So you say you are going to ban RMT

I'm not gonna talk about housing prices, many people have already covered that topic thoroughly.

What I do want to ask is what in the patch note said in RED marked words that buying houses with RMT will get you NOT BANNED, but seized.

I am curious to:
1. why not ban, but just seizure?
2. how can you tell if an RMT service is involved?
3. I don't see SE killing off bots on time or at all for known bots that has been reported by the community for month.
4. Is this your way of removing illegal and excess gil from the server accumulated by RMTs?

On a side note, I have reported the 2 bots near the eye for an eye miner leve quest in coertha for month, and they are still happily killing Ornerys.

Perhaps its time to let the community take care of these things? If i was able to handcuff ban them, these two bots would have been gone long time ago.

They meant that the Company House will be seized, if they can prove that the house or it's lot have been obtained using RMT or other illicit means.

So, basically if at least 1 member in the free company has invested into the housing of the company, the company might have it's house seized when the said member was caught and proven guilty of RMT / illicit activities.

SE's ab ability to detect RMT involvment has skyrocketed since FFXI. Back then they couldn't intercept the tells and monitor the mail. Now they can. It's not that hard to see when a player has used the RMT's really because now all they have to do is look at logs.

So you answer to #2 would logically be, Who's buying a house on day one? Review the logs to see if it's all legit, or if a bunch had a sudden influx of gil that came from other Player? If so, delve into the chat logs, and viola. They'll see the RMT involvment. WHole think would take less than 5 minutes to see.

Hypothetically, if the FC leader buys gil to pay for housing but the FC members aren't aware of it, SE seizes the housing instead of banning the entire FC for RMT activity. I assume that the FC leader would be banned even if it doesn't say so, but at least everyone in the FC isn't punished for the actions of one stupid leader.

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Originally Posted by Rune_Crystalblade

SE's ab ability to detect RMT involvment has skyrocketed since FFXI. Back then they couldn't intercept the tells and monitor the mail. Now they can. It's not that hard to see when a player has used the RMT's really because now all they have to do is look at logs.

So you answer to #2 would logically be, Who's buying a house on day one? Review the logs to see if it's all legit, or if a bunch had a sudden influx of gil that came from other Player? If so, delve into the chat logs, and viola. They'll see the RMT involvment. WHole think would take less than 5 minutes to see.

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Do you ever tought the tells points out a website, you buy gils directly on the website, a player (the player's name giving money is usually sent via mail, after your purchase, organizing the meeting, obiouvsly not the same player who sent you the message, that's a bot) gives you the money bough, noone talks?
What tells are you talking about lol :D

This is just another example of how SE's shortsighted RMT paranoia will alienate the gaming population. Don't get me wrong, RMTs are a bane to any MMO's existance but to punish people because they unknowingly associated with someone who dealt with RMTs is ludicrous. The Devs need to take a step back and examine how other successful MMOs have dealt with this problem and implement many of their procedures, Failure to do so will drive more and more people away from the game when it is not fully established yet.

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Originally Posted by Teon

Do you ever tought the tells points out a website, you buy gils directly on the website, a player (the player's name giving money is usually sent via mail, after your purchase, organizing the meeting, obiouvsly not the same player who sent you the message, that's a bot) gives you the money bough, noone talks?
What tells are you talking about lol :D

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Moogle Mail requires friends list acceptance, the mail itself is also tracked, as well as additions and removals to your friends list.

So, if you add someone to your friends list, receive a large sum of gil from them Via Moogle Mail, and then remove them, that's going to be flagged as suspicious activity.

I can just think of 1 thing:
We pay ~10€/month and afaik there are 1,5 million players -> 15 million €/month.
Why isn't there any money to invest on observing RMT activities.

• Why not additionally involve the players? -> add an option to report RMTs who /tell or /shout. If like 3-5 independant players report a RMT this way -> automatically instantly block all forms of communication for that player except /p and /l.

• You can only /tell to 3 different Players within 15 seconds. Exceptations are Friendlist and LS/FC Fellows. A single Shout can only be executed once every 15 seconds. These limitations will give players enough time to report in the method described above.

• ONE employee for EVERY Server should be enough to go through all players who are reported this way in real-time and check the logs to see if the banning is justified.

• Transactions above a certain threshold are to be checked by these employees. And if many little transactions occur to a single players in a set amount of time ->check it too

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Originally Posted by Teon

Do you ever tought the tells points out a website, you buy gils directly on the website, a player (the player's name giving money is usually sent via mail, after your purchase, organizing the meeting, obiouvsly not the same player who sent you the message, that's a bot) gives you the money bough, noone talks?
What tells are you talking about lol :D

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Unlike some, I don't actually know from experience how RMT transactions work, but I don't see how it is possible to break the chain in a way that SE can't follow it. RMT barkers and bots are the people that players see and hear and that annoy the heck out of us. But while it is probably true that RMT banker characters never actually talk in game, they must receive their gil from hacked accounts, or from their bots, or from otherwise legit players who freelance selling gil to RMTs. SE should be able to detect this gil flowing into them as well as the gil flowing out to gil buyers. I'm assuming SE can log in-game trading directly between characters. The ones I most want perma-baned are the buyers because without them the whole web unravels.

That said, it drives me crazy all the tell spams and the obvious and oft-reported bots that are allowed to persist in-game for weeks or even months on end. The latter in particular not only disrupts play but discourages players from going through the not-quick process necessary for reporting RMT activity.

It's simple really. The RMT has to send you a tell in order to get you to meet them somewhere... RMT's and bots are probably well known to SE by this point. But a player to player exchange of 6 Million gil or more.... That's not being friendly, that's an RMT. Not handing one of my FC members 6 million gil just cause I can.

Also just to educate some of you, RMT isn't banned instantly because that will spook the sellers. Just like big police operations don't go catching small time crooks one at a time but catch them in one big fell swoop.

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

Also just to educate some of you, RMT isn't banned instantly because that will spook the sellers. Just like big police operations don't go catching small time crooks one at a time but catch them in one big fell swoop.

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Not to mention that they want to ban the buyers as well. Instabanning the sellers means they won't get the buyers.

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

Also just to educate some of you, RMT isn't banned instantly because that will spook the sellers. Just like big police operations don't go catching small time crooks one at a time but catch them in one big fell swoop.

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Except this doesn't happen. They manage to do blanket bans of spammers and players who get hacked (hurting some legitimate players in the process). The real rmt and real players who cheat by botting are not getting punished at all. After 3 months of reporting the same people I give up, SE can do their own job. Whats worse, I see some of the main RMT characters from 1.0 launch hanging around limsa again, the gil holders/traders. SE CSI is doing a great job of tracking these "crooks" right.

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Originally Posted by Sove92

Not to mention that they want to ban the buyers as well. Instabanning the sellers means they won't get the buyers.

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Im guessing they don't even ban people for buying gil, suspension at most until repeated offenses.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Moogle Mail requires friends list acceptance, the mail itself is also tracked, as well as additions and removals to your friends list.

So, if you add someone to your friends list, receive a large sum of gil from them Via Moogle Mail, and then remove them, that's going to be flagged as suspicious activity.

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Mail? :confused: You just meet physically the player giving you out what you bought, you give him a materia 2 for example or an item or just a "honest materia melding", he gives you the amount you bought. A smart customer don't buy 6 mil gils, risking. 2 millions per weeks for example, and you're set :)

Also, do you truly want me to explain the exact chain of RMT>real player giving money to the customer> safe transaction? I tought it was well know from years.. :p
I give you a tip: FC banks works well

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Originally Posted by Rune_Crystalblade

It's simple really. The RMT has to send you a tell in order to get you to meet them somewhere... RMT's and bots are probably well known to SE by this point. But a player to player exchange of 6 Million gil or more.... That's not being friendly, that's an RMT. Not handing one of my FC members 6 million gil just cause I can.

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Curious. I have a friend, a girl, who bough 1.5 mil gil 3 weeks ago, she's free as a bird, rich. Something wrong here :) Tip again: meeting is organized with emails, outside of the game.

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Originally Posted by Sub-Xero

The difference between real life criminals and RMT is that it's a hell of a lot easier to actually catch and "punish" RMT. It's easier and yet they still mess around for weeks and/or months before doing anything IF they do anything at all. There is no legitimate reason why bots/hackers (which are primarily RMT) should not be INSTANTANEOUSLY banned. Teleporting all over the place and mining/gathering underground?... Yeah, you should be insta-banned.

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I still dream the day RMT will be considered criminals, going straight to the jail for years, internet international laws. Amazing dream huh? :)

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Originally Posted by Rune_Crystalblade

Maybe for now but it won't last. Besides, in the grand scheme of things, especially in light of housing, SE probably won't investigate the smaller amounts, and target large amounts (3M+ probably) for the time being. I've known very few people who bought gil and got away with it for long. Maybe she got lucky

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Ye, maybe. A guy from the FC where she moved now ( she transferred on a new server) suggested that website to her, most of them from that FC bough million gils for housing, , now they are waiting 2.1, and erm, that house will not be seized hehe :D

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

Also just to educate some of you, RMT isn't banned instantly because that will spook the sellers. Just like big police operations don't go catching small time crooks one at a time but catch them in one big fell swoop.

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The difference between real life criminals and RMT is that it's a hell of a lot easier to actually catch and "punish" RMT. It's easier and yet they still mess around for weeks and/or months before doing anything IF they do anything at all. There is no legitimate reason why bots/hackers (which are primarily RMT) should not be INSTANTANEOUSLY banned. Teleporting all over the place and mining/gathering underground?... Yeah, you should be insta-banned.

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Originally Posted by Teon

Mail? :confused: You just meet physically the player giving you out what you bought. A smart customer don't buy 6 mil gils, risking. 2 millions per weeks for example, and you're set :)

Also, do you truly want me to explain the exact chain of RMT>real player giving money to the customer> safe transaction? I tought it was well know from years.. :p
I give you a tip: FC banks works well




Curious. I have a friend, a girl, who bough 1.5 mil gil 3 weeks ago, she's free as a bird, rich. Something wrong here :)

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Maybe for now but it won't last. Besides, in the grand scheme of things, especially in light of housing, SE probably won't investigate the smaller amounts, and target large amounts (3M+ probably) for the time being. I've known very few people who bought gil and got away with it for long. Maybe she got lucky

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Originally Posted by Lafiele

Also just to educate some of you, RMT isn't banned instantly because that will spook the sellers. Just like big police operations don't go catching small time crooks one at a time but catch them in one big fell swoop.

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The big swoop doesn't seem effective at all and by the time they finally get to banning the botters, they already done their dmg to the economy and the cycle repeats.

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Originally Posted by Teon

Curious. I have a friend, a girl, who bough 1.5 mil gil 3 weeks ago, she's free as a bird, rich. Something wrong here :) Tip again: meeting is organized with emails, outside of the game.

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I have a rl friend who bought gil also. Of course im still friends with him out of game. But I removed him from my FC and wont play with him.. because I don't play with cheaters. Its not even about taking the game too serious, its about not being a hypocrite and telling the fc you will be kicked for buying gil and letting a cheater stay because I know him out of game.

You friend, who is a girl, should be shunned in game lol.

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Originally Posted by Raagnar

I have a rl friend who bought gil also. Of course im still friends with him out of game. But I removed him from my FC and wont play with him.. because I don't play with cheaters. Its not even about taking the game too serious, its about not being a hypocrite and telling the fc you will be kicked for buying gil and letting a cheater stay because I know him out of game.

You friend, who is a girl, should be shunned in game lol.

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Haha. Good for her she moved out, i have the same attitude of yours, dealing with cheaters/exploiters :)

Looking at the amount of botters in my server who are reported and not banned I won't be amazed at how RMT are not banned. So I am quite sure the housing prices are set according to botters and rmt. (Sorry SE)

When are you guys gonna come to the realization that SE is in business with the RMT.