Why Ingenuity I and not Ingenuity II ?

Hello :3
I have some crafts at lvl 50, and now im thinking to level blacksmith and carpenter for the skill Ingenuity II and Byregot's Blessing.
But in all the posts i see people using only Ingenuity I, why ? Isnt better Ingenuity II?
I'm thinking to level 1rst the BSM to 50 and then CRP to 50, but maybe is better level BSM to 15 and CRP to 50?
If someone can resolve my doubt could be great :D

Ingenuity I costs 24 CP. Ingenuity II costs 32 CP. For raising quality, Ingenuity I and II are identical. For raising progress, Ingenuity II is better than Ingenuity I, but you can raise your base craftsmanship to the point where Ingenuity I will allow you to fill progress 100% in two Standard Syntheses, same as Ingenuity II. Ingenuity II has its uses when you're using Careful Synthesis II, but otherwise, the extra CP consumed isn't worth it. It's useful enough that you should get it eventually, but if you're just starting out crafting, it'll do to get BSM to 15 and proceed to CRP.

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Originally Posted by XLauncher

Ingenuity I costs 24 CP. Ingenuity II costs 32 CP. For raising quality, Ingenuity I and II are identical. For raising progress, Ingenuity II is better than Ingenuity I, but you can raise your base craftsmanship to the point where Ingenuity I will allow you to fill progress 100% in two Standard Syntheses, same as Ingenuity II. Ingenuity II has its uses when you're using Careful Synthesis II, but otherwise, the extra CP consumed isn't worth it. It's useful enough that you should get it eventually, but if you're just starting out crafting, it'll do to get BSM to 15 and proceed to CRP.

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Ing I + 2 x Standard Synthesis = 24 + (2 x 15) = 54CP

Ing II + 3 x Careful Syntheses II = 32 +0 = 32CP

@OP
Get your Carpenter up to 50. BB is great for all kind of crafting.
Then get your BSM to 50. Ing II will save your money from forbidden melding in long run.

Ing 1 + 2 Standard Synth = 20 Durability

Ing 2 + 3 Careful Synth = 30 durability

That's the main difference.

Thanks guys! And Ingenuity also works with the HQ progress?

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Originally Posted by Faeye

Ing I + 2 x Standard Synthesis = 24 + (2 x 15) = 54CP

Ing II + 3 x Careful Syntheses II = 32 +0 = 32CP

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So, Ingenuity II is useful if Careful Synthesis II is available and should be made an eventual goal. Like I said.

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Ing 1 + 2 Standard Synth = 20 Durability

Ing 2 + 3 Careful Synth = 30 durability

That's the main difference.

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Right, I forgot to mention that. but wouldn't it require like 360 craftsmanship to finish with Ing1 + 2 Standard Synthesis?
Scratch that. That was dumb of me.

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Originally Posted by XLauncher

So, Ingenuity II is useful if Careful Synthesis II is available and should be made an eventual goal. Like I said.

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Depends on your craftmenship, you can fall short with carefulII synth even with II.

Generally speaking you should never need to use ingenuity if you have ingenuity2, because it applies to more then syth, but sometimes CP works out that way. The point is to calculate your CP needs and then work your way to "just enough" sometimes ingenuity is the saving of "just enough".

There is no need to finish a 2 star craft in 2 synth's, 3 is perfectly good. For a long time I was HQ'ing 2 stars while finishing in 5 synth's. Ing II has very limited usefulness and is not at all needed, Ing I is great.

On the other hand, Byregot's is a very important skill to have.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

There is no need to finish a 2 star craft in 2 synth's, 3 is perfectly good. For a long time I was HQ'ing 2 stars while finishing in 5 synth's. Ing II has very limited usefulness and is not at all needed, Ing I is great.

On the other hand, Byregot's is a very important skill to have.

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again, depends on craftmenship. There is a range where once you hit that craftmenship, everything magically becomes easier with ingenuity2.

A 370cp 100% suddenly turns into a 350cp 100% etc. or reverse.... a low craftsmanship becomes totally impossible to possible. (crafting with no AF is a pain without ingenuity2)

I've had to rely on ingenuity2 on serveral craft with a 275craftmenship because the job wasn't worth AF inventory

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Originally Posted by Faeye

Ing II will save your money from forbidden melding in long run.

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Doubt you can use Ing II when melding, how does it save money from forbidden melding?

Level Crp in advance of Blacksmith or level them together.

Blacksmith relies on a lot of other classes for components, Carpenter being one of them. Also I can say that all my rotations so far involve Byregot's Blessing. None of them involve Ingenuity, one or two. It isn't a matter of GP. It's a matter of cancelling out another action in my rotation trying to get it in to the sequence.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

again, depends on craftmenship. There is a range where once you hit that craftmenship, everything magically becomes easier with ingenuity2.

A 370cp 100% suddenly turns into a 350cp 100% etc. or reverse.... a low craftsmanship becomes totally impossible to possible. (crafting with no AF is a pain without ingenuity2)

I've had to rely on ingenuity2 on serveral craft with a 275craftmenship because the job wasn't worth AF inventory

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Your reply is pretty much in agreement with my quote "very limited usefulness".

With 275 craftsmanship, the hardest progress craft you'll be trying is 1 star 80 Dura, using Ing I you would finish with CSII x 3, that would be ideal when ending with Ing - GS - BB - CSII - CSII - CSII.

So from my pov, it's hardly worth leveling a craft to 50 for a skill you'll hardly ever need, if at all.

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Originally Posted by zsedc

Doubt you can use Ing II when melding, how does it save money from forbidden melding?

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sorry, I word poorly. That's not what I meant.
Ing II allow us to finish HQ 2 stars with lesser stats requirement which equate to lesser requirement in forbidden melding and/or melding.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Your reply is pretty much in agreement with my quote "very limited usefulness".

With 275 craftsmanship, the hardest progress craft you'll be trying is 1 star 80 Dura, using Ing I you would finish with CSII x 3, that would be ideal when ending with Ing - GS - BB - CSII - CSII - CSII.

So from my pov, it's hardly worth leveling a craft to 50 for a skill you'll hardly ever need, if at all.

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There are many much more worthless skills then ingenuity II and much more worthless 50 skills then ingenuity II.

Even careful synth II itself is fairly worthless in the bigger scheme of things.

You're just trying to draw a line in the sand when there's really a net of arbitrary lines, I have tapped ingenuity II way before I tap reclaim/flawless/innovation/WN2, etc, etc, etc.

Heck I haven't ever tapped flawless/WN2/reclaim ever, and innovation for rare lazyness, so that already bumps ingenuity II to 3rd-4th place.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9xaXB6vvs&hd=1

This is my current rotation and it works for both 40 and 80. Ingenuity isn't in there. With an 80 instead of 2 CS II you use four to end the Waste Not II and add a second comfort zone but the rotation pretty much stays the same.

I will add another vid later doing Finger sandwich. The method I am using isn't foolproof and the Finger Sandwich recipe allows you to see that. If someone tried to make a Philo mat 2 star with my Finger Sandwich rotation it would bite them in the ass but it works for 1 star stuff and allows you to make spirit bond grade gear, destined to be materia. The backbone to the entire crafting system really.

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

There are many much more worthless skills then ingenuity II and much more worthless 50 skills then ingenuity II.

Even careful synth II itself is fairly worthless in the bigger scheme of things.

You're just trying to draw a line in the sand when there's really a net of arbitrary lines, I have tapped ingenuity II way before I tap reclaim/flawless/innovation/WN2, etc, etc, etc.

Heck I haven't ever tapped flawless/WN2/reclaim ever, and innovation for rare lazyness, so that already bumps ingenuity II to 3rd-4th place.

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Being a more useful skill than WNII, Reclaim and Flawless, does not make it a useful/needed skill...

Flawless is of more use to most people, i.e. those leveling a new craft.

Also the fact you use Ing II, again does not make it needed.

"Limited usefulness" and "worthless" are not the same thing...

Instead of arguing with me about Ing II, why not answer the OP's question?

Should he get Byregot's + Ing or Ing II first?

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9xaXB6vvs&hd=1

This is my current rotation and it works for both 40 and 80. Ingenuity isn't in there. With an 80 instead of 2 CS II you use four to end the Waste Not II and add a second comfort zone but the rotation pretty much stays the same.

I will add another vid later doing Finger sandwich. The method I am using isn't foolproof and the Finger Sandwich recipe allows you to see that. If someone tried to make a Philo mat 2 star with my Finger Sandwich rotation it would bite them in the ass but it works for 1 star stuff and allows you to make spirit bond grade gear, destined to be materia. The backbone to the entire crafting system really.

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Why don't you have your ILevel 55 Main Tools yet? It's easy to get through your last class quest.

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Originally Posted by Faeye

Why don't you have your ILevel 55 Main Tools yet? It's easy to get through your last class quest.

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I have some, others I don't but I will make it a point of spirit bonding the 48 I leveled with in either case. The 55 main hands aren't needed for anything but two star and every spirit bond counts.

I can finish all my crafts with Ingenuity + Careful Synthesis x3, even if Ingenuity II allowed me to use one less Careful Synthesis it would still be irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by Ksenia

I have some, others I don't but I will make it a point of spirit bonding the 48 I leveled with in either case. The 55 main hands aren't needed for anything but two star and every spirit bond counts.

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It's not like crafting is the only way to spirit bond your out dated tools :)

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Originally Posted by Grembo

I can finish all my crafts with Ingenuity + Careful Synthesis x3, even if Ingenuity II allowed me to use one less Careful Synthesis it would still be irrelevant.



It's not like crafting is the only way to spirit bond your out dated tools :)

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Fishin in Patrician

Call it Ingenuity III

If you have the 347 in craftmanship needed to make the 2 star craft items hard on your gear you can finish any craft currently in the game with ingenuity 1 and 3 x carefull 2 making ingenuity 2 quite redundant.

Ingenuity 2 isn't really a skill you eventually need/want as it is now, it just one that may help when you try get your skills/gear together.

Byreot's Blessing on the other hand is almost essential for 2 star 100% HQ crafting, especially if you have to work with lots of non HQ mats.

That said when new recpies come things may obviously change.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Should he get Byregot's + Ing or Ing II first?

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neither. the 1st should be steadhands II. Blessing is important, but hardly "necessary". If you HQ, then begyrot is near pointless to the level advance synth is nearly equal.

And talking about 2stars when you're talking about blessing is a contradiction. No one is ready for 2 stars until you have a much much large array of cross skills.

The most probable one, can do on that level is 1star, and in such a case, neither would help much in such a case, as they would need a whole host of skills.

And leveling is debatable which skills you choose. I have done just as well during leveling crafts using II (because you don't get standard synth for a long time) to careful synth, to even innovation(totally unnecessary, but it's worked out well without blessing), etc.

Blessing isn't the end all of crafting. before we did blessing, we did tricks farming, and before that, we rely on good old raw stats.

You can do 2stars even without a single blessing, it's not that hard, just a little more random.

The reliance on blessing is what leads to these frivolous questions, because they forget about "crafting" and just remember "rotation". I would even say to go so far that blessing has ruined crafters ability to HQ better. When one's mind is solely wrapped up on a blessing, they can't adapt to different situations, and they are stuck in "I have to get blessing off, or else".

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Originally Posted by kukurumei

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Seems your only here to troll and not interested in actually answering the question, to be honest.

His cul was already 50...

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Originally Posted by Roth_Trailfinder

Ing 1 + 2 Standard Synth = 20 Durability

Ing 2 + 3 Careful Synth = 30 durability

That's the main difference.

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BUT, those two standard syntheses require steady hands to remain up, the three careful syntheses do not. Depending on your rotation, this could mean a 3rd steady hands for an extra 22 CP, or not.

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Originally Posted by Faeye

Ing I + 2 x Standard Synthesis = 24 + (2 x 15) = 54CP

Ing II + 3 x Careful Syntheses II = 32 +0 = 32CP

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The math above doesn't work; when you have enough craftsmanship to finish with Ingenuity I and 2 Standard Synthesis, you're well past the point where you need Ingenuity II to finish with 3 Careful Synthesis. Those might have been swapped, and the poster meant Ingenuity II and 2 standard synthesis (62 CP + possibly an extra 22 CP) vs Ingenuity I and 3 careful synthesis (24 CP). That leaves 38/60 CP for 10 durability, which depends on your rotation.

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Originally Posted by Eriya

If you have the 347 in craftmanship needed to make the 2 star craft items hard on your gear you can finish any craft currently in the game with ingenuity 1 and 3 x carefull 2 making ingenuity 2 quite redundant.

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This is definitely not the case for my rotation. Without Ing II I would need 10 more craftsmanship due to the face that IngII will only cover 2 of my CS2s. Below is the rotation I use.

IQ > CZ > WN > SH2 > BT x5 > SH > GS > Ing II > AT > GS > BB > CS2 x3.

Eh. I dont have BB yet (will level crp to get it as I know it's plenty useful), and atm Ingenuity I works wonders for me. For progress on HQ 2* I just pop Ingen 1 + Rapid Synth(SH2 will be up of course) to the end and it works just fine (though looking back I should prob just RS one time and CS2 from there considering the boost I get from Ingen 1 lol).

I just have WVR and GSM at 50. Dont even use Innovation really. Everything else is 15 with cul at 40. Ive 100% just fine on Vanya Healing/Casting, Rose Gold Circlet, and Rose Gold Ear Cuffs( dat moolah item). More times than not I'll aim for HQ twinthread or nuggets from hasty touch spam(just b/c why not make it easier on yourself?), but If I dont get HQ I still get by fine.

So imho, get the Blessing and use Ingen 1. You'll be gravy. Now if they introduce i80/i90 crafts but dont upgrade our gear? get Ingen II as well. But with the way crafting is going and the new gear that's coming from dungeons/extremes/moogle/CT, and the speed at which prices are dropping......it's not looking real good for us lol.

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Originally Posted by Grembo

It's not like crafting is the only way to spirit bond your out dated tools :)

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Can you share your secret with me? I have many partially bonded tools in my inventory.

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Originally Posted by e90guy

Can you share your secret with me? I have many partially bonded tools in my inventory.

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Apart of the main and secondary hand tools (of course) you can equip any other crafting or gathering gear to any other class and (let's say) run dungeons a few times, fates or grind for skins, fleece etc. For the main tools - just use them any time you need to produce a batch of ingots, threads, cloths or any other lower level (sub-)recepies. I've got rid of majority of my partially bonded tools in one afternoon like that. You can also use various Spirit bondig rate increasing gear items like Gambler's Crown, Patriot's Choker and Bracelet, Meteor Survivor Ring, of course the Aetheryte Rings itself plus GC Rings and Earings (Lilly and Serpent in Gridania / Twin Addler GC).