Need penalties on people who click withdraw more then once in a row in DF

Its getting pretty ridiculous how many times someone withdraws just because they don't know how filter df properly,

Tick the join party in progress before you register yourself for DF, its getting annoying when you withdraw just because you didn't get the group that's already at the last boss

Just remember, everytime the tank withdrawls they giggle like a shoolgirl.

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

Just remember, everytime the tank withdrawls they giggle like a shoolgirl.

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...strangely enough i can see that happening.

Need penalties on people who DONT click ADVANCED SEARCH even once on forums before post repeated stuff.
kthxbye

Omgooossshhh yousshhh didnsshhhh hitsshhh advancshhhh sshhheearchsssh!

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Originally Posted by Aaron_T

Omgooossshhh yousshhh didnsshhhh hitsshhh advancshhhh sshhheearchsssh!

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OH KNOES!!!!

My brain hurts. :)

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Originally Posted by gintoki88

Its getting pretty ridiculous how many times someone withdraws just because they don't know how filter df properly,

Tick the join party in progress before you register yourself for DF, its getting annoying when you withdraw just because you didn't get the group that's already at the last boss

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Ticking party in progress doesn't guarantee you'll get a party in progress. It just means you'll get one if one is available. These people are withdrawing until they get one in progress. And yes, it's very annoying.

Most times Id rather join a new group, many of the in progress runs are doomed to failure anyways.

This is stupid. You want to punish people for what is a minor annoyance at worst. No.

Maybe they should just separate the queues for "Join in Progress" and regular searching? I know how terrible it can be for DPS classes to get into a group and if the tank bails they're pretty much boned seeing as most tanks are not going to queue up with "Join in Progress". Knowing that, there was one specific day where all I did was queue up with "Join in Progress" selected but I had to keep withdrawing because I wasn't getting put into groups that were already in progress. While I totally understand that there are people abusing the DF, I was actually trying to help people and while no one would've known it was me queuing and withdrawing repeatedly, I'm sure there were a lot of people sitting in front of their monitors/TVs that weren't happy.

I wish they'd be a little more lax with the DF penalty to begin with. If i have to drop due to unfortunate circumstances (keep wiping or DPS goes afk for free tomes) i shouldn't be penalized for the FIRST time I drop group. maybe not even the second, but for the third. Hell, even make it a 30 minute lockout i don't care. Sick of being penalized for one time for reasons that aren't my fault. 15 minute penalty because I was being harassed in a dungeon and decided to leave? Yeah, give me the penalty while the harassing party gets away with it free of the lockout timer.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

This is stupid. You want to punish people for what is a minor annoyance at worst. No.

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It's not really a minor annoyance if you're DPS.

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

It's not really a minor annoyance if you're DPS.

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Even as a healer queueing for WP, it's like 7 mins to get 4/4 and then a further 10 mins of tanks continuously withdrawing party until you get one who isn't lazy.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

This is stupid. You want to punish people for what is a minor annoyance at worst. No.

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This could be something as simple as a five minute lockout before reflagging if someone drops three times in ten minutes.

Hardly a punishment, but would discourage people who are deliberately annoying other people.

What about people who are trying to join a friend's in-progress run by request but didn't get placed in the correct group?

Once in brayflox, when everybody loaded, tank turned around, ran to exit and left dungeon. Everybody else was WTF?!

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Originally Posted by Huxer

Most times Id rather join a new group, many of the in progress runs are doomed to failure anyways.

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If a group is post DW in AK it is pretty likely a success group as that is the only boss in that instance that is any hard at all.

Just put a 15-30 second lockout on the guy who declined group finder before you can queue again. For anyone else but tank, it's not like that time even matters when you usually need 10+ minutes before it pops. For tanks, they'll get an instant queue 15-30 seconds later to try again, but it'll be less spam for everyone else.

Agreed. The more they decline the higher the lockout they should get. For example: the first time they decline they should get a five minute lockout, when that lockout is done and if they decline another party they should get a ten minute lockout, then fifteen for the third time they decline, etc. It should punish someone for being lazy, so much so that it becomes more time consuming to abuse the DF than to simply join a group and finish a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Just put a 15-30 second lockout on the guy who declined group finder before you can queue again. For anyone else but tank, it's not like that time even matters when you usually need 10+ minutes before it pops. For tanks, they'll get an instant queue 15-30 seconds later to try again, but it'll be less spam for everyone else.

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Yeah that would work as a lazy fix . But I would rather them implement a more advanced DF system that allows me to customise my party to what I prefer. For example I might want to find only Relic +1 players to group with and certain classes .

You are going to say but then my lancer would never get a group .. well if I get lancer in my group I quit anyways so Im saving you and myself time .

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Originally Posted by AdvancedWind

It's not really a minor annoyance if you're DPS.

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I queue almost exclusively as DPS.

Yeah. It really is minor. Ridiculously minor. Absurdly minor. Is ~30 seconds of "trolling" before being paired with an actual tank that sticks around really that big a deal to you? Really?

It doesn't affect your position in the queue at all. You're still first in line for a tank that actually queues up for the group, you realize.

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Originally Posted by Grailer

You are going to say but then my lancer would never get a group .. well if I get lancer in my group I quit anyways so Im saving you and myself time .

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And it's probably better if people like you aren't in the queue at all, you're right.

As healer I often do a quick check to see if parties have been abandoned in a dungeon. I wish there was an option to check only groups already in progress.

Sometimes you can tell why a group got ditched if they're not very good, but a lot of times they had bad luck or just had someone who ditched. I've gone through plenty of lower dungeons in parties who had only had DD left.
(Also had a funny time where an LS mate asked for help and I got placed in a different party that had lost their healer, finished with them, then popped in again and did it with my LS mate).

I hate withdrawing from a brand new party, but I don't have to do it often since if you click 5 dungeons there's usually one in progress that needs a healer.

this was already discussed and an dev already responded too

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Originally Posted by Borfin

Yeah. It really is minor. Ridiculously minor. Absurdly minor. Is ~30 seconds of "trolling" before being paired with an actual tank that sticks around really that big a deal to you? Really?

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One time I spend 15 minutes of tanks dodging a queue, on top of the 7ish minutes it took me to queue up as a healer. It's definitively not minor, and it basically tripled my queue time (Half an hour instead of >10 minutes). Yes, the system immediately puts you "next in line", which can still range from instant to 1min per dodge depending on availability and congestion.

Perhaps you've been lucky and it hasn't happened to you, but I've queued as non-tank about two times and I've had this happen on both (One only was 3 dodges). To me this is a very apparent problem, and people downplaying it because it hasn't happened to them are clearly missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

One time I spend 15 minutes of tanks dodging a queue, on top of the 7ish minutes it took me to queue up as a healer. It's definitively not minor, and it basically tripled my queue time (Half an hour instead of >10 minutes). Yes, the system immediately puts you "next in line", which can still range from instant to 1min per dodge depending on availability and congestion.

Perhaps you've been lucky and it hasn't happened to you, but I've queued as non-tank about two times and I've had this happen on both (One only was 3 dodges). To me this is a very apparent problem, and people downplaying it because it hasn't happened to them are clearly missing the point.

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Without the tank doing the dodging your queue would never have popped in the first place.

You lose no time for people doing this, although it gets annoying hearing your machine sound like you won a jackpot in a slot machine for a whole minute.

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Originally Posted by gintoki88

Tick the join party in progress before you register yourself for DF, its getting annoying when you withdraw just because you didn't get the group that's already at the last boss

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joke's on you

i always take 1/3

people generally avoid 0/3 though because they end up having to wait for a healer or because there is still a lot of trash.

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Originally Posted by Lunavi

If a group is post DW in AK it is pretty likely a success group as that is the only boss in that instance that is any hard at all.

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i have never had a problem with an in progress group.

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Originally Posted by Kyros

One time I spend 15 minutes of tanks dodging a queue, on top of the 7ish minutes it took me to queue up as a healer. It's definitively not minor, and it basically tripled my queue time (Half an hour instead of >10 minutes).

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You queue without it regularly taking 20-30 minutes? I want to be in your server group. (One time... Phew.)

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Perhaps you've been lucky and it hasn't happened to you, but I've queued as non-tank about two times and I've had this happen on both (One only was 3 dodges).

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That's... really not a good sample size. At all. It's rare, it's 15-30 seconds tops most times, and when it isn't, you're still at the front of the line every time. So it doesn't actually affect your queue time at all. It just feels like it does.

You can make an argument that while you're occupied with the troll tank for 2-3 seconds, you might've missed a legitimate tank queueing up, but since every time he (the troll tank) drops queue he also drops his position in queue, that's highly unlikely.

A more elegant solution would be to keep the queue popping from telling you which bosses have been downed in the instance or the time remaining, but punishing people that do this is utterly ridiculous, absurd and will only cause queue times to increase for in-progress groups.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

Without the tank doing the dodging your queue would never have popped in the first place.

You lose no time for people doing this, although it gets annoying hearing your machine sound like you won a jackpot in a slot machine for a whole minute.

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This post wins the thread.

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Originally Posted by Borfin

You can make an argument that while you're occupied with the troll tank for 2-3 seconds, you might've missed a legitimate tank queueing up, but since every time he (the troll tank) drops queue he also drops his position in queue, that's highly unlikely.

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It's possible say if you're healer #1 in position, while troll tank is queueing, a legitmate tank queues immediately after and thus healer #2 gets a group while you do not. However it is also equally likely that you got a group for being in the healer #2 position while the healer #1 position guy missed it. At any rate, legitmate tanks clearly don't show up very often simply by looking at queue time for nontanks, so the likelihood of either event happening is minuscule to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Astarica

so the likelihood of either event happening is minuscule to begin with.

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And how exactly do you know that? Do you have numbers to show? I could say it happens all the time and have the same amount of legitimacy as you do, since I don't have anything tangible to back it up.

I think punishment for wasting other peoples time when you withdraw from something you signed up for is totally acceptable. In fact they already do that in FF14; if you're the first person to ditch a group you get a lockout.

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Originally Posted by Elim

And how exactly do you know that? Do you have numbers to show? I could say it happens all the time and have the same amount of legitimacy as you do, since I don't have anything tangible to back it up.

I think punishment for wasting other peoples time when you withdraw from something you signed up for is totally acceptable. In fact they already do that in FF14; if you're the first person to ditch a group you get a lockout.

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Because that's how queues work, or do you for some reason assume if your tank drops queue your queue resets?

You might have a point if you had to go through your average wait time in queue all over again every time someone dropped. Do you? I know my average wait time is 20-30 minutes (SOMETIMES ever so slightly longer) regardless of troll tank queue drops.

This is how queues function in WoW, in LoL, in DOTA, every online FPS ever, in COUNTLESS games with queue systems - so what evidence do you have to suggest the queue functions differently in FFXIV especially when it appears to behave exactly the same?

How can he be wasting your time when it doesn't affect your position in the queue at all?

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Originally Posted by Borfin

need to shorten post cus of character limit so i snipped this

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Did....did you read his post?

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It's possible say if you're healer #1 in position, while troll tank is queueing, a legitmate tank queues immediately after and thus healer #2 gets a group while you do not.

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He finished that post by stating:

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the likelihood of either event happening is minuscule to begin with.

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How does he know the likelihood is low? I don't see a chart or numbers. It's possible there's a healer #1 getting screwed hourly by a tank withdrawing. And no, "because I heard it does and say so" isn't enough for me.

If it is common that a troll tank and a legitmate tank queue up at the same time, then that implies legitmate tanks show up as frequently as troll tanks. Therefore, the queue ought to move at a rate roughly equal to the frequency troll tanks show up.

It should be readily obvious that it takes considerably longer than the frequency you run into troll tanks to get the queue to pop. Therefore, it cannot be the case that the event of a legitmate tank and a troll tank queueing at the same time is very common. At any rate, it doesn't matter because you're just as likely to benefit for being in the #2 position (troll tank gets #1, legitmate tank gets #2) as you're to be harmed by being in the #1 position (situation reversed).

But seriously, just look at how long it takes you to get queue to pop as a nontank. You really think there are all these tanks out there that are constantly queueing and there's just some trick that's preventing you from seeing them? If they existed, you wouldn't be waiting for so long in the first place.

It may not be that common, but I doubt it's "minuscule" or "rarely happens".