Let's talk about 2.1 freeze

Freeze was buffed to 100 potency and cast time reduced to 3.0. Blizzard II has had its potency dropped from 100 to 20 (can't remember).

Now...do we have a use for freeze now since it does more damage? Is there a place for it in some kind of rotation of ours?

Let's brainstorm and see if this is a good or bad thing and why?

Blizzard II 100->50 potency

I'm not sure if it's helpful now (in 2.1) but I really don't think it is. Now it does as much damage as our gimped scathe (Why even nerf scathe lol) but 3sec cast time? HMMMMMMMMMMMM I don't think it's alot more useful than it is now.

Does it even work as intended in it's description? It says in the spell description that it covers an area in ice and does dmg with a potency of 20 and binds enemies who enter... but it doesn't. Once cast, it does nothing else... it doesn't place ice on the ground, it does a burst of ice in the air and binds anything in the radius for 15 secs... So in effect that's all it is, a 3 sec cast time minor hit with a 15 bind on it. Situationally useful, but not worth introducing into a rotation.

Freeze will basically replace Blizzard II for some AOE rotation, with an extra 1 second cast time. It's a slight nerf to our AOE damage, not including double flare.

Honestly, it's not as bad in comparison to Summoner but still blah.

I feel it won't add anything to blm besides a few seconds of wasting time not doing damage. You have to aim freeze, this wastes time.

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Originally Posted by Pinworms

Freeze was buffed to 100 potency and cast time reduced to 3.0. Blizzard II has had its potency dropped from 100 to 20 (can't remember).

Now...do we have a use for freeze now since it does more damage? Is there a place for it in some kind of rotation of ours?

Let's brainstorm and see if this is a good or bad thing and why?

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It will take the place of Blizzard II in our AoE rotation.
It is 0.5s longer than Blizzard II and does 100 damage like Blizzard II does on live.
It is ranged but has to be targeted (this should add little time time overall, once you're accustomed to manually targeted casts).

Blizzard II is also cross classed now, so Freeze will be unique to BLM.
The Bind effect is marginally beneficial.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

It will take the place of Blizzard II in our AoE rotation.
It is 0.5s longer than Blizzard II and does 100 damage like Blizzard II does on live.
It is ranged but has to be targeted (this should add little time time overall, once you're accustomed to manually targeted casts).

Blizzard II is also cross classed now, so Freeze will be unique to BLM.
The Bind effect is marginally beneficial.

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It's 1 second longer, not .5 seconds. Unless you're including the GCD, but you might also want to consider the chance of interruption.

As for the placement part, I wasnt even thinking about that.

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Originally Posted by RegnumMagik

It's 1 second longer, not .5 seconds. Unless you're including the GCD, but you might also want to consider the chance of interruption.

As for the placement part, I wasnt even thinking about that.

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Yes, Blizzard II's cast is 2s but it's cooldown is 2.5s. Also, the gcd is 2.5s so you're never going go below that (well with spell speed, that affects everything universally).
So essentially the time differenc is 0.5s.
You are right about a larger inherent chance of interruption but also consider that you are in less danger of this because it is actually a ranged ability *and* a bind.
I think it's pretty safe for what it is.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Yes, Blizzard II's cast is 2s but it's cooldown is 2.5s. Also, the gcd is 2.5s so you're never going go below that (well with spell speed, that affects everything universally).
So essentially the time differenc is 0.5s.
You are right about a larger inherent chance of interruption but also consider that you are in less danger of this because it is actually a ranged ability *and* a bind.
I think it's pretty safe for what it is.

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In a perfect scenario that would stay true, but not so much in a AOE situation. Especially with a paladin.

I dunno it might be useful in turn 4 maybe phase 5? I never really included blizzard II in my AOE rotation since I rarely stood in the middle of the mobs being dps down in normal situations. I used blizzard III to get my mana back. Yeah I'm sad on the changes to our AOE. I'm wondering how it will affect T4 phase 4 rooks spider drops.

I think it's definitely useful as freeze now replaces ThunderII in AOE rotation! Same cast time with aoe effect is very nice! I think this is what SE intended it to be used.

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Originally Posted by P_Wing

I think it's definitely useful as freeze now replaces ThunderII in AOE rotation! Same cast time with aoe effect is very nice! I think this is what SE intended it to be used.

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pretty sure you meant blizzard II. but anyway looking at freeze it was intended to be a crowd control skill. and now it's a damage skill? you could say the same about blizzard II so far but it only had a 4s bind before dimishing returns which wasn't really helpful to begin with.

Wondering how the actual time it takes to place the aoe marker to cast it will affect its usefulness in a rotation. Can't say I've used it often before now but it seems to me it will be slower than just the cast time suggests.

unless they make tweak options to targetting circle options,maybe pop circle nder current target,placing the circle will take a lot of time,even more for the ones using ps3 controller

Some speculation about the comments about the time required to target Freeze, you could shave this time drastically if you treated it like Bliz2 and just stood in melee with your camera pointed down and just click asap. Might be worth trying.

The problems the cast time. Assuming the f3>f>transpose rotation, it will take a second longer for each flare to come out. It's still the best AOE rotation, but a straight nerf to the damage.

Although on the plus side, you don't have to be in melee range for it anymore.

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Originally Posted by Starkbeaumont

pretty sure you meant blizzard II. but anyway looking at freeze it was intended to be a crowd control skill. and now it's a damage skill? you could say the same about blizzard II so far but it only had a 4s bind before dimishing returns which wasn't really helpful to begin with.

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I meant freeze. Yeah I just noticed that it's quite the same as the old Blizzard2, but I didn't use Bliz2 in the rotation before because you have to stand close to enemies to do that. Now freeze is available and can be casted from faraway so it should be better.

Maybe like:
Single target: Fire3 -> Fire . . . -> Blizzard 3 -> Thunder 2 -> Fire 3
Multi target: Fire3 -> Fire2 . . . -> Blizzard 3 -> Freeze -> Fire 3

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Originally Posted by P_Wing

Maybe like:
Single target: Fire3 -> Fire . . . -> Blizzard 3 -> Thunder 2 -> Fire 3
Multi target: Fire3 -> Fire2 . . . -> Blizzard 3 -> Freeze -> Fire 3

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For Multi, Fire2 is always bad. The Fire3>Flare>transpose>Bliz rotation puts out a lot more DPS, but you had to be in melee range. With the changes, you'll be able to cast Flare/Freeze from range so, while the damage will be a little lower, it's still miles ahead of Fire2 and now without the vulnerability of being in melee range.

For single, I know there's murmuring on some forums that they are changing the tick mechanics so you must stay in UI for at LEAST 6 seconds to get both ticks. If they do that, Thunder1>Scathe>Fire3 will replace Thunder 2 in the UI phase. But who knows if that's what's happening yet.

Not sure why you would use Scathe as a filler over B1, especially with Scathe going down to 100 potency... Unless you HAVE to move at that moment.

If we can still get the cast time reduction from UI3 and AF3 for 2 casts if done correctly, then wouldnt the ideal regen rotation be: B3 from AF3 -> Quick B3 having just transitioned to UI3 -> Thunder 2 or 3 -> F3.

Freeze will never be used in an aoe rotation until it grants Umbral 3, currently it only removes AF3 OR Grants UI3.

Aoe rotation will either stay as it is, or move to Fire3>Flare>Transpose>Blizz3>repeat.

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Not sure why you would use Scathe as a filler over B1, especially with Scathe going down to 100 potency... Unless you HAVE to move at that moment.

If we can still get the cast time reduction from UI3 and AF3 for 2 casts if done correctly, then wouldnt the ideal regen rotation be: B3 from AF3 -> Quick B3 having just transitioned to UI3 -> Thunder 2 or 3 -> F3.

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You won't have the MP to cast a second B3 at full MP cost right after changing attunements (the cast will cancel as soon as you go into UI3 and the manacost goes to normal).

Well you would need to end your fire cycle with 398 MP to be able to do a B3 for 79 mana, and another one for 319 mana. It is cheaper to cast a 2nd B3 than a T2, and you can just use T2 right after you used your 2nd B3, assuming you get the tick, which you should. Then F3 right after T2.

All we can do is wait an see for now. I am more concerned about me naturally having only 239 PIE, so I dont have enough mana for a "proper" 5 F1 rotation...

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Originally Posted by Kenji1134

Well you would need to end your fire cycle with 398 MP to be able to do a B3 for 79 mana, and another one for 319 mana. It is cheaper to cast a 2nd B3 than a T2, and you can just use T2 right after you used your 2nd B3, assuming you get the tick, which you should. Then F3 right after T2.

All we can do is wait an see for now. I am more concerned about me naturally having only 239 PIE, so I dont have enough mana for a "proper" 5 F1 rotation...

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Well B3 also runs you 1s over your GCD. Besides, as far as MP goes, Thunder I runs about even with Thunder 2 (thunder 2 is better with more gear, but the difference is .1%, less than a point of Int) and thunder>Scathe is even to or better than thunder2 alone.