So the "no BRD" shouts have begun, thanks Yoshi P

yes it has been discussed, but I felt like voicing my opinion about the BRD nerf

1. you reduced blood for blood to 10%, but we still take 25% damage? its now blood for water ...

2. we already lose 20% damage while songs are playing, we continue to make us even weaker

3. RoD now evasion down......

4. Bloodletter AND Straight shot reduced to 130 potency

5. Our damn Relic weapon already had lower base dmg than all other relics

Did it ever occur to them how it feels like a complete waste of time to look at a job and see its abilities and traits and decide to choose it only to have them change the reasons you picked it in the first place

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

2. we already lose 10% damage while songs are playing, we continue to make us even weaker

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20%

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

4. Bloodletter AND Straight shot reduced to 130 potency

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Tooltip error. Nothing here was changed.

Level something else....most people play more than 1 job. I do anyway, variety is the spice of life and all that.

Or you could always, you know, adapt...

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

... meanwhile DRG gets an enhanced B4B and still gets archers 20% increase

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Archer is not one of DRG's cross classes.

Archers 20% of what? DRG don't use any ARC abilities. That part of 1) doesn't sound probably how you mean it. And of course they get traited B4B, it's their ability.

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Originally Posted by Reiterpallasch

Tooltip error. Nothing here was changed.

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I didn't know this at all. (I don't play a BRD)

BRD are support class, not dps. u need just for song.

Anytime there is a fight which is mana-intensive, bards will always have a spot in the party.

LOL get over it

To be honest I expected people not to want SMNs but I've been doing fine. If they're going on like that then it's probably good you're not grouping up with them. Or, as someone else said, level up a new job. Way easier now. I'm currently leveling up BRD (heh) through dungeons and it's been really quick.

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Originally Posted by Nash

Archer is not one of DRG's cross classes.

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I corrected it, I was lookin at lancer, my fault

I've tested Straight Shot and Bloodletter. It's a tooltip error; Bloodletter still does even damage to Heavy Shot (give or take, RNG and all), and Straight Shot does what it should be doing. Hopefully the tooltips are not an omen of things to come.

I agree that some of the Bard nerfs were a little unwarranted, and probably tweaked for the interest of PvP (I can see how huge of an advantage it is to force the entire enemy team to suddenly do 10% less damage with just one Rain of Death, and how useful being able to hit them 10% more often would be). But I find myself still just as desired. I hope they give us more song variety in the future, or at least do away with the -20% damage that Mage's Ballad and Army's Peaon bring.

Brds seem continue to think that DPS is what they're there for. Your a support class your not there to do as much damage as a blm or drg, your there to enhance every else's performance

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3. RoD now evasion down......

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Still useful, you can use less accuracy gear with a brd in the party.

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Tooltip error. Nothing here was changed.

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This, i've observed no difference in damage

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Brds seem continue to think that DPS is what they're there for.

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They queue as a DPS and are supposed to be competent at it. They simply have abilities that are centered around helping their party members. The problem was they did too much damage. They really were among the best DPS in the game so even trading 20% damage for a buff they were still pretty strong. That's why they got nerfed.

I have yet to see a "no brd" shout. most people are smart enough to know that they are still an amazing utility class and they are vital in many things, especially coil 2 and 4.

Best group for me :

Paladin, warrior (thanks for him the 10% reduction damage, the chain, the big dps while off tank), the dragoon (thanks for his burst), the bard (thanks for his balad / requiem), the white mage and sch, one black mage and a monk.

exemple on ultima arma, while i main tank and take the debuff on me, the warrior are not in defi and burst the boss.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

They queue as a DPS and are supposed to be competent at it. They simply have abilities that are centered around helping their party members. The problem was they did too much damage. They really were among the best DPS in the game so even trading 20% damage for a buff they were still pretty strong. That's why they got nerfed.

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That's true but even thought hey queued up as dps they had a healer LB. it seemed pretty clear they didn't have a clear picture what brds were supposed to be. But at its design it's supposed to be a support class before a DD. Now that they balanced that to make it more like what it should be, there are still a lot of brds thinking they should be doing as much damage as a blm. I heard a lot of people complaining about RoD nerd, saying that it's completely useless now because brds have near 100% accuracy anyway. And that the sign that that person is not playing brd the way it should be because they're overlooking the fact that the evasion down benefits the whole party not just the brd.

You certainly don't want to stack too many bards in a party but the nerf was negligible, it added maybe added 30secs to our Tier 4 clear time. Bard are still solid DPS in a party but quite a few of them are pretty terrible. We have two bards and a SMN in our tier 4 group which is one of your more intense DPS races and we still cleared it with ease using the same gear as the week before.

On another note the 20% damage cut for actually "supporting the party" is a slap in the face to be honest as we were not the top DPS before the update and we certainly are not after.

Bad players shouted for 2brd's, now the bad players shout for no brd..

At Op, deal with it or change jobs.

The cross class skills got nerfed for everyone not just Bard.
So B4B only does 10% more damage for everyone using it as cross class skill.
BRDs still do good damage even after the cross class skills got tweaked.

The only real loss to BRD was RoD's 10% damage reduction, that's all.

Stop whinnying for nothing.

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Originally Posted by Wobi

You certainly don't want to stack bards in a party but the nerf was negligible, it added maybe added 30secs to our Tier 4 clear time. Bard are still solid DPS in a party but quite a few of them are pretty terrible. We have two bards and a SMN in our tier 4 group which is one of your more intense DPS races and we still cleared it with ease using the same gear as the week before.

On another note the 20% damage cut for actually "supporting the party" is a slap in the face to be honest as we were not the top DPS before the update and we certainly are not after.

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We have two bards in our coil group and we cleared 1-4 faster this week than any week before. Threat changes to tanks where a big dps boost for everyone on stuff like T4.

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

At Op, deal with it or change jobs.

The cross class skills got nerfed for everyone not just Bard.
So B4B only does 10% more damage for everyone using it as cross class skill.
BRDs still do good damage even after the cross class skills got tweaked.

The only real loss to BRD was RoD's 10% damage reduction, that's all.

Stop whinnying for nothing.

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Nice gear bro, you must be a BRD expert!

One bard is still required for the hardest content in the game.

Brds are still needed for the mana buff etc. But we take 1 now instead of 2. Which is fine imo. Everyone was playing bard because they were OP which is why groups took 2. Now that groups want 1 brd instead of 2, people should reroll and balance out the classes better.

Prior to 2.1 I saw 2 brds for every non brd.... Now I see more smn's and blm's, people actually taking melee for a change etc.. These are nice to see changes imo.

I was also a little concern on the changes at the first place.
but i found out Bard still good dps in mobile fight like ultima, i always being next target when MT or tanks died.
But in static fight like T4, Mnk is a clear winner.

For them giving Heal LB on bard as dps role, dunno what SE was thinking but it help sometime when a healer or both are down.
Plus we got other 4 classes dps LB already, and they doing thier job well.
So i prefer having heal LB.

But completely changed RoD is awful. Although WAR got this ability but it is quite different in usage.
Bard's RoD used in occassionally multi target dmg reduction but WAR's SP is single tatget but can keep debuff up on entire fight.
They shd only nerf RoD to 5% and give WAR's one for like 5-8%.

So bard is not overpowered now?
*Gasp*
The injustice!

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Originally Posted by SirSaber

At Op, deal with it or change jobs.
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That was my point, I would have started with a different job and not wasted my myths/time trying to buff up a job they wanted to be a support class, why not split the class and give 2 job choices like they did arcanist, 1 for support, and maybe ranger for dps...oh wait, that would make too much sense

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Originally Posted by Radkat

So bard is not overpowered now?
*Gasp*
The injustice!

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BRD was never OP, lol

Wait...you mean that people are only looking for maybe 1 BRD instead of always having two, just like every other class now?

I mean, it hasn't occurred to you that maybe these groups already have one BRD and don't want to stack them anymore?

Bard gets one spot in 8 man parties instead of two now? Seems balanced to me.

At least 1 Bard is needed in a group to help the Mages and Healers with their MP or Damage rate.

As of now we probably won't see 2 Archer Jobs in a group as often anymore until SE releases Archer's 2nd job.

BRD was never OP. A good <any other class> could always beat a good BRD. BRD however is very easy to play, so a bad player would play BRD decently, and jobs like DRG or MNK poorly. Which of course, made the BRD seem OP when they really weren't.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

Still useful, you can use less accuracy gear with a brd in the party.

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The main issue with this is that in order for it to be used effectively, you would need 100% uptime on it. The duration needs to either be extended, the TP requirement lowered, or both. The other issue being that groups would need to gear in a way that allows them to actually utilize it to begin with, which means you're now reliant on a BRD which you may or may not always have.

This is why I think the OP is a little daft. Bards and Archers are mobile DPS, you can DPS anywhere, anytime and within reason non-stop. You have minimal (if any cast bars) you're not affected by range, your dps is constant. All within a reasonable amount, your over all skill damage might have been adjusted, but I have yet to see any problem with Bard DPS, I still see them doing quite well in dungeons/raids.

someone pass the popcorn

I always lol when people think Bard is a support class because it has a healing LB.

On topic though, I don't know why people are acting like this is some kind of horrific tragedy. The SS/BL change was debunked as a tooltip error, and while BfB/IR was indeed nerfed, it's like a less than 4% dps decrease. The sky isn't falling, Yes you might not see groups stacking Bards any more but they are still going to take at least one and you are still going to do excellent on heavy movement fights and fights with downtime and/or lots of add switching.

The Rain of Death change is what everyone should be complaining about, since it made the ability totally useless outside of combo procs.

One. More than one bard is bad. Stacking reduces limit break bar.

Two. Bard's are still useful for mp regen, especially if something goes wrong and healer's need help.

Three. People are stupid, and those groups that don't want specific classes for stupid reasons are usually the groups that do the worse.

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

Did it ever occur to them how it feels like a complete waste of time to look at a job and see its abilities and traits and decide to choose it only to have them change the reasons you picked it in the first place

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I think this is what they are trying to fix. when i see bard I see a support role, like in every other final fantasy game or any other game that has had a bard class or job. Sure they can deal damage and do other things but over all its a support role. I think having these many cross ability stat boosts pigeon holed it into becoming a strict DPS. I lost count of how many times people playing bard said they would not play a song because it cuts down their DPS, forgetting it boosts up 7 other people.


They are trying to fix bard for the people who picked bard and saw .. well.. a bard. someone that sings and supports while providing damage. They have stated the game will have hybrid roles, I beleive Bard is the 1st step to hybrid roles and as the game progresses it will be less and less a DPS and more and more a support or Hybrid.

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Originally Posted by MMONSTER

That was my point, I would have started with a different job and not wasted my myths/time trying to buff up a job they wanted to be a support class, why not split the class and give 2 job choices like they did arcanist, 1 for support, and maybe ranger for dps...oh wait, that would make too much sense

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Maybe Ranger will be added as a Job later and it will be a True DPS but for now Bard should be looked as a support that can deal Damage. I'm sure if you wanted you could Nuke hard on a white mage or deal big Damage on a Warrior or Paladin but their underlying roles are Healer and Tanks. The only Reason bard is not listed as a Support yet is because they have yet to release more hybrid roles. When they do Bard will be changed to it. This has already been stated in several interviews. and Honestly if the only role for support is Bard it would be hard to queue always waiting on bards.

TL;DR DPS less, Sing more.

I've yet to see a "no bard" shout.

Bard and SMN in party... good damage we bated it ! :-)

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I've yet to see a "no bard" shout.

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I saw "no BRD" shouts way before the patch. Now it's worse.

I'm dropping Bard to level BLM because my coil group asked me to, I'd rather stick with my main, but currently we don't need me on BRD. I'm more a fan of the "bring whoever you want regardless of class" instead of "you need a person on every job" for raid comps, but that latter seems to be the direction ffxiv is taking.

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Originally Posted by Zedine

TL;DR DPS less, Sing more.

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It's not a support class. If it was a support class then it would be labeled a support class. It has some support abilities, yes, but most of them are pretty underwhelming and/or cannot be maintained for very long. Bard still spends a vast majority of the time DPSing. Yoshi never said Bard was a support class in this game, nor did he say the purpose this nerf was to make Bards more "support". In fact, iirc he explicitly said it's a DPS before anything else. You guys are living in FF11/1.0 days and making all these assumptions about what Bard is supposed to be, but currently there are NO support classes in ARR, and there probably won't ever be because they are extremely hard to keep balanced in all facets of the game (Red Mages in FFXI anyone?).

The intention of the nerf was to address the issue of Bard being able to DPS totally unfettered while moving and having basically 100% uptime on bosses. Whether or not the nerf was justified is up for debate, but it has nothing to do with making Bards more of a support class.

EDIT: Apparently SE did say they would be adding pure support classes in the future, but as of now there aren't any.

i love how people want absolutly justify the fact that bard isn't a support role, indeed actually we don't have a role support in the duty finder.
why that? because bard is the only support class, means the party will have been like this:
-1 tank: warrior/paladin
-1 healer: scholar/white mage
-1 damage dealer: Monk/dragoon/summoner/black mage
-1 support: bard.

means a group will be forced to have a bard more important play bard will be like have a free ticket for join a group since you are actually the only support class. however, be sure that if they add more support class, they will add the role.

but that don't change the fact that bard is a support class!