TO DEVELOPER please read this

Dear Devs,
i know,you dont look at NA forums very often,maybe you look at but in 4 month i seen about 2 or 3 dev posts so i think you prefere follow only japanese sections..it can be understood because you effectively are japanese so you dont need to practice with a foreing language.


The purpose of this post is to try to have a feedback from you about big nerf for SMN and BLM, Bards are nerfed too but you spent some words in live letters to explain why (im not talking about if its right or not just talking about facts)
Yes,im a SMN ad as all other and all other BLM we had a cold shower watching at patch notes,never talked about changes on our class,so i expected just some minor fix like cooldowns broken of ifrit or some stupid but handy things...
YOU have to understand that dont say anything about those BIG nerfs in letter,and just talking about improvments to class house dung and DONT SAY ANYTHING about the most important nerfs of the patch will make us VERY hungry!

IM NOT HERE FOR FLAME and i invite my dear forum friends to do the same,there are tons of other post where we can flame,try to keep this discussion civil and try to keetp in at top hoping some developer who know english see and report our questions or maybe give us some answers



SO DEVELOPERS the only thing WE are all asking is to KNOW WHY u made those changes,i think you dont need a list of what is screwed up,there are tons of post in jap forum too i think,but we want to know it! im smn,but i want to know for BLM too because we are so so many! and all classes are related to each other to complete high end dung like bahamut



I would like you to know that we are not here to say "DEV DO WHAT WE WANT " no,we ALL understand that the game is YOURS and you can do what YOU whant with YOUR things, but ,as summoner, i can say only one thing,me like most of other play since beta and decided to focus on a single class instead of levelling theme all like most other player,we spent 4 month grinding myth when instance servers was broken,we losed weeks for server problems (yes im gratefull for extra free days you did it well) this all for our summoner that is the most complex and brain requiring class because of the high number of skill you have to use costantly,the same reason its for BLM ,yes its an easier class to play, but has his role too...i dont think we need to remember that USUALLY low armored class are higher in dps compared on complexity to play



SO WE WILL ACCEPT EVERY EXPLANATION BUT PLEASE GIVE US ONE! YOU CAN DO WHAT YOU WANT WITH YOUR GAME BUT YOU HAVE PPL WHO PAY FOR THIS GAME AND WANTS SOME FEEDBACK,THEN WE WILL DECIDE IF STILL WANT TO PLAY SMN\BLM\BRD\DRG, AND PPL LIKE ME WHO DONT WANT PLAY MULTIPLE CLASS WILL BE A LITTLE PISSED OFF AND WILL DECIDE BY HIMSELF WHAT TO DO,CHANGE CLASS OR CHANGE GAME


yes i know that you dev will never answer to this post,im trying to have a pacific conversation,so try to help us to understand

Expecting a Dev to post here explaining why is like expecting people to dodge in duty finder Titan HM.

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Originally Posted by Hocchi

Expecting a Dev to post here explaining why is like expecting people to dodge in duty finder Titan HM.

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i know that :( but im looking at half full glass of water,sometime you can find some good dodgers in duty :) hehehe


for all other class,i know my post was most "summoner side" but i have only smn and can do example only for that,please forgive me :) i think is understeandable

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Originally Posted by Hocchi

Expecting a Dev to post here explaining why is like expecting people to dodge in duty finder Titan HM.

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I actually beat Titan in the DF yesterday. Clapped IRL, miracles do happen.

On topic, I think the reason everyone is reacting so badly to SMN changes is because there was no warning. WAR, DRG, MNK, BRD - we all knew they were getting changes, and there were even some mentions of BLM. But was it ever hinted anywhere that SMN would be adjusted at all, let alone this much? With how specifically they talked about BRD and its crossclass skills, changing Thunder and Blizzard II without warning seems extra sudden. It's the kind of thing that needs explanation, like how they told us the reasoning behind BRD changes.

I just wish we would get regular freeze since we lost thunder.

Seems like by removing thunder they lowered the skill cap of the SMN class, and lowered the reward for playing it well. Sad all round, as I have a SMN and a BLM in my group. Nerf to BRD dmg, making the only buffed DPS myself. No pressure, right?

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Originally Posted by xardus

Dear Devs,
i know,you dont look at NA forums very often,maybe you look at but in 4 month i seen about 2 or 3 dev posts

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Uhh, aside from weekends (when they're off) they post almost everyday, sometimes multiple times a day across the NA forums. Dunno where you've been reading but it's in the wrong areas.

All the range nerfs, are pvp balancing.. but while they did it for pvp purposes, they screwed up pve.. and THIS is exactly what people were afraid of when they were adding pvp to this game. Would they break pve and hurt pve to try and balance pvp.

As of right now, I don't see a reason to be a SUM in pvp.

IF I TYPE IN ALL CAPS MY MESSAGE WILL GET THROUGH FOR SURE.

I know it's too much to ask for people to actually try something before freaking out...
~sigh~

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Originally Posted by AmandaHuggenkiss

IF I TYPE IN ALL CAPS MY MESSAGE WILL GET THROUGH FOR SURE.

I know it's too much to ask for people to actually try something before freaking out...
~sigh~

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caps its for a look feeling,gives relevance on somethings instead of other,anyway we are not here for flame,you are in wrong post,the reason of this one is to ask information because every other nerf\buff has one in live letter but not this
i repeat there are other post to spam flames ,please try to dont go OT posting here all class problem and so on,its full of other post for it

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Originally Posted by Hiroradius

All the range nerfs, are pvp balancing.. but while they did it for pvp purposes, they screwed up pve.. and THIS is exactly what people were afraid of when they were adding pvp to this game. Would they break pve and hurt pve to try and balance pvp.

As of right now, I don't see a reason to be a SUM in pvp.

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that is the reason, and that is why I always hated PVE/PVP games. They can never seem to truly balance out the two. GW2 is best I have seen so far with adjusting abilities when you pvp rather then just nerfing for both. I have no clue why more devs do not follow this.

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Originally Posted by Yuichi

that is the reason, and that is why I always hated PVE/PVP games. They can never seem to truly balance out the two. GW2 is best I have seen so far with adjusting abilities when you pvp rather then just nerfing for both. I have no clue why more devs do not follow this.

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im totally agree,but i think if they wanted us just dont use thunder in pvp,they could remove only for pvp,so there should be other reasons

i know im full of drugs but i still hope that in one of those "????????????" missions without name to dont spoiler (as they said in letter) there will be a new pet or something new for us and blm

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Originally Posted by xardus

im totally agree,but i think if they wanted us just dont use thunder in pvp,they could remove only for pvp,so there should be other reasons

i know im full of drugs but i still hope that in one of those "????????????" missions without name to dont spoiler (as they said in letter) there will be a new pet or something new for us and blm

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There will. Just not in 2.1. As for SMN in PVP, with any direct damage interrupting spells, Garuda just became a house.

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Originally Posted by AshTS

There will. Just not in 2.1. As for SMN in PVP, with any direct damage interrupting spells, Garuda just became a house.

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i dont know,i think i will not use garuda in PVP ,in very short fights ifrit has bigger dps,and bigger resistance in fights,everything depends on pvp mechs,im thinking to use titan for his high hp and defence,with spur\rouse has a decent dps output and a damage reflect that can be usefull,we have to test pvp we cant say anything,we also have new pvp spells to understand well

i didnt remember a thing,if pvp spells can be used only in pvp or there are some that can be used outside? (that can be the answer of nerfs to smn and blm)

With all the threads and people mouthing off about 'why take a melee when you can take a ranged class', you do realize this was bound to happen right? People kinda shot themselves in the foot.

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Originally Posted by Ronzeru

With all the threads and people mouthing off about 'why take a melee when you can take a ranged class', you do realize this was bound to happen right? People kinda shot themselves in the foot.

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usually in pug is preferred take a ranged just because most of melee are not good at avoiding aoe,for example in ads,you can stun and is very usefull,but you still have to avoid things and most melee dps you have to admit,stay in their position taking all dmgs

EDIT : just want to correct me,i dont mean that melee dps are idiots hehehehe but when u look for random pug you can find everything,isnt easy avaoid so much player wich are new to their class play it very bad

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Originally Posted by xardus

usually in pug is preferred take a ranged just because most of melee are not good at avoiding aoe,for example in ads,you can stun and is very usefull,but you still have to avoid things and most melee dps you have to admit,stay in their position taking all dmgs

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Your attitude is why ranged classes got nerfed. A lot of bosses do instant aoe casts without warning. Chain lightning and random aoe attacks from clockwork knights for instance. That damage is unavoidable for melee dps and has nothing to do with skills from the player. What you considered a "bad dps", is in reality the game mechanics that is heavily flavored towards ranged dps and highly biased towards close range melees.

Given how unbalanced the game was, even a 4 year old kid could have told you what patch 2.1 was going to do ranged dps. But ofc, living in a state of denial meant that 90% of the casters did not see the 2.1 nerf coming...

It was clear as night and day to everyone else that change was coming. I have never seen a wp speedrun where people asked for a melee dps. In fact, you have people shouting for 2 brds for coil even though you only need 1 bard at most. And there is only room for 1 token melee dps (just for the LB). If it wasnt for the LB, most groups would rather have 4 ranged dps and no melee at all. When you have things that are this skewed, you know they are going to change it.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Your attitude is why ranged classes got nerfed. A lot of bosses do instant aoe casts without warning. Chain lightning and random aoe attacks from clockwork knights for instance. That damage is unavoidable for melee dps and has nothing to do with skills from the player. What you considered a "bad dps", is in reality the game mechanics that is heavily flavored towards ranged dps and highly biased towards close range melees.

Given how unbalanced the game was, even a 4 year old kid could have told you what patch 2.1 was going to do ranged dps. But ofc, living in a state of denial meant that 90% of the casters did not see the 2.1 nerf coming...
It was clear as night and day to everyone else that change was coming. I have never seen a wp speedrun where people asked for a melee dps. In fact, you have people shouting for 2 brds for coil even though you only need 1 bard at most. And there is only room for 1 token melee dps (just for the LB). If it wasnt for the LB, most groups would rather have 4 ranged dps and no melee at all. When you have things that are this skewed, you know they are going to change it.

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i can be agree with you,and im in most of things,but your examples dosnt work really good for me,just because with my fc we often use a monk for silencing in t1,t2 is different,for allagan rots is more handle have 6 caster for debuff managing,it can be done in 5 but there are lots of not good player\first timers who dont watch video so its easier use 6x tactic,i totally agree with melee buff dmg,but for another reason
melee when have to avoid aoe has to stop their dps (well blm has too but for ranged isnt necessary come back to boss so less moving time) and then they need an higer dps output

im not agree about melee dps has to be stronger in dps at every costs,melee has the strong point of higher armor than casters,dont avoid an aoe in most cases take 50% of you hp,for a caster it takes about 80%hp ,melee dps has a very strong point that is stun\silence (dont know if dragoon has both correct me if im wrong) wich makes u essential in most boss fights,if you are a good player you will always find a group,you will make friends who look for you when has to build a run and so on, i also have a small monk im finishing to equip for coil,what i can see doing primals is that without 2.1buff on titan i do a little lower dps than with my summoner with r+1 and half myth equip,and (at least for me) is much easier optimise your dps than a summoner,i didnt play blm so i cant say nothing in that way but think is much easier optimise dps than smn

anyway my attidude is "give me an explanation" ranged nerf is neccessary for pvp but i dont understand why is necessary for pve,just with melee buffs they are on same level,not needed to lower dmg,so they should have thinked a lot before doing,for bard gived an explanation in live letter,but for smn\blm they passed throug forgetting it completely

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

*post*

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Here's the thing. Ranged DPS is still going to be preferred. While melee is more viable now since you all have been buffed (especially monks), most boss mechanics are still melee centric, and rather than having to deal with the chance that people will be able to avoid said mechanic, the safe bet will always be to take ranged. The true ideal fix to this situation would be to incorporate more ranged boss mechanics to force all classes to deal with such. Also, 2.1 nerf was only towards bards as far as we knew. It's also cuz the dev say things like: "As I mentioned during the previous LIVE letter, there are a lot of cases where melee combos and chains are interrupted making burst DPS difficult, so dragoon and monk will be receiving roughly a 10% increase in damage per second. Rather than reducing the effectiveness of other classes, we will be making adjustments to increase certain elements this time."

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Originally Posted by PriyaJugulataris

post."

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Agreed. It is just my hunch, but I believe game mechanics may have changed a bit to where bosses and dungeons deal more attacks against ranged dps. They said something about bard doing more damage the further away they are. This would only make any sense if the bosses now target long distance fighters.

Dont quote me on this. We would have to wait till tomorrow to test things out.

@xardus melee dps has to be in close range (ie taking high risks) while ranged dps have full freedom of movement, no stance requirements and virtually take no risks at all. This is the reason why melee dps must have higher dps. With high risks should come high rewards. Low risks, low rewards. There is no point in playing melee if they do not fix this.

Also, Xard, the higher DPS doesn't mean higher overall. We ranged have more uptime then melee due to them having to dodge boss mechanics. As such, we have more time typically to do full DPS. Are there gonna be some fights in which they beat us? Yeah. Are there gonna fights where we beat them? Yeah. Ranged holds banquet on AoE right now summoner DPS while affected by the nerf and I'm rather pissed about, still is gonna be up there on most instances.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

Agreed. It is just my hunch, but I believe game mechanics may have changed a bit to where bosses and dungeons deal more attacks against ranged dps. They said something about bard doing more damage the further away they are. This would only make any sense if the bosses now target long distance fighters.

Dont quote me on this. We would have to wait till tomorrow to test things out.

@xardus melee dps has to be in close range (ie taking high risks) while ranged dps have full freedom of movement, no stance requirements and virtually take no risks at all. This is the reason why melee dps must have higher dps. With high risks should come high rewards. Low risks, low rewards. There is no point in playing melee if they do not fix this.

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just an example,titan stomps (argh i dont remember skill name atm hehe) in p5 any ranged is reduced at 10% hp,melee has about 50,its full of cases where caster has to move costantly,i think if you play one you will understand better,i have a monk too but didnt play so much untill 1 week ago,and i found it easier than summoner,maybe i didnt know and im pro with melee but i always did ranged class in mmo with greater results hehe and usually ranged class are the massive dps but easier to play and melee are much difficult but when managed correctly do greater dmg,are different mechanics but that how all mmo\paper rpg works usually,everyone has his strong side in specific situation,now those balance is broken at least for smn (the only i can talk with knowledge)
i still want to test on first person this changes,paper maths are not always the same as real thing but there is something strange in this loss of dps,time will say but we really like an explanation like for bard nerf (wich i remember is considered a support class and not a pure dps class like blm\smn)
ppl are also pissed off for summoner because has some microbug in pets which are not considered by dev,if they fix something with this nerf let ppl take it easier and dont react as a crowd of demons :D

@PriyaJugulataris : im agree that our dps will still be good but you have to admit that difficult to sustain smn dps is very high,not because of mech skills but because we have many many skills to check costantly,dots duration,aetherflow recast,fester recast and SF wich takes you to press skill button and then drag to mob and then press wich take u a little less than 1 second,without thunder will be easier but not so much,our natural loss of dps with phase change of some boss like primals wich jump vanishing dot time or continuos moving to avoid aoe (yes we ranged have aoe to avoid too ppl) where you loose ur refresh rotation and cant have all of theme up,melee has a more "quick" dps (well not for blm i suppose) but summoner has a playstile completely different of any other class in the game,so cant be generalised nerfed as a normal caster like blm is

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Originally Posted by xardus

post

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There is no noticable difference between Brd and Mnk hp. And nothing that cant be overcome with vit materia melds. Your argument is weak. There is nothing you cant overcome with some gear swapping. Just swapping 1 acessory for a tank accessory, instantly gave my SCH 200+ hp for Titan.

Knowing the fight, is 90% of Titan done.

The biggest difference between melee and mages in Titan is positioning. I have to be close to Titan to attack. I have to avoid plumes and run back to the same area EVERYTIME. I lose dps when Titan jumps. I lose dps when bombs fall. I lose dps when I miss my rotation. As a ranged dps, I can attack from the left, from the right, from the back, from the front.

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Originally Posted by Truedragon

There is no noticable difference between Brd and Mnk hp. And nothing that cant be overcome with vit materia melds. Your argument is weak. There is nothing you cant overcome with some gear swapping. Just swapping 1 acessory for a tank accessory, instantly gave my SCH 200+ hp for Titan.

Knowing the fight, is 90% of Titan done.

The biggest difference between melee and mages in Titan is positioning. I have to be close to Titan to attack. I have to avoid plumes and run back to the same area EVERYTIME. I lose dps when Titan jumps. I lose dps when bombs fall. I lose dps when I miss my rotation. As a ranged dps, I can attack from the left, from the right, from the back, from the front.

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about armor i was talking about caster,bard isnt a caster :) but is a support class so cant compare with a full dps class

i took titan in example just because with monk i didnt to other higher things still have to take relic,but really try to grow up a summoner,you will understand better what we have to do to maintain our dps,and we have our looses too,our skill has a cast time,if u have to avoid you loose it,if u have to avoid when your dots are expiring have a very very big loss of dps (almost 70%) and take 10 seconds to recast all dots,you are missing the point that IM AGREE with melee buff,but not agree in caster nerf (or at least without an explanation) blm is very easy to play,i dont know hi end cos i only have at 26 but gives an idea,id like you exp a smn and try it,its very very funny much more monk (my pure opinion) but now i must focus on my monk because i need another class where i can go if smn isnt requested for coil

EDIT : i forget to say,taking titan in example,when he jump our dot dsnt dmg him,but countdown is still in progress and all dots expires before he can be targetted again