Fairly hefty discrepancy between WHM and SCH

Cutter's Cry (38) 2nd boss Giant Tunnel Worm.

Worm puts a Sludge Dot on a random party member that lasts for forever and a day. With a WHM/CNJ it's a simple matter of Esuna and you're on your way. However, SCH doesn't get Leeches until level 40. This seems like a large unfair discrepancy.

As my main WHM, healing through that boss is easy. Ran today as a PLD with a SCH healer and he had a bear of a time keeping everyone up due to being unable to dispell the debuff. I know this is probably the ONLY situation where this comes up...but what gives? Poor SCH...

Scholar can simply cast adlo on the debuffed party member. The shield will absorb dot damage so that they can be topped off, which should keep them healthy enough for the duration of the debuff. Now brayflox on the other hand...

Well Cutter's Cry is for 38-40, so if a Scholar feels like they can't handle healing through the debuffs, they should wait until 40 to do it. It can be healed through without leeches, though, I did it at 38 on my Scholar. As long as your group doesn't get hit by all the avoidable stuff on the last boss, it's not that hard.

I have to agree with Kelmana. I have healed through both Cutter's Cry and Brayflox at level as both a WHM and a Scholar. I actually found it much easier to heal through as a Scholar.

I do, however, think it's dumb that Scholars don't get their dispel until level 40.

I'm not placing the blame fully on SCH design, btw. I felt fairly sure that he could've healed through it, he just wasn't very good period :) But being able to Leech would've made it easier, at least.

The flip side of the coin is that Whm doesn't get self mp refresh till much later, so it all kind of evens out.

Is it just me or I feel that SCH's powerfulness increases as their gears go up. I think a full 90 scholar does wonders compared to full 90 WHM, except for the lack of Holy. Like for example.. I do think that twintania's 2nd phase would be half as hard with 2 scholars than 1 scholar and 1 whm. (dunno entire fight, only got up to snakes) but things like WP speedruns are going to be WHM aced. So it's like Scholar= devoted entirely for heals and WHM= half dps half heals..

I totally agree that not having a way to cure debuff until so late REALLY sucks. But in the situation you described, it is actually avoidable. Just make sure you Adlo the person who is about to be hit, and he won't receive the debuff. It may require either knowledge of the fight and practice, or just a lot of preemptive bubbling.

I don't have my SCH up yet, but running that fight as a WHM I rarely, if ever used Esuna. I always kept Stoneskin on everyone (but tank) and never had to deal with it. I've assumed that the SCH's effect would work fine there, and based on what's been said in the thread I was right.

But yeah, healing through it is also possible...Brayflox and all the poison, anyone?

Never had issues with a SCH healing Brayflox or Cutter's Cry as long as they were paying attention to what they should be doing. What I have seen however is in AK and WP, the SCH's don't like to even use leeches often.

On a sidenote, the only issue I see is the Fairies dropping on the 1st and Last Boss in AV. I wouldn't mind seeing fairies receive AOE Resistance or Immunity. But even in AV, a SCH can heal it no problem if they pay attention. Course paying attention and positioning for many DF healers is a problem. But a problem they simply need to fix themselves.

Brayflox was easier as a scholar and so was CC. Maybe it was experience, with my WHM being my first class, or gear, or both. I found it incredibly easy to heal both these dungeons. You just had a bad healer. No arsonal of skills would have helped him.

I've been doing Brayflox as WHM and SCH and its pretty equal (mana management for WHM, working with poison stacks for SCH). I've done Cutter's Cry only as SCH and Stone Vigil as well recently. I found myself often in difficulty when deadling with frequent AoE (Stone Vigil especially). Does anyone would have advice on this ?

In general, I found that SCH is better when you already know the fights.

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Originally Posted by Richiealvian

Is it just me or I feel that SCH's powerfulness increases as their gears go up. I think a full 90 scholar does wonders compared to full 90 WHM, except for the lack of Holy. Like for example.. I do think that twintania's 2nd phase would be half as hard with 2 scholars than 1 scholar and 1 whm. (dunno entire fight, only got up to snakes) but things like WP speedruns are going to be WHM aced. So it's like Scholar= devoted entirely for heals and WHM= half dps half heals..

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Perhaps, if Adloqium stacked. I would say for that fight that 2xSCH would probably work better than 2xWHM, simply because of Death Sentence (which as you're progressing through the fight will still cause you more wipes than any of her other mechanics). But WHM/SCH is still the ideal combination, the fight still has it's moments of intense healing requirements where WHM is very useful.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Never had issues with a SCH healing Brayflox or Cutter's Cry as long as they were paying attention to what they should be doing. What I have seen however is in AK and WP, the SCH's don't like to even use leeches often.

On a sidenote, the only issue I see is the Fairies dropping on the 1st and Last Boss in AV. I wouldn't mind seeing fairies receive AOE Resistance or Immunity. But even in AV, a SCH can heal it no problem if they pay attention. Course paying attention and positioning for many DF healers is a problem. But a problem they simply need to fix themselves.

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I had Eos out during Aurum Vale and checked her buff window. She was at 50%hp and just embracing herself away with 9 stacks of that debuff... Inefficient use of Embrace, but hey. I'd recommend for those fights that SCHs have swiftcast and just resummon after so many stacks.

As for the lack of Leeches until 40... as a SCH who went from 32-38 almost 100% from Brayflox I know this discrepancy well. It is doable, but man that poison is rough. CC is little different but I never had much issue with it particularly when using shields effectively.

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Originally Posted by Gaarv

I've been doing Brayflox as WHM and SCH and its pretty equal (mana management for WHM, working with poison stacks for SCH). I've done Cutter's Cry only as SCH and Stone Vigil as well recently. I found myself often in difficulty when deadling with frequent AoE (Stone Vigil especially). Does anyone would have advice on this ?

In general, I found that SCH is better when you already know the fights.

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SCH is a proactive healer with very poor ability to react to unexpected damage. As a result, you're better off pre-bubbling everyone with Succor rather than trying to heal everyone up after the fact.

I dunno, I had no issues healing through Cutter's Cry or Brayflox as SCH. I thought it was easier on SCH than it was on WHM.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

On a sidenote, the only issue I see is the Fairies dropping on the 1st and Last Boss in AV. I wouldn't mind seeing fairies receive AOE Resistance or Immunity. But even in AV, a SCH can heal it no problem if they pay attention. Course paying attention and positioning for many DF healers is a problem. But a problem they simply need to fix themselves.

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That's really annoying. I don't think fairies should get those debuffs, since there's no way to get rid of it. Also, I beat Titan tonight (my first time making it through without dying, yay!) and she almost died on the last phase.

I just unlocked Scholar recently and easily healed Brayflox; Adloq is more than enough to handle it - but I don't think that was the OP's point. If they are going to design boss fights and content with certain mechanics in mind, then there has to be an equivalency in dealing with those mechanics. AKA- if at 30+ you want healers to dispel, then you had better give both healers dispel at 30 :)

Of course it can be brute forced with Adloq, but it shouldn't have to be.

Don't remember having any issue in this dungeon as SCH.... Aurum Vale however..... T_T

Healed every Dungeon as SCH. It is doable but Bray and Cutters does take some help from having skilled (or at least not bad) party members. I started leveling up WHM for a while, have not done Cutters yet but Bray was stupid easy with WHM. However, the despondency goes away after 40 and both healers have very different roles to play and both are amazing especially when in combination. ^^ Just gota plug through it OR go SMN till you get Leeches. ^^

Fairy alone can outheal every dot in Brayflox or Cutter.

I often alternated between going WHM and SCH on brayflox runs, depending on my mood. In general, even when the tank stays in red zones, I found it more manageable to heal through on SCH than use esuna on WHM.

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Originally Posted by Erwhindal

Cutter's Cry (38) 2nd boss Giant Tunnel Worm.

Worm puts a Sludge Dot on a random party member that lasts for forever and a day. With a WHM/CNJ it's a simple matter of Esuna and you're on your way. However, SCH doesn't get Leeches until level 40. This seems like a large unfair discrepancy.

As my main WHM, healing through that boss is easy. Ran today as a PLD with a SCH healer and he had a bear of a time keeping everyone up due to being unable to dispell the debuff. I know this is probably the ONLY situation where this comes up...but what gives? Poor SCH...

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Just another case of some random not knowing how to play their class honestly.

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Originally Posted by peaches

I totally agree that not having a way to cure debuff until so late REALLY sucks. But in the situation you described, it is actually avoidable. Just make sure you Adlo the person who is about to be hit, and he won't receive the debuff. It may require either knowledge of the fight and practice, or just a lot of preemptive bubbling.

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Precisely. If the target of the debuff takes no damage, the debuff does not proc. Keeping Stoneskin on all the non-tank members and smart use of Adloquium will keep that debuff from even showing up in that fight.

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Originally Posted by Waliel

Fairy alone can outheal every dot in Brayflox or Cutter.

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This. No need for leeches in the 30s because a properly placed Eos does all of the work anyway.

I agree. Some fool at SE really overlooked this.

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Originally Posted by Gaarv

I've been doing Brayflox as WHM and SCH and its pretty equal (mana management for WHM, working with poison stacks for SCH). I've done Cutter's Cry only as SCH and Stone Vigil as well recently. I found myself often in difficulty when deadling with frequent AoE (Stone Vigil especially). Does anyone would have advice on this ?

In general, I found that SCH is better when you already know the fights.

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Running as a SMN main, I realized that I am incredibly rusty as a healer.
I haven't healed in a long time, focusing on getting my other classes leveled.
Healing and to a certain extent Scholar specifically, is probably one of the jobs that you need to be on top of your game all the time.

I helped out a FC member last night in SV as SCH and I confess that I was very self-conscious about my job.
It is important though that we look at our job and realize and accept our shortcomings and fix them.
Know what you have to do to become better and get it done.

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Originally Posted by necrosis

I agree. Some fool at SE really overlooked this.

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lol necrosis your name is correct you resurrect old threads

Well while its revived.

I will say that using adlo in this fight isn't as simplified as brayflox. And since I don't get leeches until 1 level away from leaving cutter's that's kind of annoying. My adlos only hit for almost 300 and the sludge ticks for 150 and is active for 20 secs. Luckily the last worm boss only targeted the bard lolz.

Brayflox aside, I really feel like leeches at 35 would have been nice (._.)

I still remember saying that SCHs have an advantage at brayflox level over WHMs.

Esuna is nice... but aetherflow, fairy, and bane is better. WHMs don't get regen at bray either. SCHs don't need to commit to casting themselves to healing every bit of damage that happens. WHMs are pretty shallow at that level.

Cutter's... never had a problem with that place, even without leeches. Might have to cast a few more heals, if that, but it's not crippling.

It doesn't matter... It's all about player skills.
WHMs are traditional final fantasy healers. Thus, they have exactly what they should have, and so Schs. I personally solo healed extremes as a white mage, and I have seen Sch who have done fantastic job.. That even made me wanna try Schs. They both have positive and negative side in them. We can't just pick single unique ability from one class and add it to another. Both healers shouldn't be the same. Once you get your gear and start doing end games. It's no longer about who got dispel eailer. But, how you going to play the class.

Since we have no hard 4 man dungeons( and likely stay this way) it's a non issue.

in 8 mans, rarely will a sch and a whm every cross paths in duties. Especially 2.2 content. They are just too different and need to be different.

You can't compare them where they need to be compared.

I didn't have time to read through all pages, since I'm leaving to work in a bit, but in case no-one else told: SCH's are pre-emtpive healers, they have shields and dmg taken reducting abilities, so I'm advising on getting stoneskin for yourself.

With a full stoneskin (hasn't take any hit after getting it) the DoT of the Abyss Worm doens't take effect (or atleast didn't before 2.28) because the stoneskin doesn't get broken.

Some other uses for stoneskin is also for example at WP's last boss which, for some reason, has gotten to 6 stacks and the tank tanking doens't have Holmgang/Hallowed Ground at that moment(and isn't ilvl90+ tank with alot of experience:
Cast adloquium -> stoneskin -> another adloquium and throw a virus on the Tonberry King(and if you want to take this to extreme, throw the Sacred Soil too) and then, you just have successfully saved your tank from certain death.

To get back to topic(kinda): SCH's can heal every dungeon in this game, it's just a matter of thinking as a scholar, not as a white mage when healing. This is my first MMO, and well, SCH was the first of the two healers I had at 50, and because of that I just suck at healing as a WHM cause I can't switch to thinking as a WHM when healing on WHM.