A number of players are seemingly upset over the supposed lockout. Why is this 1-2 month delay in getting your supposed "loot" such a big deal? The content is the real treasure - getting loot is a bonus is it not? ;)
Also, just to clear this up as well. Gear from CT is not preventing anyone from tackling content already in the game. It's simply another alternate and progressive step. Bypass it completely if you do not agree with said lockout.
/rant off.
The content in question, if stressful for you. Absolutely. Can't support what you don't agree with right? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by teoulas
Not to the developers.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionInerghem
I doubt the developers thought the community would spam WP till their eyes bled.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePatriarch
Incorrect. Lockouts prevent gear progression quickly. Lockouts therefore increase competition as more people have access to the same level gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
Said Paladin needs to get a swift kick in the rear. Say, why are you hating on PLD anyways?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crafter
Lockout - why the big deal?
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12-06-2013, 09:42 AMWyyoteLockout - why the big deal?
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12-06-2013, 09:44 AMThePatriarch
Yes!! Hear hear!!!
You can go back to WP! Because the content is so much fun! Coil! YESSS!!
No. -
12-06-2013, 09:44 AMOrionInerghem
Because many of us have 1 Class already at or near full i90, and 7 other classes wearing i60, or Almost full DL already. And we'd like to gear up and play other classes to where they can be effectively used. I have DL, for almost all classes, the i70-i90 gap is annoying, and we want to close it.
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12-06-2013, 09:45 AMStaniceI must be treasuring Wanderer's Palace very deeply.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wyyote
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12-06-2013, 09:48 AMteoulas
Or bypass the game entirely. Logic?
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12-06-2013, 09:49 AMVahlnirNo logic is permitted here!Quote:
Originally Posted by teoulas
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12-06-2013, 09:51 AMTenku
Because lockouts kills competition. Lockouts forces the people who put more time in the game to be on the same level as people who don't put much time in the game. Lockouts forces mediocrity to all which kills motivation. Everyone plays the game for fun. Many find trying to be the best; fun.
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12-06-2013, 09:54 AMjunigleeOh hey! Did you also know that there's going to be Copperbell Mines (Hard), Haukke Manor (Hard), and Pharos Sirius as more dungeons to farm tomestones from? Not including daily quests, daily DF roulette, extreme primals, Good King Moogle Mog XII (whatever the number is).Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePatriarch
You can continue going back to WP, nobody will stop you. Just that there are other options out there. -
12-06-2013, 09:56 AMZell1226
Because I like to play every job, and I play them extremely well. It's stupid when you need a BLM for a T5 group, but I can't go because I'm in scrubby darklight gear, because PLD/WAR is my i90 class. It's going to be the same way with extreme primals. Sure, recommended ilvl is 70, but why would you want to do those fights in the lowest ilvl possible? You're stuck to playing a single class the entire game despite it having this cool system of having everything on 1 character. What is the point of this system then? When it is actually more beneficial just to make an alt anyway? It's stupid. Lockouts on i80 gear is stupid. You already locked out the best gear in the game, why the second best? Really?
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12-06-2013, 09:58 AMVahlnirTo be fair, there's nothing keeping the "hardcores" at ground level with casuals beyond running CT once. If you don't want or need the gear, then simply don't run it. Same thing applies if you just don't like the raid. Many who raid Coil have a tight-knitted group of players so gearing up alt classes isn't much of an issue if no one wants what drops for their main. On that note, most players (mostly the casual base) haven't stepped into Coil yet so...I'd say those that do are still the best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenku
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12-06-2013, 09:59 AMCrafter
A group beats the 1st boss out of the 4 bosses in CT.
PLD wins the lot and gets the armor.
PLD leaves the instance, since we won't be able to get anything else until next week...
Rest of the party: "......." -
12-06-2013, 10:00 AMRi_ri
Content being difficult due to a gear gap is pretty cheap.
Come 2.2 bringing Coil with level 110 gear, then CT in 2.3 with 100 gear to close the gap again... can't we just have a normal progression? -
12-06-2013, 10:22 AMArkistaI thought that Crystal Tower was suppose to be what helped bridge the gap for Casual players to do CoB. But that's out the door now. Even in a static your still not guaranteed to gear out an ALT class.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vahlnir
The lockout keeps us in the same boat that we've been in since launch it force people to either pick one class and max it out then gear another or make a new character so you can do the content over again.
In FFXI I had all my jobs maxed out (except one), I had 6 jobs ready to go at anytime for any content. I loved having the option to play a different class when ever I wanted or was needed. We can't do all that in this game on the same character.
I think a lot of people had the idea that we would be able to gear up in ilvl80 gear on other classes so they could run CoB on different jobs once their main got maxed out gear. Cause that was my plan. -
12-06-2013, 10:38 AMDjeserit...and Between 450 Myth/week, i90 accessories from extreme primals, and a guaranteed i80 each week from CT you will. Maybe not instantly, but you'll be able to gear up for Coil on alts MUCH faster post-patch.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrionInerghem
For Example:
Week 1 - CT: i80 Head, Primal: i90 Ring
Week 2 - CT: i80 Gloves, Primal: i90 Wrist, Myth: i90 Body
Week 3 - CT: i80 Feet, Primal: i90 Ear
Week 4 - CT: i80 Pants, Primal: i90 Neck, Myth: i90 Belt +Ring
Combine with i90 weapon you got the first week from the extreme primal quest chain and boom...
Avg ilvl 86.66 in 4 weeks. That's pretty freaking fast compared to right now. -
12-06-2013, 10:42 AMWyyoteThat's kind of my point. You'll still be able to gear up other classes through a variety of methods. It may take two to three months vs. a few weeks. Honestly, I'm still missing the big problem with this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Djeserit
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12-06-2013, 10:51 AMSaidosha
It's also problematic to assume everyone plays the same way weekly.
Averaging someone's play time over a month, let's say it's 40 hours. 10 hours a week doesn't sound too bad. Let's consider 2 weeks out of the month you can't play, but can drop 20 hours a week for the 2 remaining weeks. A lockout doesn't care if you couldn't play those two weeks even if you could put the equivalent effort in later. You're arbitrarily held back.
The people who would grind out everything in a couple days are a severe minority. While I strive for personal excellence, I do not play that way and would likely run 2-3 CTs a week, tops. Crusading against that minority is a fool's errand. Conversely, basically telling me I can't play doesn't make me want to, let alone pay for that restriction. There is also no benefit to the casual players. Once you're 5 weeks behind, you're forever 5 weeks behind without changes to the system. This is a problem not exclusive to XIV, but any MMO that utilizes time gating. -
12-06-2013, 11:35 AMSkotie
The only reason for lockout's are to keep you playing longer. They get paid by the month so yeah your getting locked out.
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12-06-2013, 12:09 PMKyrriostheir wages will drop fast if they keep the lock-out in place though, i know many ppl are willing to quit if this is not changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skotie
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12-06-2013, 12:19 PMyamface
Theres lockouts in pretty much every decent mmo ever yet this is the only community crying rivers about this. Seriously reading some of you ppl's posts makes me think you just now discovered this "mmo" thing.
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12-06-2013, 12:22 PMindira
what they need to do is have more ways to get tomestones like special leves. leves with something like popped NM's they have so many things they can do.
that video showing the new rewards for the duty finder if you play a job thats posted it gives gil, it should give more tomestones NO BODY is running dungeons for gil maybe if it was like 10k gil a run. -
12-06-2013, 12:25 PMCuragajaI only played XI, but I can't think of any lock-outs that affected progress as much as this one.Quote:
Originally Posted by yamface
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12-06-2013, 12:30 PMDjeseritXI didn't have them, instead they had abysmal drop rates and 24-72 hour respawn timers (which is, guess what, a lockout!).Quote:
Originally Posted by Curagaja
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12-06-2013, 12:39 PMyamfaceI mean outside of the FF games, it's expected to see lockouts in mmos. In fact for me it's very, very awkward if the endgame content doesn't have lockouts. That's how common it is. ff14 isn't failing because of these locks, it's the poor lack of anything else at endgame is the issue. If I were to say raid in wow's final dungeon, I would get locked for the week, but then I also have like 100000 other things to do. ie: pvp battlegrounds, real crafting, 6-7 small dungeons, OTHER large scale endgame raids (2-3 more), etc etc. ff14 isn't at that point yet, but once it is locks wont be a problemQuote:
Originally Posted by Curagaja
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12-06-2013, 01:28 PMRochetm
WEll if the information is correct I can gear up full myth nearly as fast as full CT gear. That is all ignoring anything I get in coil.
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12-06-2013, 01:39 PMGrailer
The lock out is anti community .
Cant run coil because someone is away , need someone to do turn 3 but they cant because they are on turn 4. etc etc . Just a dumb design trying to slow people down . Well Ill bypass coil completely and hey if another game comes out before better content comes out then bye bye me and couple of 1000 others probably quit and go play that , no one will care in the end . -
12-06-2013, 01:43 PMDjeseritFunny, every other MMO with similar lockouts has a perfectly fine community, generally speaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grailer
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12-06-2013, 01:58 PMWobble
The other problem is they all whine that they play Monday but then take the rest off the week off as they have nothing to do, but if there was no lock they would get everything in a day maybe a week and then complain for not having nothing to do. It's really a no win for SE either way.
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12-06-2013, 03:22 PMZerosixIn other games each class has multiple roles and specs. Here each class is basically a role or spec, so it gets boring playing one only. The lockouts being character based instead of job based makes for boring gameplay in the long run. When new classes come out you will have to hurt your main jobs to be able gear the class and see how it does.Quote:
Originally Posted by yamface
In rift my warrior could Tank, range dps, melee dps, support, and soon heal (expac) all efficiently. Here is would take forever to gear different classes/jobs to get the same variety due to the way they are making lockouts character based, instead of job based.
See AboveQuote:
Originally Posted by Djeserit
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12-06-2013, 04:00 PMRochetm
I didn't get bored in wow and I could collect a lot more gear for my one class than I can for all of them in this game. I have 6 level 50 jobs. If I played hardcore and there was a lockout in coil based on job it will still take me months to gear each job... and that would be some extreme hardcore playing.
The thing I like about this game the most is having all the jobs as one character... to bad I only get to gear one of them every few months. -
12-06-2013, 04:51 PMDjeseritI'm sorry, but if you could do 5 different roles in 1 single set of gear then that gear/stat system is fubar. I haven't played Rift, so I can't speak for certain, but in any other game even different roles (on the same class/character) need different gear sets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zerosix
Since I know WoW, I'll use it as an example. If you roll on Druid tank gear in a given raid, then you are missing out on the opportunity to roll on Druid caster gear for said raid and get locked out for the rest of the week. That's exactly the same as it is here, the only difference is that here technically all characters can use all gear, whereas in WoW a given class would only want 2-3 types of gear. -
12-06-2013, 05:10 PMDuelleThis.Quote:
Originally Posted by yamface
It's almost like most of the people crying about this have never seen how lockouts work. As I told a friend last night, the only downside in all of this is that we don't have multiple raids to get locked out of per week, and I'm hoping the number of high level raids increases as the game ages.
This really depends on where they'll take gearing. If they end up going the "armor piece token dropping from raid bosses" road that WoW has been doing since TBC, you can reasonably gear up an alt class if your FC uses DKP, suicide kings or free rolls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rochetm
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12-07-2013, 02:52 AMsylin
Yea I dislike the cookie cutter deal with specs, some variation within a class is a good thing, being able to spec them out for varying reasons is good too, I want more to stats than simply being focused on 1 main attribute or 1 main and 1 or 2 secondary, I mean does anyone actually think at all when they use their attribute points for most classes it seems like a set path to follow. The whole lockout thing makes sense as long as there is enough other stuff to do, all I can suggest is time, as time goes on there will be more options, because of its strict theme-parky style I would find leveling an entire alternate char not nearly as good as the first time, The problem lies in if they lifted lockouts, the end-gamers would complain of having to run the same content repeatedly. Kind of a lose lose situation. More avenues of progression are whats needed more options, more freedom. A lot of supposed sandbox mmos coming out soon, and some of those elements could make a good game even better.
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12-07-2013, 03:38 AMVesayth
If this community is actually supporting the decision to lock out loot to this extreme degree, I see no future in this otherwise fantastic game.
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Oh look, I'm the only class that can roll on this item, too bad I already picked up that ring from the last boss that was only a minor upgrade.
Man, nobody in this group wanted/needed that item, and I could use it for my alt spec. Too bad it's just going to disappear into the aether.
It's so exciting to have new content! Too bad I've run it once already this week and gotten loot, so I have no motivation to do it again because I can't possibly get rewarded for it.
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And you guys are supporting this. I really don't see the appeal. And this is only on top of this culture Squeenix is trying to build around encouraging players to play with strangers rather than with their friends. Locking out a dungeon itself every week is one thing, locking out the loot is something else entirely.
I'm not even particularly mad about just this one dungeon. I'm mad about the precedent that it sets for future patches. Is this kind of thing going to become the norm? If so, I'm probably going to leave faster than I'd expected.