SUMMONER rotation fresh start sharing

Hi all!!
i know there are lots of posts who has similar title but everyone is quiet old and after 5\7 pages goes completely out of topic,so i decided to open a new mine post to discuss about our fantastic but complex class

first of all i want to ask u all a favour,please DONT GO OUT OF TOPIC,we all love our class so its normal wonder in fixes,bigger pet,bigger dick or bigger breasts but,isnt the meaning of this post,its full of posts for that to read and flame with blm for wich has higher dps :)


as we all know isnt easy say "my rotation is +++ " depends on situation,on ur player skill and of course on ur memory,we really have dozens of skill to use costantly and in a long fight can forget something

the meaning of this post is to share our rotation and gives each other suggestions to maximise our dps,its more coil oriented of course where we have to push our best dps in shorter time

i write here my "usual" rotation but changes a lot in base on situations,im talking about single target so there will be not bane in rotation ;)

Raging strike -->Bio2-->miasma-->bio1-->thunder-->shadowlare+contagion while casting-->fester-->ruin1\fester untill bio1 is at 3 seconds

looking at pet,usually on most bosses in coil is preferred give 2\3 seconds to the tank to take a good aggro before start nuke and i use theme to spur and rouse pet but wait to use enkindle untill i used contagion and can set "attack" instead of "obey" or the skill is completely wasted

the reason of this post was initially to understand if im doing something wrong because in t4 we had lots of trouble with the first dread who simply didnt go down! with very very very low dps of the whole party,we didnt have the right setup was just some tests of mechanics but we were 2 smn in group and as always blm say "i do the max dps always so i cant be the problem" lool (we have a funny group isnt a flame)
so the discussion is more "boss style rotation" but can be usefull talk about every situation in future reply

I think i wrote everything i wanted (very bad memory loool)
hoping i didnt confuse u all with my PERFECT english ... lets talk about SMN hehehehe

I think if you Fester before the Thunder, you can get a second Fester in before Raging Strikes ends. I also stick a Miasma II in after the Shadowflare before I start my Ruin spam. If Swiftcast is available, I'll Swiftcast - Raging Strikes - Shadowflare - Bio II at the opening just to get the amazingness that is Shadowflare up and running sooner rather than later.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

I think if you Fester before the Thunder, you can get a second Fester in before Raging Strikes ends. I also stick a Miasma II in after the Shadowflare before I start my Ruin spam. If Swiftcast is available, I'll Swiftcast - Raging Strikes - Shadowflare - Bio II at the opening just to get the amazingness that is Shadowflare up and running sooner rather than later.

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Miasma 2 its a quiet strange skill,i really use it only in t4 first wave cos i dont like stay too close to bosses with aoe and it costs very much mana to keep it on
about swiftcast and shadowflare,isnt better do raging strike before swiftcast? i never used for that because im scared about raging uses the swiftcast bonus instead of shadowflare and becouse its an instant u will loose,maybe is better cast raging before swift (my opinion),anyway usually im the first rezzer to let healer concentrate on heals and i prefere keep swiftcast for an emergency death

Raging Strikes isn't a spell so it doesn't trigger Swiftcast when used. I use it after Swiftcast rather than before so that the Swiftcast animation time doesn't eat into Raging Strikes time. As for saving Swiftcast for a Ressurection, since this is an opening rotation and it changes to a priority system afterwards it's only in the first 60 seconds that you can't raise. If someone needs raising in the first 60 seconds, then there's more of an issue than saving a Swiftcast will be able to fix. Miasma 2 is not always possible to cast for various reasons, most notably when you can't be in melee range. But if it can be used, a Summoner that uses it will do more damage than one who doesn't all else being equal since you get more damage from a Miasma 2 than a Ruin.

good to know that raging isnt affected ;)
miasma2 yes is better than nothing,usually if i use it its when i run to change position and cast it running instead of ruin2,but im not so sure that do so much dmg than ruin,looking at potency its should reach 75 at third tick (and last cos of 10 sec duration) its good for trash things who can be affected by heavy but on bosses i doubt it worth the mana u spend,i really never found nothing of forum about how miasma 2 works but if its like all other dots logic wants should be the same of a ruin ,well u can cast other 3 ruin while miasma2 is up so its anyway a dps boots,but does it worth the risk and the mana in a long fight?

Against a single target Ruin does 80 potency, Miasma 2 does 70 potency so if you're fighting a single mob then Miasma 2 is slightly less effective. With contagion Miasma 2 gets boosted to 120 potency however, so if you are planning on using a contagion soon it's worth it. Against 2 or more targets it clearly is better.

To clarify, here is my opening order:
Swiftcast - Raging Strikes - Shadowflare - Bio 2 - Miasma - Bio - Fester - Thunder - Miasma 2 - Contagion - Ruin - Fester - Ruin and priority maintenance of DoTs

If it's multiple targets I change it to:
Swiftcast - Raging Strikes - Shadowflare - Bio 2 - Miasma - Bio - Miasma 2 - Contagion - Bane - Thunder spam to each target - Ruin spam and priority maintenance of DoTs.

Edit: completely forgot about Thunder. Added. I usually leave out Thunder on multiple targets until after Contagion because its more important usually to get the dots spread faster than boost the dot slightly on one target. If you trust your timing you can switch the order of Contagion and Miasma 2 to shave off a fraction of a second, since there's usually a delay before Garuda-egi uses Contagion after clicking it. You can't start Contagion too soon, however, or you'll run into the gcd of the previous spell.

well...i dont know why but..i never thought about contagion + miasma2 LOL this is a good news for me hehe

In general fighting, I usually want to use my off-cd spells right after the Biora/Miasma/Bio combo which gives me a fluent transition to the ruin.
Also I like to use "Ruinga" which is basically a Ruin followed by Ruinra which causes them to hit the target at the same time for a total of 160 potency. The thing is, it WILL eat up your mp in REALLY long fights without Ballad (WHM will definitely scream for MP before you run out though) and revive intensive fights (saving the day is also your job ;P) so use it carefully, the other thing is that it will trigger your GCD and you're unable to cast things.
With this GCD, you have time to either manage your pet actions or run and observe the battlefield or the party member conditions. Having some free seconds can be very essential as tactician.


BUT if you don't really need spare time, you can immediately hit Miasma burst right after Bio which makes a fluent rotation back to Ruin again (or other spells with a cast time that is..).
So in order to show the benefit of Ruinga, many spells you have can make you cast:


Ruinga --> Fester --> Ruinga -->
rouse --> Ruinga -->
spur --> Ruinga -->
Enkindle --> Ruinga -->
Virus --> Ruinga -->
Eye for an Eye <tt> -->
Ruinga --> Aetherflow -->
Ruinga --> Energy Drain

If you used all your off-gcd spells, it's wise to stick to Ruin only and refresh your dots at some point.
The uses of Ruinga is really just limited to your cooldown management and mp.
As for the Raging Strikes Rotation, I usually queue the usual spells like most people already stated here:
Aetherflow --> RS --> Biora --> Miasma --> Bio --> Fester/Virus/Eye(whatever you need the most) --> Thunder --> (Miasmara if you're close to the enemy) --> Contagion and Bio at the same time.
But of course that only works if you have Garuda on obey, you need to find the correct timing for contagion - once you can do that, you'll refresh the empowered bio right after the contagion which will have about the same duration as Miasma which is great.

I'm sure my playstyle might not be the super optimum go-to style but I've never seen anyone else using it so far (atleast from the summoners I've met so far) but I think I'm pretty happy with my Summoner.
I've only reached turn 2 of Coil so I can't really provide strategies for specific fights but that above mentioned rotation helps for most single target bosses without spawning adds.
That said, I catch myself just acting according the fight - that makes my gcd a perfect time to decide the next step and strategy which should be our biggest strength as Summoner :)

EDIT: @ Xardus - sorry I like to use the -ra and -ga extentions because they sound cooler :) - Ruinra is basically Ruin II and Ruinga is a self made combo action which combines Ruin immediately followed by Ruin II so there is no official Ruinga/Ruin III yet. It just looks like one ;)

yes use ruin2 sometime is very usefull,usually like u say when have to cast a spell without gcd to maximize ur dps , as spur\rouse or fester or recharge aetherflow but u have to watchout at mana because ca run out very quickly and u have to spend some charges for energy drain,expecially if u have a resser role and need to keep over 800 point

edit : i dont know if i understand well what ruin runinra and ruinga are, there are only 2 ruin and it confuses me a bit hehe

So, to clear up some bad information here..

* Raging Strikes does not affect Shadow Flare, and using it before Shadow Flare is downright a waste of the buff
* Prefacing every single off-GCD skill (Rouse, Spur, etc.) with Ruin II is not only a waste of mana, but a loss of DPS. Ruin is practically our worst DPS spell, and you should only be 'weaving' in off-GCD in this way in situations where the fight is either so short that you don't risk running out of mana, or you have something like 2 bards with a perpetual Ballad up, but even then, still probably a waste.
* As mentioned once, Miasma 2 is only worth using against a single target if you are going to employ contagion
* The only way to fit in 2 max potency Festers inside an RS buff is to do RS, Bio2, Miasma, Bio, Fester, Thunder, Ruin, Ruin, Ruin2, Fester or a similar rotation. Fester has to come after the second spell for non-instants or third spell if it is an instant
* The only time you should lead with a Swiftcast->Shadow Flare is generally if you are doing it on the move to reposition. Even though Swiftcast->Shadow Flare goes out immediately, it is not an off-GCD skill, meaning you will still have to wait on GCD to cast again. The best place to fit it in during stand-up DPS is after RS has faded.
* Saving Swiftcast for an emergency is a hedge. If you are in predictable content with a known group, you most likely won't need it. Anywhere you might need to swiftcast a Ress near the beginning of a fight is probably one you are going to lose anyways. I wouldn't hesitate to Swiftcast an early Shadow Flare during evasion/positioning.

During a lot of end-game content, one of the major priorities is focusing on mana and aetherflow management, which are closely tied together. Holding onto Aetherflow charges for too long while Aetherflow is off of cooldown, can often result in running out of mana. If you are not in a position to be able to Fester or Bane, kicking out an Energy Drain so you can Aetherflow again will keep the mana up. You should of course be aiming to utilize all your charges inside the 60 second CD window, but sometime it isn't always possible.

Over-use of Ruin II (such as the example above, using it in combination with _every_ off-GCD ability.. Fester, Rouse, Virus, etc.) is a prime way of running out of mana. Generally speaking, you should avoid using Ruin II except in few situations...

1. Moving while needing to maintain some DPS
2. Fitting extra spells inside a limited buff timer (Potion, RS, etc.)

It is true that weaving spell in with Ruin II will be added DPS, but in longer fights, it comes at a big cost. No matter how much DPS you gain from Ruin II weaving, you will lose so much more if you actually run out of mana or have to fall back on Energy Drain to make up for it.

A lot of maximized potential in the end-game comes from knowing the fights and planning the proper use of your cooldowns ahead of time. Having Contagion available when you are going into an RS rotation, having DoTs up when you know you need to Bane, maximizing Fester output, minimizing Aetherflow sitting un-used while cooled down, utilizing instant spells while re-positioning (not just Ruin II either), etc.

SMN is very strong in end-game content when played well, but can be a disaster if you don't know the content and don't properly maintain a good flow of damage going out. A good performance can be generalized as a fight where you _almost_ ran out of mana, and didn't have to sacrifice DPS to avoid it.

completely agree with you ,just have to say,ruin2 is a waste of mana YES! but i use if sometime in long fights without any mana problem,of course most of time is when i run around avoiding things or just before fester (ruin1 ruin1 ruin2 fester),i never go under 1500 mp if i manage correctly aetherflow
the most trouble i have is remember to use shadoflare after it run out,dont know why but always forget and remember in the next wave,this is my biggest problem because as i can see we are all pretty close with our rotation,good to know that RS dsnt affect shadoflare,maybe is better cast SF before RS and then dots rotation,can be a good way if the fight need some seconds for tank aggro

anyway i wanted to ask u something a bout an eye for an eye,it dsnt work with every t2 mobs and first ads in t1,i think to knight in t4 but i dont remember if its knight or soldier.....is it a game bug or work as indeed? its pretty strange that dsnt work with floating balls

If I had to guess, eye for an eye only procs on physical attacks and ADS' auto attack counts as magical.

My go to combo, starting from 3 stacks of Aetherflow, is:

Virus > Raging Strikes > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Fester > Thunder > Contagion > Energy Drain > Ruin II > Fester

That gives you maximum single target damage possible.

For groups I always use:

Precast Shadow Flare > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > Miasma II (driveby) > Contagion > Bane > Fester Mob#1 > Thunder on #2 and #3 > Spam Ruin on #2 and #3 > Recast Miasma II when its about to run out.

Seems to tear everything a new butthole.

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Originally Posted by Seobit

If I had to guess, eye for an eye only procs on physical attacks and ADS' auto attack counts as magical.

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i think it too but i wasnt sure that all "balls" attack are ranged\magical hehehe and because spell descrition says "when hit" a little generic

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Originally Posted by Darksword

That gives you maximum single target damage possible.

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Until 40 seconds later when the guy who didn't burn a charge on Energy Drain is casting his 6th Fester.

yes but..drain does a good dmg too,isnt like fester but much more than ruin,if u are running low on mana u can use 1 or 2 charges sometime ,and i dont think that strategy burn out so much more mp i think EG isnt always needed

Especially since ED is still being buffed by Raging Strikes. That rotation has you using your most powerful move twice, and your second most powerful (ED) once, all while under the effect of RS. Not to mention the extended DoTs.

If RS isn't up, then naturally you save that charge for another Fester since you're not trying to beat the timer and maximize the RS buff advantage. I did make a booboo though, the end has you use Ruin II before ED and not after, because you want to get that MP back also since Ruin II is so thirsty. I only use it over R1 because, as an instant, it doesn't lock you out from casting that last Fester like Ruin might if RS expired during the cast.

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Originally Posted by Darksword

Especially since ED is still being buffed by Raging Strikes. That rotation has you using your most powerful move twice, and your second most powerful (ED) once, all while under the effect of RS. Not to mention the extended DoTs.

If RS isn't up, then naturally you save that charge for another Fester since you're not trying to beat the timer and maximize the RS buff advantage. I did make a booboo though, the end has you use Ruin II before ED and not after, because you want to get that MP back also since Ruin II is so thirsty. I only use it over R1 because, as an instant, it doesn't lock you out from casting that last Fester like Ruin might if RS expired during the cast.

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It's still not worth it. ED is 150 potency, a proper fester is 300 potency.

150 potency + 20% = 180 potency.

ED should strictly be used for the mana, or to hurry and burn a charge if you couldn't get through all the festers before aetherflow is up.

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Originally Posted by T0rin

* Raging Strikes does not affect Shadow Flare, and using it before Shadow Flare is downright a waste of the buff

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Hmm, I've never bothered to test this. Strange that I never noticed. I won't be in game for a few days to check myself, so do you have a link with confirmation? If it's the case, then all I need to do is switch Shadowflare and Raging Strikes in my order.

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Originally Posted by Mhaeric

Hmm, I've never bothered to test this. Strange that I never noticed. I won't be in game for a few days to check myself, so do you have a link with confirmation? If it's the case, then all I need to do is switch Shadowflare and Raging Strikes in my order.

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It's true, but it's not a waste of a buff. It's still better to cast SF during RS than it is to cast Ruin. SF is roughly 350 potency.

Edit:

And if you start with(taking out oGCD skills) RS->Bio II->Miasma->Bio->Thunder->Miasma II->Contagion->SF, the timer works perfectly with fester where when you need to recast SF, you swift cast it and can use Fester during that GCD.

i dont understand why, yes SF has much total potency higer than ruin , but if isnt affected by RS is still better cast before RS and u can do Ruin1 and if u have mana to waste a Ruin2 before RS ends,then recast SF when expires
in this case RS has same potency in every cases u use so as u wrote 350 but ruin1 and 2 has 20% bonus that u loose if RS expires
if u are talking about "its more handly" for calculate timing maybe it can be true ,i never tryed it,but speaking in term of dps is far better cast out of RS and gain those 100 dmg of the two boosted ruins,isnt so much so can be forgiven but is higher anyway

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Originally Posted by xardus

i dont understand why, yes SF has much total potency higer than ruin , but if isnt affected by RS is still better cast before RS and u can do Ruin1 and if u have mana to waste a Ruin2 before RS ends,then recast SF when expires
in this case RS has same potency in every cases u use so as u wrote 350 but ruin1 and 2 has 20% bonus that u loose if RS expires
if u are talking about "its more handly" for calculate timing maybe it can be true ,i never tryed it,but speaking in term of dps is far better cast out of RS and gain those 100 dmg of the two boosted ruins,isnt so much so can be forgiven but is higher anyway

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Because SF is more DPS than Ruin/Ruin II, even when boosted with RS.

Mine hits for 90/100.
Ruin/Ruin II crits for ~300-310 without RS. That means ~360-370 for crits during.
You lose ~3 ticks by casting it so late, which is 270-300 damage.
That's more than the damage you gained using Ruin/Ruin II instead.

yes but we are not talking about a fight that lasts 50 seconds, if u cast SF before RS u have same damage for SF and bosted for Ruin
if u cast it after RS u have 2.90 seconds loose (SF cast time) and u loose 2 ruin with bonus,casting SF before just gives u about 3 seconds to cast other things with rs bonus
SF is indipendant by RS so cast before or after RS dosnt change ,but cast ruin1 and 2 it changes if has bonus or not

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Because SF is more DPS than Ruin/Ruin II, even when boosted with RS.

Mine hits for 90/100.
Ruin/Ruin II crits for ~300-310 without RS. That means ~360-370 for crits during.
You lose ~3 ticks by casting it so late, which is 270-300 damage.
That's more than the damage you gained using Ruin/Ruin II instead.

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I believe the confusion is to why you just wouldn't cast it before RS, so that you then don't have to lose any time on a spell not affected by the buff. Your discussion of potency doesn't address this, it just makes the case that in normal situation SF has priority over ruin, which is super true.
Cast SF first, it should still be up by your second fester, after which you are free to cast it again. Or am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Hitokirinomad

I believe the confusion is to why you just wouldn't cast it before RS, so that you then don't have to lose any time on a spell not affected by the buff. Your discussion of potency doesn't address this, it just makes the case that in normal situation SF has priority over ruin, which is super true.
Cast SF first, it should still be up by your second fester, after which you are free to cast it again. Or am I missing something?

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..Because that delays RS, Contagion, and Aetherflow CDs?

You should never cast it at the start because you have bigger priorities, unless you're casting while the tank is pulling and you know where he/she is going to place the mob. Don't cast it first after the tank has already pulled.

You do higher dps by always doing whatever action will get you the most damage at any given moment, following a list of priorities. Shadowflare isn't your highest damaging action at the very beginning of the fight so you don't use it there. It is higher damage than ruin even with RS buff though so that's why it fits there.

oh man..bad news...thunder will be only for THM and BLM in 2.1 :(

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Originally Posted by Kevee

..Because that delays RS, Contagion, and Aetherflow CDs?

You should never cast it at the start because you have bigger priorities, unless you're casting while the tank is pulling and you know where he/she is going to place the mob. Don't cast it first after the tank has already pulled.

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No, actually that's what I meant. Most runs with your (static) group you should have a good idea of where the mob is going to end up (aka Turn 4 cast it in the center as soon shield lob is in the air. Also, I have a slight issue with your and Seobit's logic. I agree with you do whatever gives you the most damage, but I disagree at 'any given moment' and I think neither of you actually would agree with that unless you think you should use ED during RS. You know ED does more damage than ruin, but you save the charge for a later Fester because that Fester does more damage than the ED inside of RS. Same with SF. Cast it first, maximize your damage inside of RS, call it a day.