DF = leveling party

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Originally Posted by Calyanare

Standing around in town shouting for 4 hours before you finally get a party, then actually grinding for about 30 mins before the healer has to leave and the group disbands...

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Yeah, these days can stay gone, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Moonwolfthegrey

I miss the days back in ffxi when we used to form 6 man parties and level up by chaining mobs out in the environment.

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You mean you actually miss those horrible Valkurm Dunes parties that you had to spend 4 or 5 hours in just to level up 2 levels? Yeah no thanks. Especially not if they brought back the Goblins at the Gates factor of the Dunes parties.

I was looking for a post like this, because since fighting mobs in party to chain exp in Eureka has now teased me to want do more.

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Originally Posted by TarutaruAddict

I think exp parties in the open world are a great idea. It adds dynamic and a chance to enjoy the open world. In my opinion it would feel more like an mmo if we could interact more with the people on our servers. It would be a great way to meet friends. Just having the option to do so would mix it up a bit from the usual dungeon. Dungeons seem kind of straight forward. No time to get lost and explore. Everyone has been here before let's just zip through this and make it easy. Where is the sense of adventure! Let's get some party skill chains going that fuel interaction between you and your party members.

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I would love again, to fight higher level mobs in a party outside of instances, and chain them up to 100 for rerwarding exp. To be able to choose your location and battle mobs, one after the other, while enjoying the scenery, brings a sense of tranquility.

I would also like for a party level sync feature to allow the oportunity for friends and FC members to do this as well.

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Originally Posted by Moonwolfthegrey

I miss the days back in ffxi when we used to form 6 man parties and level up by chaining mobs out in the environment. I think that has a lot of advantages:
Making friends, getting to know how to play ur class properly, also players needed to be well geared and fed to play effectively which will put more emphasis I guess on acquiring the low level cafted gear.
I haven't come across anyone who had tried that formation here, anyone with any experience on this??
What does everyone think?

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I hated these days of Everquest TBH. WoW cured this thank God.

Exactly, I found it such a drag in FFXI unless I was in a party that actually worked, more often than not they didn't. Also, ignoring the fact this was a dead thread but, Yoshi specifically designed FFXIV ARR to avoid exp parties - back during the Beta test he stated this specifically, that he wanted to move players from FFXI style exp parties onto what he termed 'content-based EXP' (that is, quests, dungeons and FATEs). It's pretty clear that opinion has not changed (Eureka doesn't count being end-game and all).

Honestly i’m Enjoying eureka because it brings back a lot of the old FFXI feel- I love needing to rely on others working together in order to survive and succeed, and I feel that the general community inside a eureka instance is much more friendly and helpful than in dungeon or primal instances, but most people (myself included) do tend to choose fate trains over mob chain parties. That was one of the things in xi that people did because there were no other options.

I loved Eureka, but it's sad that when I rarely make a friend there he is from another server, and we lose contact when the instance end, because we are not in the same server, so , why bother investing in that friend? That's a turn down to even try to enjoy the conversation moment...