The fans will be here when it's all said and done

Back in the forums of Alpha/Beta testing phases, I created a thread titled 'The fans will be here when it's all said and done', where I pointed out my opinions on how this game, FFXIV 2.0 ARR, will endure despite the negativity expressed by a vocal minority. I feel the need to have this thread once again placed on the official forums.

In that previous thread, I theorized who would remain with this game and who would not based on a number of factors, which included fans of the Final Fantasy series, fans of the MMORPG genre and fans of video games/online games. Please note that this is opinion and while the general theory on the topic is based on a logical understanding of the game(s) and the genre over the years to current form, it does not apply to all.

We are here playing Square-Enix's latest title for what ever reasons brought us here. We are fans of the series of Final Fantasy games, we enjoy online computer video game entertainment, it's the newest MMORPG, etc,.. I personally happen to be playing for many of that. I grew up on Final Fantasy, ever since FF1 hit the NES. I was introduced to MMO's playing Everquest and almost soon after FFXI was released so I gravitated to it to combine my two passions in gaming.

Over the years, I've played several MMORPG's. Titles such as Aion, EvE, PotBS, EQ2, PSO, WoW, VG, LotRO, WAR, GW and most likely others I cannot remember at this time. However, I remained to FFXI for the majority of the years, with almost a modest amount of time with WoW.

One can know from having tried multipule MMORPG's that in general they all play the same. Character creation and development, PvP and/or End Game content. Understandably however there is usually only one reason why players would either stay with one game for a majority of the time or move to newest and latest game in the genre.

I submit here that we all have our reasons and we all choose what we want in the end. In general, those that move from game to game are those that usually are the end game players. They are able to form ties with other like minded players to quickly tackle and accomplish the end content. They are able to do this with such tenacity that eventually that is all they are left with, and log in to the game for that reason only. In my opinion only, this is the majority of players that move to MMO to MMO. Others may include players who just want to experience a new game all together. They have no tie to the game, the game's company or story.

Those that stay with a particular game for several years would be those that enjoy the game, story/lore content and community. Each minor update or patch in the game brings something new, no matter how small or big that content is. They can discuss storyline and certain quest chains almost at the letter and often do so with other like minded players. The form a bond with other long term players and usually form lasting friendships that extend beyond the game. In my opinion only, this is the majority of players that stay with a particular MMO. Others may include those who reach a certain level of experience and do not wish to start over. Personal computer limitations may restrict them from trying and playing with the latest game.

I only write this as I see a ton of threads written by others over the years on many different forums feeling the need to battle one another over various player types. Naturally we are all of different playstyles and and opinions. We all know the genre has evolved over the years and so too have the forums for those games. I notice more players would rather discuss and argue the type of MMORPG player they are, rather than the game itself.

In the end, the ones that will be here are the fans of this game and the FF series. Despite what we feel they game does or does not deliver they will be here and endure over the years. Those that leave may or may not come back for major content patches and expansions to once again tackle that end game. But overall be rest assured that there are those that will be here and be long term community members and leaders.

Some people are not happy unless they have something to complain about.

Others, most often teenagers and young adults complain for sport. They have been raised to believe that people actually care what they have to say. Its usually about 24-25 when they realize no one cares.

Maybe, maybe not.

haters love to hate, just ignore them!

The only thing I ever dislike are the words 'vocal minority' - there is nothing that I feel discredits something more than when someone uses this phrase. It is the wording of someone who has no substantial evidence, who insists that only their view on things are correct - more often than not.

However, I think your post is very good and shouldn't be discredited for this. I think you are right - at the end of the day, those who complain and whine and moan, will either -
A. stay, because complaints aside they enjoy the game
B. Leave, and move on to the next big MMO to either love/hate it. (ESO and WildStar online in this case.)

But even still. Those who complain serve a good role and shouldn't be discredited. They bring attention to things that might be wrong. They're not always right - and it's up to SquareEnix to have a good filter for it to decide what truly needs fixed.

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

Some people are not happy unless they have something to complain about.

Others, most often teenagers and young adults complain for sport. They have been raised to believe that people actually care what they have to say. Its usually about 24-25 when they realize no one cares.

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uh, so with your logic, why did you even post? since who care what you say?

Most of the people enjoying the game are simply playing it and enjoying it. They got better things to do. And the people who have a problem with it will most likely do something about it like post a thread. So if you take into account the fact that more players enjoying the game are also on the forum, then it's actually the people who don't like the game that are a minority cause if there was more people who dislike the game than liking it, then SE will surely notice and take drastic/immediate action. The fact that it hasn't occurred yet means there's hope for the game or there has always been hope for the game.

The players with patience that are worried probably know it'll get better while the others who aren't, will probably quit or complain about it. Either way, the game just started. It has years to come and will surprise even the players who stick around. This may be the future but take into account that SE like to bid their time and do things right. If you feel this isn't your type of game, then it's not the game's fault and most likely your taste. Back then, people wouldn't have so much expectations but now that they're more games to compare to and the enhance graphics/technology, people have way higher expectations than ever. Honestly, I think SE is doing a great job with the game. So just have patience cause it can only get better.

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Originally Posted by NoctisCaelus

-snippers-

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This is sort of the issue. This isn't necessarily proof - it's purely conjecture. The game could be bleeding subs (remember SWTOR? A lot of people insisted that people on the forums were just a 'vocal minority' there, as well) and we would have no way to see/prove it. Only via substantiated numbers can you actually call someone a 'vocal minority', otherwise, you're really just trying to put the other parties opinion on a lower platform than your own without any actual evidence.

I don't think the game is dying, I earnestly love and enjoy it. I'm leveling BRD and BLM right now to 50, and I am literally loving -every second- of it. I have a WHM, DRG, and SCH at 50 as well, all with Relic+1 weapons (probably a bad choice on my part.)

And I can agree with your second paragraph. I played FFXI for a long time because of how good SE was at progressing content, and keeping us interested in the game with a compelling story. I was a 75 BST, BRD, BLM, WHM, RDM there, too. :)

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

Some people are not happy unless they have something to complain about.

Others, most often teenagers and young adults complain for sport. They have been raised to believe that people actually care what they have to say. Its usually about 24-25 when they realize no one cares.

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What about those who actually have a problem with how things are handled?

Or are you going to degrade them as well?

Those who complain are a "vocal minority"

Those who defend the game are "White Knights" and "Fanboys"

Those who say nothing are "Enjoying the Game" or "Quitting for No Reason"

Apparently, SE shouldn't listen to any of these people, according to those that disagree with them.

Most of the MMOs you list OP were expected to endure the trolls, hate, flaming and unsubs as the fans here claim. Most are free to play or have slid into level of subs where many aren't sure if they're still online.

MMOs play the same because they insist on making them the same. It's a stretch to say that FFXI played the same as WoW, RIFT, or FFXIV unless you boil it down to "attacking a monster with weapons".

Weeeeeeeeeeeell...

The Fans were still playing 1.23 yet they still chose to redo it as ARR despite the fact people still payed to play FFXIV 1.x - So yes, fans will always be in MMOs no matter the situation, but MMOs these days can't be sustained by 'fans' alone - They wouldn't have made ARR so generic if they weren't trying to cut into a bigger slice of pie. FFXI for example maintains because it has a following of almost 11 years. New MMOs are literally going day by day praying people don't just drop it very early on.

It's a very different market now. And a Steeled said, it's a stretch, especially considering XI came first compared to the "giants of modern MMOs", heck WoW didn't come out until 2 1/2 years after XI and the same year as it's CoP expansion pack (2nd expansion btw.)

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

Some people are not happy unless they have something to complain about.

Others, most often teenagers and young adults complain for sport. They have been raised to believe that people actually care what they have to say. Its usually about 24-25 when they realize no one cares.

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As we all know; it is impossible to make everyone happy but there is a difference between out-right saying...
"This game sucks balls. QQ cry I hate everyone fanboys, WoW noops" and "I think the game could have...."
aka Suggestions or state why this game isn't appealing to them, which should be taken into consideration.
Of course, here we have people having their guns ready. If people didn't have feedback and left, it would make the game worse in the long run
as no one knows why people left. I think the Dev's and the whole SE team should care...who care's if you don't care, you're not the creator.
So people does not think this game grade A is teenagers? That makes sense...Jebers.

So, at the end of the day, sure fans will stick, some will not. But as Tupsi said, they can't sustain this game alone.
See 1.0 for more details. Even fans leave games no matter how bad it is. Game will grow. Just needs really "worth coming back to." material.
We shall see.

Thanks OP that was a good post. It really made me think, and you know I dont think this game is much different from any other that launches and is still going or, is already dead. I like you have played many a MMO, and really all of there boards are filled, to the same extent like ours are. WoW boards cry the end of the world when classes get respeced, people hate on blizzard, the producers, the players, you name it (just not the customer service lol). In the end they are all the same, its only the players perspective that changes how they think and feel. I love the FF series. I started playing FF8, I played 11 for 7 years, I met my husband on my server, I met friends I still talk to. This game is about community for me. And its the community I am happiest in despite the problems with the game. People can cry white knighting or whatever else they want but its not. I like apples, maybe you hate them, it doesn't mean apples are bad, its just my perspective, it doesn't make me right or you wrong.

If CCP ever fix Black Ops battleships I'm out. I won't say for how long but I will return to EVE for that.

I don't know what the percentage is of ARR players that have that level of priority loyalty. That really does determine the base you are talking about.

I see FF14 as having around 50K true base. The 50K that played 1.00

Yes the fans will stay. It won't be anywhere near enough but they'll stay. Game will go down, but they'll stay...

/comfort

The main problem is that the majority of the posters here are divided in two equally blind groups.

Group 1: Everything Yoshi or Square Enix does is fine. Never want to say a negative word about the game.
Group 2: Everything Yoshi or Square Enix does is wrong. Never can say "good job" when something is added or changed.

As long as we don't stop belonging to one of those groups the forums are useless.

I have the feeling lots of players are comparing the subscription amounts of this game with WoW. No game will pass WoW within the next 5 years. Final Fantasy XI was not popular at all. However it managed to be the game Square Enix made the most money with! Even after 11 years it is still going strong, bringing out patches every 2-3 months and they even released another expansion a few months ago.

Final Fantasy XIV doesn't need 1.5 million subscriptions to survive for 10 years. Square Enix will keep supporting it for years to come even if the amount of subscriptions will go all the way down to 300.000-400.000.

Give the game some times for crying out loud.

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

The only thing I ever dislike are the words 'vocal minority' - there is nothing that I feel discredits something more than when someone uses this phrase. It is the wording of someone who has no substantial evidence, who insists that only their view on things are correct - more often than not..

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Let me clarify what I meant. Those that post on the forums in general are the vocal minority. Most of those that play the game never post on the forums at all, for complaint or praise. More would visit the forums, official or fan-based, but to simply read up on current events. Myself personally, I would not come to the forums to lodge a complaint or even to make a suggestion. The in game feature I believe would receive better attention.

That's not to say what is posted here is folly. I am saying it's not where the game's developers would rely upon for suggestion on how to possibly improve the overall gameplay. It's only logical to think that they would use in game server tools to view all that they need. They can see how many are online, when, where, for how long and what they do during their time spent in game.

I did not mean to leave the term vocal minority as a label to insult, as one would use such terms as fanboy, or white knights. Only to say what the term implies. Those that post here for any reason are a minority for the overall player population in game.

I speak for the majority the music is terrible in this game and puts me to sleep.

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Originally Posted by ApolloGenX

Those who complain are a "vocal minority"

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Yes. This is the term that some people use when they feel like riding around on their high horse to spread their opinion, but don't or can't provide actual statistics to back it up. When I see it used seriously I generally stop reading a post. It's hard to swallow anything afterwards.

I'll be here at the end of the day, because i'm a Final Fantasy fan. However, don't think for one second i'm not going to voice my concerns to make this game better.

Kissing up doesn't help anything.

The fans may still be here when it's said and done, but that won't mean anything if everyone else has quit and the game developers aren't making enough money to keep the game afloat. The type of die hard fan players who will play a game simply because of it's brand name and style despite how good or bad the game is is not the type of player that a gaming company should cater too.

Just look at SWtoR, it's the perfect example. It had die hard Star Wars fans that would have stayed with it no matter what because, well, they love Star Wars. But that didn't save the game from dropping huge sub numbers only a few months in, causing massive drops in income for Bioware, which also caused them to have to lay off tons of staff, and forced the game model to change to their current terrible F2P/paid content model in order to keep maintaining any form of profit.

"vocal minority" is nothing but a buzz word used by those who don't like others views so they try to make it seem like they don't matter. Most of the time they are just insecure about criticisms a certain game is getting.

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Originally Posted by Doo

I speak for the majority the music is terrible in this game and puts me to sleep.

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Perhaps the problem isn't music, but you?

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Originally Posted by Arale

Perhaps the problem isn't music, but you?

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Ud'lah music don't put you to sleep?

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Originally Posted by Doo

Ud'lah music don't put you to sleep?

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It does, as it's my least favorite, but it doesn't put me to sleep for the same reasons. It's too mellow. Whereas Gridania's is less so and Limsa's is the loudest of the 3.

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Originally Posted by Arale

It does, as it's my least favorite, but it doesn't put me to sleep for the same reasons. It's too mellow. Whereas Gridania's is less so and Limsa's is the loudest of the 3.

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I dunno, the music just doesn't seem like it fits, like I'm fishing in Aleport for red coral and there's battle music going while I'm trying to relax and fish. Fishing suppose to be relaxing not feel intense. Seems like the game really lacks "happy" music. But yeah it's just a personal taste I was just messing around.

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Originally Posted by Doo

I dunno, the music just doesn't seem like it fits, like I'm fishing in Aleport for red coral and there's battle music going while I'm trying to relax and fish. Fishing suppose to be relaxing not feel intense. Seems like the game really lacks "happy" music. But yeah it's just a personal taste I was just messing around.

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I know. I loathe the normal battle themes, but I love all the boss themes. Some tracks really are hit and miss. :3

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Originally Posted by Eidolon

The only thing I ever dislike are the words 'vocal minority' - there is nothing that I feel discredits something more than when someone uses this phrase. It is the wording of someone who has no substantial evidence, who insists that only their view on things are correct - more often than not.

However, I think your post is very good and shouldn't be discredited for this. I think you are right - at the end of the day, those who complain and whine and moan, will either -
A. stay, because complaints aside they enjoy the game
B. Leave, and move on to the next big MMO to either love/hate it. (ESO and WildStar online in this case.)

But even still. Those who complain serve a good role and shouldn't be discredited. They bring attention to things that might be wrong. They're not always right - and it's up to SquareEnix to have a good filter for it to decide what truly needs fixed.

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Sorry man but the people complaining about the game are the vocal minority. Most people playing this game are doing just that- playing the game, completely uninterested in taking part in the forums. Most of those people are probably also enjoying the game. It is the vocal minority that actually stops playing the game for a period of time in order to go to the forums and express their opinion. Most players probably don't even use forums.

Basically, the amount of people playing the game, not taking part in forums, not voicing their opinion, greatly outweighs the amount of people that do. Thus the term, vocal minority.

The number of complaints will dwindle over time, and not necessarily because the game is improving, but because those dissatisfied will quit. People may think the community is becoming accustomed to SE's "designs", when in fact those that stay are just extremely loyal fans, finding fun in unique ways, or a rolling supply of new players.

It's like the opposite of "preaching to choir", it's like preaching biblical damnation in a room full of scientists.

It happens with every MMO, and then one day--relatively soon--you look around to find the zones that used to be packed seemingly empty or AFK, perhaps aside from one or two "primetime" days after each reset.

More resets, or lack of raid locks at all doesn't give more to do, just changes the pace with how quickly people are done with what there is to do. If Coil had no lock, many groups would be done with it in the first week or two.

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Originally Posted by Steeled

It happens with every MMO, and then one day--relatively soon--you look around to find the zones that used to be packed seemingly empty or AFK, perhaps aside from one or two "primetime" days after each reset.

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I bet you can't wait for this to happen.

Nah, actually, I'm sad.

I miss really enjoying an MMO. I no longer ask what's wrong with the games I'm playing, but what's wrong with me that the wonder is gone.

Though I enjoyed wow for a couple of years, I may never enjoy a game like it again, which is depressing because that's all that's churned out.

After everything is said and done it doesn't matter what neither the haters nor the white knights say about the game.

Subs will say it all, and if SE is able to provide whatever is required to keep people playing or at least having a healthy revolving door of casuals then XIV will last, if they can't it will just die. Regardless of what the forums think about it.

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Originally Posted by LordMaitreya

I bet you can't wait for this to happen.

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Only reason I'd say I want to see this happen: All the people who tell those who don't like 100% of the game to leave will be left wondering where everyone went or struggling to do even basic content or even FATES because, heh well they told people with any complaints to leave lol.

Honestly, it happens with every MMO as he said, ARR isn't safe from it and it's a sad fact because MMOs used to be the one game you can boot up and see so full of life outside of towns as towns are generally full of AFK shops.

Im a fan of the FF series and of this game, that said, I wont be around in the end if this game doesnt change drastically.

I want to play an MMO with a world that has a lot more to offer, rather than instance after instance.

If I wanted to sit around waiting to queue up for everything in game, I'd be playing an FPS, and please don't come at me saying how there's other stuff to do in game. This game revolves around DF and its instances, nothing else is relevant, and this is the problem, not lack of content.

The funny thing is..a Japanese article I read was talking about the DQ MMO and FFXIV. They said FFXIV is for the hardcore.

We are all doomed lol. D:

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

The funny thing is..a Japanese article I read was talking about the DQ MMO and FFXIV. They said FFXIV is for the hardcore.

We are all doomed lol. D:

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Hey, if you are a salary man with barely any time to play, then this game can be pretty hardcore. ;)

When all is said & done, there is always more said than done.

http://www.dualshockers.com/2013/07/...0-or-20-years/

Here is the article if anyone cares hehe

Well I stand as is. We the fans will be here. This game will not go F2P ever. Mark my words now. We'll always have this game, and it'll be successful for SE. IS his a true statement? No, because it's opinion. But i'll endue. Will it go F2P? Time will tell, but the game will still endure. I am counted as one of the supporters. I'll be here.

Oh, it seems some of you want to hang on to my comment of "vocal minority" as a negative. I promise I didn't mean it as such. None the less, continue to use it as such. I only meant to say that a majority of the forum posters are not in any way the majority of the player base. That's all