Question about the iLvl 95 weapon update.

I have been reading about the iLvl 95 weapon update. I was doing some looking into the stats between the classes trying to get an idea of how this will affect PLD. Do we know if the Allagan Round Shield will be granted this stat bonus as well? Reason I ask is if it is not increased PLD will fall short of all the main stats (with the exception of BLM due to them not having an iLvl 90 shield) to all the other jobs.

Allagan Blade's current stats.
Strength +22
Vitality +25
Parry +26
Accuracy +18

Allagan Round Shield
Strength +9
Vitality +10
Parry +11
Accuracy +7

For a combined stat of:

Strength +31
Vitality +35
Parry +37
Accuracy +25

This is on par (though slightly better) then the Allagan Battleaxe's stats of:

Strength +31
Vitality +35
Accuracy +37
Determination +18

But if just the weapons get the upgrade the shield will put us understat’ed to the WAR in terms of stats.

My guesses are as following on the Allagan iLvl increase and how this would affect PLD.

Allagan Blade's Projected stats.
Strength +23
Vitality +27
Parry +27
Accuracy +20

Allagan Round Shield (If left unchanged)
Strength +9
Vitality +10
Parry +11
Accuracy +7

For a combined stat of:

Strength +32
Vitality +37
Parry +38
Accuracy +27

Vs Projected Allagan Battleaxe's stats.

Strength +33
Vitality +38
Accuracy +39
Determination +20

In order to keep the stats similar the Allagan shield would need to have it stats increased to the following:

Strength +10
Vitality +11
Parry +12
Accuracy +7 (I can not justify increasing this due to the WAR stats)

Does this seem like an reasonable assessment of the changes ahead?

I think they will. They treat the relic sword and shield as a whole: both upgradeable to i90. I'm guessing they treat the allagan sword and shield the same way. We'll have to wait and see.

I don't think SE did not think about this.

My bet is they will add an iLevel 95 shield into the mix and have it drop paired with the Sword. Or Twintania may drop an item which you can use to upgrade the Allagan Round Shield to it's iLevel 95 counterpart instead of making a new Shield entirely. But lets not forget this is SE, they could come up with anything.

Aligan Shield doesn't need to get upgraded to ilvl95. SE, please keep it @ ilvl90

It´s already statet that only wpns get an uprgrade and not shields.

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Originally Posted by Baci

It´s already statet that only wpns get an uprgrade and not shields.

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The Relic upgrade for Paladin consists of both the sword and shield. So far the sword and shield are considered a single item. Where was it confirmed the shield wouldnt be included as I95?

There was a link to the J-Forum in the "Allagan mimimi gear gets buffed" Thread that it´s only weapons and shields are not included.

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Originally Posted by Baci

There was a link to the J-Forum in the "Allagan mimimi gear gets buffed" Thread that it´s only weapons and shields are not included.

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Pretty sure it was talking about body pieces and accessories not getting buffed along with the weapons, there was no mention of shields.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1596858

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速報の記載と放送上のコメントとの整合性でお騒がせいたしました。
Soraさんにフォロー頂いているとおり、「武器だけ」で間違いありません。

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Hi there

We fuss it in consistency with the comments broadcast on the description of the breaking.
As you have gotten to follow Sora's, no doubt the "only weapon".

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取り急ぎ事実確認のみですが、盾は含まれず、文字通り武器のみが該当になります。

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Only hasten to confirm facts, but shield is not included, only weapon will be literally true.

[QUOTE=Baci;1638628]http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...=1#post1596858

That is disapointing..... Well I hope they up the sword to make up the difference for the shield.

I would understand to buff the shield if it would drop from Twintania, but since it drops from T1 it´s a no-go to buff the shield.

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Originally Posted by Baci

I would understand to buff the shield if it would drop from Twintania, but since it drops from T1 it´s a no-go to buff the shield.

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This. The devs said that they were increasing the ilevel on the allagan weapons because they were t5 drops, and Twintania is hard enough to justify better loot than the rest of the turns. They did not say that they were increasing the ilevel on *all* t5 drops; just the weapons.

Something to remember, on the shield, since off hand items have only half of the itemization of a main hand weapon, you're complaining about losing an 1 STR, 1 VIT, and 2 points of secondary stat.

P.S. Determination is valued at roughly 50% more than the other secondary stats, which is why it's always lower; 18 determination is the itemization equivalent of roughly 27 of a different secondary stat.

Not so much complaining as equality to other classes.

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Originally Posted by YarozeX

Not so much complaining as equality to other classes.

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PLD gets the shield in t1. If it were i95, you'd be talking about giving PLD an explicit advantage because it's super easy to get access to that shield whereas everyone else has to finish out t5. The entire point of the change is to increase the reward for t5.

You're also going to see more impact based upon the real value of the different secondary stats than you are from the loss you're talking about. The fact that the Allagan Sword and Allagan Shield are loaded down with both Acc and Parry rating while the Allagan Axe is just Acc and Det is a bigger question of real equality than what you're attempting to dredge up. The fact that the Allagan Sword and Shield both pack the best tank stats (especially given that they're high parry rating) means that PLD is going to have a pretty substantial advantage over WAR even *if* you're losing 1 STR, 1 VIT, and 2 secondary stats.

Or they can just round up the 5ilvl stat into the sword.

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Originally Posted by TaneshimaPopura

Or they can just round up the 5ilvl stat into the sword.

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I like this idea, I have feeling SE gonna put Sword's stats on par with two-handed weapon

So all turn 5 weapons will have the same amounts of stats option

So PLD still have a little edge because their shield level 90 still huge boost

It's a strange comparison to make with the Allagan battleaxe anyway, since the axe has no parry and will continue to fall short of bravura (or, more likely, the new ilvl 90 axe from extreme modes that will, hopefully, have parry and any other stat besides skill speed, making it the new best in slot) even after it is buffed to an ilvl 95. An ilvl 95 sword and an easy-to-obtain ilvl 90 shield is completely fair I think.

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Originally Posted by Kitru

PLD gets the shield in t1.

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In theory.

In practice I've done Coils Turn 1 (and usually 2 and 3, and occasionally 4) every week for months now and all I've ever seen drop are DRG/MNK gear and the odd Healer item... :p
RNG hates me! :D

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Originally Posted by Maelwys

In theory.

RNG hates tanks! :D

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Fixed that for you :)

so basically if you don't do coil you don't get the i95 weapon which means its going to be even harder to hold agro against players who do get the weapon .

oh well only solution is to not play tank and to just que as healer I guess .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

so basically if you don't do coil you don't get the i95 weapon which means its going to be even harder to hold agro against players who do get the weapon .

oh well only solution is to not play tank and to just que as healer I guess .

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Or tell DPS to chill out?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Or tell DPS to chill out?

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If I could hold hate over i80 Relic weapons with an i60 Ifrit sword, I can hold hate over i95 Allagan weapons with an i90 Relic +1 sword.
Nothing to see here folks.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

oh well only solution is to not play tank and to just que as healer I guess .

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DPS also need to do aggro management. Not just the tank, it has been this way since the beginning of time. Any MMO that I have played as DD (except for wow now, tanks get 500% threat boost or something) I've managed my aggro. This game does not have dps meters for a reason. So that you focus more on the skill and less on the how fast can i bang my head on these three buttons on my keyboard.
To the OP. I really dislike the fact that you have to create a long winded post about how a WAR will have +1 STR and +1 VIT over a PLD. Like Kitru said if anything complaint about the DET. This stat generates more damage which in turn generates more dps and enmity. As oppose to the latter which does absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I...you can't.... but... taht's not how.....

How are tanks loosing agro to dps?

Why do tanks say they need dps to wait before engaging?

Am I playing a different version of paladin than these people? Unless you are two full tiers of equipment behind a dps, you should never loose threat to them. Aggro is a non issue in this game.

That said: I will actually be very upset if there is a 1 vit imbalance between war and pld cus of i95 axe vs i90 shield. It may not sound like a lot, but that's the drive for tanks--to increase their vitality. Its our main stat, its how two tanks instantly compare themselves gear wise. "What's your vit? YES I WIN BY X BOW BEFORE MY AWESOME." Would totally suck if we were destined to loose by 1. Mnk's would be equally qq over a 1 str loss to drg, or blm over 1 int loss to smn.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

That said: I will actually be very upset if there is a 1 vit imbalance between war and pld..

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I'm assuming you are trying to troll..by saying these things but i could be wrong and if i am wrong, this is my reply.

I did some simple math. 30 points of VIT in attributes is equal to 450 hp. By this logic 1 point of VIT is 15 hp. Warriors already have more health than PLDS as it is, that is their nature. But you wrote that you will be "very upset" at a 15 hp difference. Dude..don't feed the paladin vs war hate man.. its bad for the community.

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Originally Posted by Techro

I'm assuming you are trying to troll..by saying these things but i could be wrong and if i am wrong, this is my reply.

I did some simple math. 30 points of VIT in attributes is equal to 450 hp. By this logic 1 point of VIT is 15 hp. Warriors already have more health than PLDS as it is, that is their nature. But you wrote that you will be "very upset" at a 15 hp difference. Dude..don't feed the paladin vs war hate man. its bad for the community.

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You couldn't be more wrong. Warrior does not actually have more health than paladin.

Paladin and warrior, currently, have exactly the same effective hp. Vitality is exactly equal. 20% damage reduction is the same as having 25% more hp in terms of how much damage it takes to get killed. 1 VIT more on the axe would mean warrior now has 18.125 effective hp more than paladin (vit is actually 14.5hp). And yes that amount does matter. I hallowed grounded on twin with 3 hp two nights ago. It is very possible to have a situation where you would survive an attack based on that 18.125 ehp differential. This would be a raw, gear based imbalance, which is just stupid and should not exist.

warriors have more base health than paladins, but you can't gift the allagan sword extra stats due to imbalances once newer shields are released. I'd honestly prefer them to just give the shield i95.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

You couldn't be more wrong. Warrior does not actually have more health than paladin.

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WAR actually packs something like 8 more VIT than a PLD in base stats. It's technically true that a WAR has more eHP than a PLD in the same gear because of this, but it's not by enough to really make a difference, especially at higher gear levels.

warriors have 75 more base hp.

In regards to the shield you get a sword from Ifrit and Garuda, you get the shield from Titan. The only time they are treated as "1" is your relic in which case it's still 2 separate items 1 requiring 1 mist the other 2. This already is an advtage over every other job as far as gear prog. goes. You can get pld to 50 and get half your +1 in the same day. Also a new shield coming from the primals? even though it i90 as it might balance out better in certain situations. How about the fact that blm doesn't even get an i90 shield and the one in .dats is awful(unless you can materia it then it might be usable). You shoudn't be compairing war and plds allag wpns either as they have different gear sets to go with them you should be comparing allag sword + Holy Shield+1 vs cutana +1 and hs +1 vs Curtana +1 + allag shield vs Allag wpn and allag shield. But honestly your complaining because you have 2 lvl 90 shields and a usable i95 wpn where as blm has 0 - i90 shields, specializes in 2 handed staffs, and the i95 wpn is not even usable at all currently

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Originally Posted by Urielparadox

SNIP

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Since you don't seem to actually understand the concern.
Allagan Battleaxe/Bravura +1(iLVL90)
Strength - 31
Vitality - 35

Allagan Blade/Curtana +1 (iLVL90)
Strength - 22
Vitality - 25

Allagan Round Shield/Holy Shield +1(iLVL90)
Strength - 9
Vitality - 10

With regards to TANKS their base-stats are currently matched gained from their weapon setups. Str/Vit from Battleaxe/Bravura = AllaganBlade/Curtana + Round/Holy Shield. The concern is that by bumping only the weapons from Twintania to iLVL 95, it is possible the stat-balance between the two classes would be broken. This can be remedied a couple of ways however.

Increasing Allagan Round Shield to iLVL95 outright.
Pro's-
Keeps balance the same for current content.
Con's-
Paladin gets access to their iLVL95 shield much earlier than any other class.

Increase Allagan Blade's iLVL95 str/vit to make the difference between iLVL95 Axe and iLVL95 Sword/iLVL 90 shield
Pro's-
Keeps balance the same for current content. Paladin does not get the iLVL95 bonus any earlier than WAR.
Con's-
Creates imbalance further down when additional iLVL95 items are added. iLVL95 Sword+Shield would have higher net stats than iLVL95 axe.

Create mechanism to increase current iLVL 90 shield to iLVL 95 when the iLVL 95 sword is acquired. Can be through hidden trait that increases paired shield's iLVL, mini-quest (no actual action required) that upgrades the shield, etc.
Pro's - Keeps the balance for current content.
Con's - Unsure

Essentially, whatever method they chose, SE needs to keep the raw stat gain equivalent between WAR and PLD for current contents top gear.

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Originally Posted by Lucavern

Create mechanism to increase current iLVL 90 shield to iLVL 95 when the iLVL 95 sword is acquired. Can be through hidden trait that increases paired shield's iLVL, mini-quest (no actual action required) that upgrades the shield, etc.
Pro's - Keeps the balance for current content.
Con's - Unsure

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The "best" way would probably be for the two to belong to an item set that provides +1 STR, +1 VIT, and +1 ACC, and +1 PAR when you have both equipped. The Con is that it's more work than just changing a couple numbers.

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Essentially, whatever method they chose, SE needs to keep the raw stat gain equivalent between WAR and PLD for current contents top gear.

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No, they really don't. It's 1 STR, 1 VIT, and 2 secondary stats. It's not enough to make any kind of fuss about, especially since, as I mentioned before, PLD already has the better stat distribution so that, even if they have slightly less itemization, it still going to provide more than Bravura +1 or the Allagan Axe. There isn't a balance reason to make an issue of this because distribution matters just as much, if not more, than total itemization (look at the WAR helm; thing is terrible), and the distribution on the PLD MH/OH is *way* better than the distribution on either of the WAR MHs.

They probably won't change the shield so you're just going to get stuck with a 1-2 stat point deficit. It's not a big deal, so I wouldn't worry about it too much..

You should feel lucky though, the allagan BLM weapon is also a 1h item, but there doesn't even seem to be an ilvl 90 BLM shield in the game. They're stuck with an ilvl70 crafted one to use as an offhand.

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Originally Posted by Giantbane

You should feel lucky though, the allagan BLM weapon is also a 1h item, but there doesn't even seem to be an ilvl 90 BLM shield in the game. They're stuck with an ilvl70 crafted one to use as an offhand.

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There are i90 shields for whm/blm in the Libra database, though it doesn't say "Allagan". Do they not drop from the coil or are those leftovers from 1.0 or something?

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

There are i90 shields for whm/blm in the Libra database, though it doesn't say "Allagan". Do they not drop from the coil or are those leftovers from 1.0 or something?

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Afaik, no one's ever seen one. It was a complaint by BLMs in the general forum when the changes were announced. I'm assuming they're in the game's item database but they're not set up to actually drop anywhere yet.

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Originally Posted by PiedPiper

1 VIT more on the axe would mean warrior now has 18.125 effective hp more than paladin (vit is actually 14.5hp).

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Like i said the difference is so minuscule that it will never make a noticeable difference. You also speak of eHP as something more than just numbers being calculated in an algorithm. That's all it is. The game happens in real time where the algorithm will only be as effective as how well you know how to push buttons and which buttons to push. If one does not know how to do this then i'm afraid 15 hp will not save you or anyone else in the same boat for that matter.