A Simple Solid Solution for FC Housing

It's obvious a lot of people are angry at housing right now and some are confused as to why, so here's a look at the problems that exist with the FC Housing system.

Reason for Anger -

- Promised feature for all to enjoy

- Yoshida far off when stating medium plots cost quest money from lvling to 50 x3

- Escalating prices requiring extensive grinding to afford

- Poor game design over a separate problem (gil sink)

*The anger is over promises and honor. We would have been less angry if they said they were holding off until they could accommodate more.*


Yoshida says that "the wealthiest players could easily buy up all available plots of land". Thus he changed the pricing and claims we can make about 20,000 gil a day.

Problems with the Approach -

- How many hours does making 20,000 gil take? Most work or study and hours mean more

- Out of 20,000 a day, what % will a person give to their FC if any? We save our money and spend some on gear and items

- The cost makes many turn to RMTs to buy it

- No restrictions in place on housing separate from money


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If you take a moment to think about it, Yoshida is expecting all FCs to form 20 man money train teams who spend many hours a day to make money for the FC. FCs are not a totalitarian state however, and the players do no give their money in whole to the FC. Yoshida is looking at the problem without details. If you earn 20,000 gil, you spent how much on items and equipment? If everyone was stuck on earning gil in this way, they wouldn't be able to play other classes as that costs money to equip unless you are an obsessive crafter like myself. By this way of thinking, he is expecting ALL FC members to donate 100% of their money into getting a house, which is an unlikely occurrence.

As it stands, Yoshida's stance is flawed in every way but he has overlooked more efficient means of limiting houses! He has forgotten that Game Design is about finding better more inspired approaches to problems and never neglecting that a simple solution is best. Here he has become fixated on removing Gil from the population to limit house purchasing instead of a better more game innovating solution.

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Originally Posted by Naoki_Yoshida

Fundamental Pricing Stance

Our fundamental stance toward housing prices was that we wanted to ensure that plots would be evenly distributed, avoiding a situation in which the wealthiest players could easily buy up all available plots of land. Please understand that while we will be adding servers and expanding housing areas as soon as we can, it is simply physically impossible for us to accomplish this easily, in a matter of one or two weeks.

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So, we don't want the Wealthiest Players to buy out plots? How do we lower the number without raising prices?! Employ a non money linked number of course!

Solution!

- Limit Housing to a simplified number of members in an FC for a house grade. 8 for Small, 25 for Medium, 60 for Large. Employ a number based on required players and multiply with a possible minor addition of cost (5% more for medium, 10% for large). This lowers the cost to 250,000 gil per person, (275,000 per person for a large house).

(I've heard a lot of people talk of buying multiple plots so - if FC's can buy more than one plot, make it so they can buy only one. There is no real need for more. If we ever needed to be able to buy more, make it so you can have only one of each grade)

- 2,000,000 for small

- 6,875,000 for medium

-16,500,000 for large

This solution just means that an FC of a certain size qualifies for a house. It has the unfortunate prevention of smaller FC being unable to buy a large house, but good luck having 4 people earn 60-650 million gil as is. This solution forces a number of people per house meaning that a certain number gets to enjoy it. (An important note here is that it should be based on accounts and not characters, as alts would just be made otherwise). This solution means that if every "wealthy" person went to buy out all the big houses, they'd be dragging 59 or more people with them to buy em out. The only "problem" with this is that a small house requires 8 people. This does limit 4 man FCs a bit, but they can easily make 4 new friends to join them. In that sense, this actually boosts community bulding too.

If you can't supply a large house for every 60 players then you will NEVER be able to supply for private player housing.

This is a FAR more fair and qualified solution that charging us more than we've even SEEN in game. As it stands, only those who HAD money on legacy can afford a house EVER. Even after the time for it to decrease occurs, we'll never see the feature. Many people stuck around with the idea of what housing will add to the game for them but are betrayed by this flawed system.

It is obvious this flawed design crumbled under the desperate need for a gil-sink. This tunnel vision is hurting the game that has risen to become so great. Whoever came up with this messed up money idea needs to be given a vacation and to rethink their stance on game design. It is not about coming up with a solution, it is about creating an easier and better solution that is simplistic in the approach and adds a greater depth to the game.

So lay off the gil sink Yoshi, you and your team are better game designers than that!

Also, can a single FC buy more plots ? Or are you limited to a single one ?
Then, i'm in a buddy FC where we are 8 and we all play like 2-3 hours a day, i don't even imagine ourself getting in that "money farm stuff intensive" in order to buy a house... and that's pretty sad.

It doesn't matter anymore.
They don't care about us. They say one thing, and do another.
They already told us "Welp, there's other shit to do so stfu and enjoy other content."
I'm in for any idea's here but they said what needs to be said.

P.S. I heard, if we bought 1 plot/house or whatever, we can't upgrade it right?
So if we bought a small, we can't move it up?

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Originally Posted by Rikachu

That's correct. You would need to tear down the house and plot, and you lose all that Gil.

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I didn't think it could be worse but it did. Jesus screw me.

Very well written. Kudos!

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

It doesn't matter anymore.
They don't care about us. They say one thing, and do another.
They already told us "Welp, there's other shit to do so stfu and enjoy other content."
I'm in for any idea's here but they said what needs to be said.

P.S. I heard, if we bought 1 plot/house or whatever, we can't upgrade it right?
So if we bought a small, we can't move it up?

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That's correct. You would need to tear down the house and plot, and you lose all that Gil.

Sadly, when I get home I will have to let the guys know that although I had personally promised 1 million of my own gil to the housing effort that it will not come even close to getting a small or medium plat and the small lot is about double the size of the inn room which in its self is unacceptable. I will have to let the guys know that housing isn't happening and that they should find some fc leader who bought gil from RMT if they want a house. As for me, I'm probably done with the game.

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Originally Posted by LastDream

Also, can a single FC buy more plots ? Or are you limited to a single one ?
Then, i'm in a buddy FC where we are 8 and we all play like 2-3 hours a day, i don't even imagine ourself getting in that "money farm stuff intensive" in order to buy a house... and that's pretty sad.

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It's hard enough earning 20,000 a day for one house, 2 would be horrible.

And you're also on an inflated housing priced server, our smalls cost more than mediums.... such a revolting idea from the team, it's like they hired the guy from SWG New Game Enhancements to give them an idea.

I know right saving up gil is such a pain and having to earn it apparently like everyone else such a bother know I have to save some more gil because it was more than I expected it to be. I have a civil right to own a house I expect a deed to a plot of land to be mail to my mog asap or I quit SE. Also I expect a private server for housing my FC an I deserve it because we pay a subscription fee for this game if not it shows you dont care about the community and the game will die if you do not follow my expectations!

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Originally Posted by Darus

It's hard enough earning 20,000 a day for one house, 2 would be horrible.

And you're also on an inflated housing priced server, our smalls cost more than mediums.... such a revolting idea from the team, it's like they hired the guy from SWG New Game Enhancements to give them an idea.

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Another thing i don't get also, i visited the houses today for fun and on Limsa the houses were from 20M to 300M, but in Gridania i saw a house cost 3M, how is that possible ?

A simple solution is that make the FC can only buy one land lot and can only own one land lot at a time until put up for sale, then if that land is sold they can buy another one. This way you don't have to make the price highly insane making it out of reach for everyone. Why on earth would you make it FC can buy multiple land then implemented an insane price to make it not possible? You are just making things more complicated then it should and make promoting RMT.

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Originally Posted by Zaiken

A simple solution is that make the FC can only buy one land lot and can only own one land lot at a time until put up for sale, then if that land is sold they can buy another one. This way you don't have to make the price highly insane making it out of reach for everyone. Why on earth would you make it FC can buy multiple land then implemented an insane price to make it not possible? You are just making things more complicated then it should and make promoting RMT.

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I thought that it was a given that an FC only gets one land plot. I think it was stated somewhere... but it's not like we can TEST it with the current pricing. I may have to edit that into my original post on that sense.

RMT's are having a "Christmas Sale". I hope no one is dumb enough to fall into that trap.

They should have made FC points the currency for housing. That would have solved the RMT issue.

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Originally Posted by Black91CRX

They should have made FC points the currency for housing. That would have solved the RMT issue.

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More than likely they'd have had to implement some sort of special point earning system to go appropriately with the housing or I would have agreed with you fully.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arriverderci

It doesn't matter anymore.
They don't care about us. They say one thing, and do another.
They already told us "Welp, there's other shit to do so stfu and enjoy other content."
I'm in for any idea's here but they said what needs to be said.

P.S. I heard, if we bought 1 plot/house or whatever, we can't upgrade it right?
So if we bought a small, we can't move it up?


I didn't think it could be worse but it did. Jesus screw me.

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The first thing I learned playing FFXI was the producers at SE dont care about the players. In fact it seems like they purposely do stuff to see what we can take. I feel like a social experiment sometimes. While I applaud the OP and his reasoning and think it would solve a lot of issues, we will never see a change in housing. In 11 we learned to bend over, grab our ankles and say may I have another sir? FFXIV is no different.

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Originally Posted by Yurikitty

The first thing I learned playing FFXI was the producers at SE dont care about the players. In fact it seems like they purposely do stuff to see what we can take. I feel like a social experiment sometimes. While I applaud the OP and his reasoning and think it would solve a lot of issues, we will never see a change in housing. In 11 we learned to bend over, grab our ankles and say may I have another sir? FFXIV is no different.

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While the rediculously poor game design would support this, I will say that the reason they will listen, eventually, is because they did so before. They tore down and rebuilt their game into what we see right now because they listened. They did right on many levels so we can hope and try to present it to them with enough force that they will listen.

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Originally Posted by Darus

- Limit Housing to a simplified number of members in an FC for a house grade. 8 for Small, 25 for Medium, 60 for Large. Employ a number based on required players and multiply with a possible minor addition of cost (5% more for medium, 10% for large). This lowers the cost to 250,000 gil per person, (275,000 per person for a large house).

- 2,000,000 for small

- 6,875,000 for medium

-16,500,000 for large

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I like this solution, as it bridges SE's desire to decrease the available gil in the economy, while incentivizing players to farm hard for gil.

I posted an alternative that I think is even less punishing to players who are more casual, and the idea of farming even a hundred thousand gil is a daunting task.

The idea is to give people a taste of housing but take away all the flair and customization. That way, FCs have a place to call home and can work incrementally to improve their house.

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Originally Posted by YuriRamona

• Basic, small land plots are free (or charged a minimal rent)

The free houses are essentially larger inn rooms, with basic furniture and furnishings such as a table, chairs, and benches. Nothing can be moved or added.

• Customization options are what are under the tiered pricing system

For every 1 million gil, you unlock the ability to change one feature of the building (windows, color, doors) or to add a room to the house.
For every 500,000 gil, you unlock the ability to place 10 pieces of furniture.

You can pay 15 million gil to increase the size of the house to medium, and 50 million for the large size. (Prior investments could count towards these sums)

Benefits:

• Poor FCs have a place to call their own while they farm up gil to unlock customization of the house.
• FCs can see their progress being unlocked, rather than throwing money into a deposit box into something that (for most casual players) is not going to materialize for 2-3 months as prices gradually drop.

Cons:

• It's a much harder sell to put a huge price tag on small features like moving furniture and placing furnishings.
• It would've been more difficult to code a system like this.

I've created this thread because we should not only be upset by the outrageous, casual-unfriendly pricing on FC housing, but by the fact that it could have been avoided.

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I do have to say I like your idea too, but I personally feel that it should be based more on the market on the buying and selling and crafting of resources into most of the house improvements. Just a gil sink will let the market die, needs to be reinvigorated.

I don't interpret the issue as one or a few FC's buying multiple plots, locking out other players. I assume the real issue is more like "There are more FCs that can afford to buy A, as in ONE house, regardless of the sizes than we can physically offer."

It's an issue with their hardware capabilities, instance servers, or whatever else that can't be gotten around be redesigning anything to do with in-game mechanics or prices. The gil wall is there to keep most of the players out for the sake of keeping them out. Not out of some notion of protecting other players by stopping a few super-rich FCs from having a monopoly on the land, which YoshiP so disingenuously seemed to imply.

I dont know about you guys but my FC members donate about 5 million gil in a week before the patch. We are zerg like FC though and probably have close 50-70 online during peak hours.

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Originally Posted by Kinku

I dont know about you guys but my FC members donate about 5 million gil in a week before the patch. We are zerg like FC though and probably have close 50-70 online during peak hours.

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Is that per week or in a week? Per week is impressive, but a grand total donate in a week in preparation is different. I myself can make 100,000 to 200,000 gil in a day, but it requires hours of staring at the market board looking for the next item to sell and remaking each sold item as they are sold... it's mind numbing. I rather go homeless than doing that for 60 million gil...

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Originally Posted by Darus

Is that per week or in a week? Per week is impressive, but a grand total donate in a week in preparation is different. I myself can make 100,000 to 200,000 gil in a day, but it requires hours of staring at the market board looking for the next item to sell and remaking each sold item as they are sold... it's mind numbing. I rather go homeless than doing that for 60 million gil...

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In a week sorry, but we have n0t reach rank 6 yet so we still trying to gather enough funds to see what we could afford. I could see why smaller FC feel left out when it comes to housing, if bigger FC can gather funds faster it be tougher for smaller FC to compete for lots. I am just glad we rise 5 million because it show alot of members are willing to put in time and effort to help out FC

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Originally Posted by Kinku

In a week sorry, but we have n0t reach rank 6 yet so we still trying to gather enough funds to see what we could afford. I could see why smaller FC feel left out when it comes to housing, if bigger FC can gather funds faster it be tougher for smaller FC to compete for lots. I am just glad we rise 5 million because it show alot of members are willing to put in time and effort to help out FC

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Yes, but that's one time of 5 million, as with all FCs and donations, you don't know how long it would take or how generous they will feel later. Me and 2 others in my FC brought us up to 2 million, but we're spent in effort on money making for the moment.

I am still puzzled how their solution to the money issue is to make everyone grind to make more money. It's just not good game design...