I think I get it

The reason many are upset is that housing isn't available day one.

This is a gross simplification, yes. But stay tuned. If MMOs are long term affairs (i.e. I played FFXI for 7 years). And If MMOs are to have long term goals (i.e. I've been collecting pieces of a legendary weapon for months). Then some readers might be puzzled as to why tables are being flipped at housing. I think this is because many anticipated a purchase on day one. Speaking from empathy, I can understand the frustration at being denied a day one purchase.

If one were to browse these forums you might pick up on the desire for some players to have a long term goal. Some players of old called for Relic weapons to take as long as they did "back in the day". Under that model, those that achieved their weapons loved the crap of them, those that didn't want to put in the time passed it all together. I propose that the same will be said of those who obtain a house in this game.

Or for some people, housing isn't available at all without a mindless gil grind.

To some obtaining that much gil is a nigh impossible goal there just isn't alot of ways to actually accumulate gil in the game right now especially on the servers wich require much higher purchase costs.

4m? yeah thats understandable. 40m? sorry...

I don't care about housing but If I'm going to fork over hundreds of millions of gill for a large house. That crap better be a 20,000 square foot mansion.

Housing is how XIs Relic weapons were way back; a whole group works towards one. Except now, instead of a single person getting the reward, everyone gets a house. Pretty good system in my opinion, and that's only for the largest houses, small houses are still pretty damn cheap for a group to achieve. People just seem to be complaining that they can't get their large house next week, same "problem" with every other piece of content; people want the rewards instantly. If large housing cost as much as small housing is planned to, people would be done with housing in a matter of weeks...

I mean Christ, the most expensive small house is 50M, and that'll drop every 6 hours already. How many runs of a dungeon is that exactly? A Free Company of 4 people can knock that out in less than 500 runs, though why anyone would only do dungeons for Gil is beyond me... Levequests generate far more Gil, Treasure Hunts will generate Gil, Duty Roulette generates Gil. There are plenty of ways for people to go about working towards that Gil, such a shame you have to actually play the game to get something like housing, I know.

The problem is that the house should not be a long term goal by itself. What should be a long term goal is the furniture, decoration and expansions. Struggling for months just to buy it just takes all the fun away.

Think about Skyrim housing. It's easy to buy a house, but I could spend a very long time hunting for cool stuff to put inside: books, statues, armor, etc.

I mean on one hand, you have players clamoring for hard content in order to make memories (bring back mob trains; lose tethering; make zones punishing). Where are those voices now?

People have every right to be upset. I think like 3 of the live letters showcased housing and they put a lot of effort into hyping everyone up for it and then this.

Only SE could make endgame raids so casual and make should-be casual content like housing so extremely hardcore. I honestly see the population taking a swift nosedive unless they change their mind before the patch hits, and even then they're bound to lose people because of this.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

I mean on one hand, you have players clamoring for hard content in order to make memories (bring back mob trains; lose tethering; make zones punishing). Where are those voices now?

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Hardcores want hard content that challenges them and keeps them busy. There's nothing challenging about saving 625M gil, it's just f'n stupid.

Housing should be casual content. Everyone should be able to get in on it. It's suppose to help you relax in the game, not stress you out and get you pissed off.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

I think this is because many anticipated a purchase on day one.

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No. It's because I don't see my FC ever having the money to make this purchase. And I'm pretty sure this is a solid indication of how out of reach single-player housing will be.

I don't appreciate being lied to that's what really gets me.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

The reason many are upset is that housing isn't available day one.

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Not on Week 1, not on Month 1, not on Year 1; This goes for certain Servers since the Prices are hilarious.

Small 20,000,000 21,250,000 22,500,000 23,750,000 25,000,000
Medium 75,000,000 79,687,500 84,375,000 89,062,500 93,750,000
Large 250,000,000 265,625,000 281,250,000 296,875,000 312,500,000


This is my Server and to be honest, i was expecting arounf 60-80 Mil for a Large House in the WORST Case, but 250 Mil? Sorry, let aside that SE cut the gil from 1.0 People by 1/10, this prices are not going to work out. I am not seeing many FC's spending 20 Mil on a Small House, which is similiar to the Inn-Room in Size.

If SE does with the Prices, what they did with our Gil; 1/10... then i will consider getting one, but for now... one of the biggest features i was looking forward is done for me. I am not spending 24/7 farming Gil to MAYBE ... really MAYBE buy a Large House somewhere around next Years Christmas.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

This is a gross simplification, yes. But stay tuned. If MMOs are long term affairs (i.e. I played FFXI for 7 years). And If MMOs are to have long term goals (i.e. I've been collecting pieces of a legendary weapon for months). Then some readers might be puzzled as to why tables are being flipped at housing. I think this is because many anticipated a purchase on day one. Speaking from empathy, I can understand the frustration at being denied a day one purchase.

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I also did play FFXI for 7 Years and did achieve many longterm Goals.. so what? They did affect my Gameplay, while Housing is pure Cosmetic. And again.. this is not about day "day 1 purchase", it is about "year 1 purchase".

As far as gil it will have to be baby steps, a cooperative effort, or borne by the richest in the FC and coat tail ride for the rest. I hope SE moves the goal posts closer. But a part of me doesn't. If i have the chance to come across a legit FC house, I will know all sorts of (in-game) work went into that place. And I will respect it all the more.

I have seen housing in other mmos. It's so common that it hardly gets noticed by the average passersby. I want to be legitimately awed in this game by seeing what a FC can do when they come together (if its legit, but i know that i might never know).

And, heck, players might actually be attached to their FCs because they helped chip in to the House. I see so many people on my server that FC hop because of how the Fc handles endgame content. With housing we have a reason to stick it out.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

I mean Christ, the most expensive small house is 50M, and that'll drop every 6 hours already. How many runs of a dungeon is that exactly? A Free Company of 4 people can knock that out in less than 500 runs, though why anyone would only do dungeons for Gil is beyond me... Levequests generate far more Gil, Treasure Hunts will generate Gil, Duty Roulette generates Gil. There are plenty of ways for people to go about working towards that Gil, such a shame you have to actually play the game to get something like housing, I know.

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Are you really trying to say a 0.14% drop every 6 hrs means jack? not 1%, 0.14%, and it'll be capped out at 1/2 of the original price,

Also, dungeon by itself doesn't generate much gil at all, the primary income from dungeons are the philosophy items, whose value have already been in a nose-dive for awhile, due to the fact that many people have already finished gearing out DL/Relics, and have nothing to do with their philo other than to sell them. With the added pressure now to accumulate gil (and with CT gear incoming), it'll only increase the supply of philo items on the market, while simultaneusly gutting the demand for it (CT gear, high myth cap).

And if running leves for 500 gil each is your best idea on how to make 40mil... well, it would be my humble opinion that you have more than a few screws lose between the ears.

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Originally Posted by Nero

This is my Server and to be honest, i was expecting arounf 60-80 Mil for a Large House in the WORST Case, but 250 Mil?

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* The price will reduce a maximum of 360 times in 90 days and will will fall to half its starting price.

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Wait 90 days and it'll be 125M, still over your expected worst case, but much more reachable.

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Originally Posted by Aenarion

And if running leves for 500 gil each is your best idea on how to make 40mil... well, it would be my humble opinion that you have more than a few screws lose between the ears.

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No, my idea of how to make 40M is running Leves for 3k Gil each turn in... No wait, 9k Gil, since they're repeatable. Actually, that isn't how I intend to make Gil primarily, but yeah... Only bonus EXP is being nerfed, and they're adding new Leves, so they could be even better.

MOG HOUSES ARE FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

<3 FFXI

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Originally Posted by Sotek

I mean Christ, the most expensive small house is 50M, and that'll drop every 6 hours already. How many runs of a dungeon is that exactly? A Free Company of 4 people can knock that out in less than 500 runs, though why anyone would only do dungeons for Gil is beyond me...

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I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, but what dungeon can a 4 man run and earn 100k gil per run?

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Originally Posted by Xairos

The reason many are upset is that housing isn't available day one.

This is a gross simplification, yes. But stay tuned. If MMOs are long term affairs (i.e. I played FFXI for 7 years). And If MMOs are to have long term goals (i.e. I've been collecting pieces of a legendary weapon for months). Then some readers might be puzzled as to why tables are being flipped at housing. I think this is because many anticipated a purchase on day one. Speaking from empathy, I can understand the frustration at being denied a day one purchase.

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Old school grinds don't translate well into modern day mmorpgs. The term korean grinder is used for such features. It is not an endearing term.

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Originally Posted by FelisC

I don't disagree with the overall sentiment, but what dungeon can a 4 man run and earn 100k gil per run?

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Well, it's be awhile since I actually checked how much Gil I net per WP/AK, so I'm going with 3k per run (pretty sure it was closer to 5k though), I probably missed a decimal somewhere though, just woke up. Either way, four people all putting that Gil towards a house will add up fast, if they're all Spirit Binding as well, even more Gil. Eight people doing that... Sixteen... Yeah... Gil is hard to farm...

It was stated in a Live Producer Letter some time back that 3-5 people taking 1 job to Lv. 50 will be able to buy a small house. I don't even see how that is possible now.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Well, it's be awhile since I actually checked how much Gil I net per WP/AK, so I'm going with 3k per run (pretty sure it was closer to 5k though), I probably missed a decimal somewhere though, just woke up. Either way, four people all putting that Gil towards a house will add up fast, if they're all Spirit Binding as well, even more Gil.

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500 x 3,000 x 4 is 6,000,000. A run on average is 30 minutes. So your "Easily achievable" is in 15,000 minutes. Your easily achievable also only works on the servers with the cheapest small house. Note that is 15,000 minutes.

*Edit* My math was wrong. Even so that is a far cry from 50,000,000 and is a huge grind for a game that's marketed towards "Casuals."

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Gil is hard to farm...

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I think you are going to be suprised at how quickly the prices of some items are going to TANK with the patch because of the exact reasons you states, people will start trying to do nothing "But" get money materia will flood the market harder than it ever has, tome items will be on the market (Hell it's less than 10k a peice on some servers allready) the effective money making potential of dungeons drops the more people do it for money.

So yes the smallest FC's will actually have a very hard/long time getting money. Hell my FC is 2 people we had hoped to buy the smallest plot after maybe a month or two of scratching up cash I had a mill saved up in a rather rough market (Aegis has pretty low prices on pretty much everything) the flooding of items that are allready flooding legacy markets will become even more severe rock bottoming the prices even faster.

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Originally Posted by Reslin

500 x 3,000 x 4 is 6,000,000. A run on average is 30 minutes. So your "Easily achievable" is in 15,000 hours. Your easily achievable also only works on the servers with the cheapest small house. Note that 15,000 hours would take 625 days which is nearly 2 years.

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Umm thats 15,000 minutes, only 250 hours.

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Originally Posted by Traison

Umm thats 15,000 minutes, only 250 hours.

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Thanks for the correction. You're right. That is still a LOT of hours just to get a house and definitely isn't for casuals and it's still a far cry from the 50,000,000 he/she was claiming.

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Originally Posted by Sovereign

Or for some people, housing isn't available at all without a mindless gil grind.

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Gil sellers will own housing.

At its core, I understand why FC housing would be expensive. It's a house for your entire Free Company, no one person is meant to fork over the gil. It's something everyone in the company should theoretically contribute towards.

But the amount is just baffling to me. I feel like we're also missing any semblance of scale, since "Small/Medium/Large" is rather ambiguous. How many people are expected to be in a small FC house? 10? Therefore 2mil-2.5mil per person on my server. Still a bit much, but at least that is slightly more palatable.

Granted I'd rather just keep my money and purchase a personal house whenever it is out. Now that I know Square is out of their collective minds, I can go full Scrooge McDuck and refuse to put any of my precious gil into the economy, gg no re.

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Originally Posted by AlmaMalma

Gil sellers will own housing.

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That would be a terrible idea for business.

All the people saying furniture should be the long term goal when you consider how easy it is to level crafts and how easy it is to gather items for crafting, in 14 this just wouldn't work plain and simple, the only difficult piece of furniture to get will be the Ads illuminati and my fc got that on our 6th twin kill, we need something for hardcore players to strive for and why is it that everyone has to have teh biggest house on teh best plots no one is forcing you to pay 300-600mil you could always buy the cheaper ones or are you entitled to the best because you pay the subscription ?

Well if someones willing to drop 40m on a house they better be willing to buy my "Cardboard box chair" for at least 100k a pop.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

the effective money making potential of dungeons drops the more people do it for money.

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I'm not talking about money from Philosophy items, I'm talking about that massive amount of Gil they added to killing the regular monsters in that patch months ago. The potential of that Gil does not drop, ever. Same for Tradecraft Leves, same for Treasure Hunts, same for anything that right out drops Gil (going to laugh if we all get plenty of Platinum Allagan pieces from the new main quests).

Lets take your situation specifically; A Free Company of two people (going to assume two total, not two + you). Smallest plot costs 40M. 3,000Gil per Wanderer's Palace becomes 6,000Gil (not factoring in any Gil from Allagan pieces or Materia). That's around 6666 runs, 30 minutes per run (fairly long run, but who am I to judge) equates to 3333 hours which is around half a year (~140 days);

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* The price will reduce a maximum of 360 times in 90 days and will will fall to half its starting price.

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In 90 days the price of your house will have dropped to 20M, however. If we work off that number, you can actually afford it before the 90 days cause it to halve in price.
This also isn't factoring in the Gil you've already gathered, and again, dungeon farming isn't what I'd consider best, it's just consistent. Really though, I'd say wait for personal housing. Such a small Free Company hardly seems worth it, in my opinion. I'm not against small Free Companies (mine doesn't even have eight full time members), but two people? They have to balance the cost of current housing to all Free Companies, and yours is assuredly an outlier, I'm afraid. There are Free Companies with dozens of members, just apply the same maths to them and they get a house very easily... Knock an 0 off the cost and, well...

I really don't see housing as any different to any other piece of content they're adding. You're not going to be done with Dailies next week. You're not going to finish farming Crystal Tower next week. You're not going to afford a House next week.

All the people saying furniture should be expensive, instead of the plot itself (and using ridiculous single player game analogies), are you not aware of how crafting works in XIV or something? Even if the bloody tables are made from Spruce Lumber, there is no way furniture would ever come close to costing a significant amount. I've got a stack of Spruce Lumber, I don't even need to HQ furniture, it could require ten dozen stacks of Spruce Lumber to build the house and it wouldn't dent my wallet at all... Not that I'd be against them lowering the price somewhat in exchange for basic building materials to set up the house, since that would actually be kind of neat (so far it looks like a house just teleports to your land... wat?), but the amount that would shave off the plot, if SE is committing to this cost, is insignificant.

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Originally Posted by Sotek

Lets take your situation specifically; A Free Company of two people (going to assume two total, not two + you). Smallest plot costs 40M. 3,000Gil per Wanderer's Palace becomes 6,000Gil (not factoring in any Gil from Allagan pieces or Materia). That's around 6666 runs, 30 minutes per run (fairly long run, but who am I to judge) equates to 3333 hours which is around half a year (~140 days);

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O.O you realize that in your math, those 140 days are non-stop gaming? No breaks for sleep, restroom, eating, job to pay ffxiv subscription.

Oh, you meant 140 days for the gil farmers we'll be buying the gil from.

Sorry for my misunderstanding.

Why are people talking like they have to earn all the gil themselves?

These prices are much more reasonable when split up and when the decay is included.
Outside of legacy servers, FCs should be able to purchase a house appropriate to their size with one or two months when you also factor in the decay.
They've also mentioned that they've increased gil income in the patch and to judge it after you see that.

Getting the house takes some time (as it should, in my opinion) but you can get it even sooner if the whole FC puts in some effort. Even if you don't, you'll probably be able to get it in 2 months.

Sorry, personal housing is still six months away. Don't confuse this with that.

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Originally Posted by Allyrion

Outside of legacy servers,

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^^ That's the problem right there

Why is it ridiculous for players to want housing day 1? this isn't launch, people have been preparing for this with no way of knowing how much they would need. Players from 1.0 had to go through redenomination only to see these insane prices. Of course ppl who have been saving for months expected to get it right away.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

I think you are going to be suprised at how quickly the prices of some items are going to TANK

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People dont seem to understand the reason we are upset about this. This will hurt the economy so much mark my words. I give it two weeks before the markets are flooded beyond belief. If im wrong find me in two weeks and tell me the economy isnt in shambles. If you making money now I can almost promise you wont be making the money off those methods anymore post two weeks into 2.1.

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Originally Posted by Lelouch001

I don't care about housing but If I'm going to fork over hundreds of millions of gill for a large house. That crap better be a 20,000 square foot mansion.

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You aren't forking over hundreds of millions for a house.

You're forking it over for the Land. The house costs more.

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Originally Posted by Xairos

The reason many are upset is that housing isn't available day one.

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Now I don't mind working for a while to get a house.
I've been trying to save money since the start of this game and I'm NO WHERE near it.
People other than myself having been trying since the start of this game.
You can't afford it without damn calling for bankruptcy.
They took soooo long to tell us the price so now we get grand slammed in the face
with this ungodly amount. Tells us like 3 days before the patch. Yup.

We still need to furnish the house too.