Greetings,
Thought I would make a post regarding recent discussions with my fellow adventurers :
1) Square Enix is First & Foremost a Company Concerned About Making a Profit.
Having said this, wouldn't it have made logical sense to have hired temporary extra developmental hands & focus everyone on key development issues of dire need first? Going from one area to the next.
Instead they have chosen to break the already small development team (Going by the picture posted in December) into even smaller groups and work on aspects in parallel of one another.
I'm sorry but from a business aspect of things, doesn't a company with dire problems want to fix them ASAP rather than drag out the problems for what seems as long as possible in order to save money?
If Square Enix had to to be ones to fix the PSN when it got hacked, it would have been down for at least a year.
2) "Please be patient with us a little while longer" Just Doesn't Cut It For Me.
Having to wait 4 months (discounting 2 months for the new dev team to get settled in and another month for the earthquake.) for a company that's already notoriously slow for fixing things, for what may or may not be decent content at all, is long enough for most people.
You can post all the Walls-O-Text you want about changes and everything, but until myself & the rest of the world see actual changes, it's nothing more than smoke & mirrors.
This isn't your first MMO.. Quit acting like it is..
3) Drop the Cream Puff Content
No one currently playing FF14 is a casual gamer. That being said please make any and all monsters in upcoming content about 1000x harder than the Care Bear Troupe of mobs that you dared to label as Notorious Monsters.
Take a page from FF11 and inject this game with some seriously hard content.. It desperately needs it!
Having a hard fight or area that takes weeks (not hours) to perfect a strategy for and successfully beat is what Final Fantasy should be known for, not mashing enter 1000x while watching Netflix.
Difficult content keeps people coming back because it provides a challenge that's not easily beat in 1-2 hrs. What's the point of adding in monthly patches after the game comes off FTP if everyone playing beats all of the new content in a matter of hours? INJECT SOME STEROIDS INTO THAT CONTENT!
I want to see this game flourish... and see more than 4 people in Limsa Lominsa or Gridinia at any given time.
Get on the ball SE.. because your running out of time!
Food For Thought About This Game's Current Development...
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05-31-2011, 01:00 PMMizoreShirayukiFood For Thought About This Game's Current Development...
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05-31-2011, 01:10 PMJoeking
1) Wada is the cause, Enix isn't though there still providing good games, and probably won't venture into the MMO scene.
2) Technically you can say it is there first MMO that tries to cater to more than FFXI crowd, though it ended up catering to no one.
3) I would say difficulty isn't an issue but that the quality of the content itself. -
05-31-2011, 01:12 PMKilta_Firelotus
they delayed several games just to bring in more teams to iron out the stuff
to bad stuff takes time to code.
casual =/= easy get off you high horse :)
ffxi wasn't hard just time consuming. -
05-31-2011, 01:42 PMCairdeas
Inpatient *** being Inpatient.
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05-31-2011, 01:50 PMClevene
no need to put in hard stuff if in a few months they raise the cap, then you will say these mobs are too easy and the same fight happens again. we are not even close to endgame stop asking for it. and with xi mobs everyone would just look up a strat on wiki and set it up, pretty rare to find a group that would just try to 'figure it out.'
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05-31-2011, 02:15 PMMeowyWowieI don't think the OP is asking for endgame. If you haven't noticed, FFXIV is arguably the easiest MMO on the market today. S/he was just saying make it harder.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clevene
Also, saying that people will only look up wiki for strategies is irrelevant. Somebody has to come up with the strategy to be able to post it online. FFXI had some pretty tough fights before any strategies were made public and when the content was still fresh. Your comment can be applied to any game out there, not just FFXI. Once there's a working strategy content is no longer difficult. Coming up with a strategy is what makes things difficult and, well let's face it, fun. -
05-31-2011, 02:17 PMStarlordIf they did then why are we currently still on free trail after 8 months? I say making a profit here is an understatementQuote:
Square Enix is First & Foremost a Company Concerned About Making a Profit.
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05-31-2011, 02:24 PMTeknoman
Well along with the battle system implementation, alot of class/skill changes, restrictions, enemy stat adjustment, placement, and equipment changes/balancing are supposed to occur to make things more challenging/match with the new system...so everyone is looking toward 1.18.
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05-31-2011, 02:44 PMBetelgeuzah
There's amazingly many things wrong about everything in the OP but I'll just mention few:
What you can't seem to understand is that you don't simply throw more bodies at the problem for it to go away any faster. You don't simply bring people unfamiliar with the project to work on it. You need the people that were there from the start. Designers are in a different position, yet you don't need that many of them- more would simply make the decision process even slower. You don't understand game development.Quote:
Having said this, wouldn't it have made logical sense to have hired temporary extra developmental hands & focus everyone on key development issues of dire need first? Going from one area to the next.
The team is four times the size in that picture. Yoshida even mentioned this in the exact same letter. Their team is huge, it could be larger but at this point it would only hurt them to add more unfamiliar programmers.Quote:
Instead they have chosen to break the already small development team (Going by the picture posted in December) i
They can't fix problems one at time because everything relates to everything. There has to be a larger picture: combat (and everything it involves), class system, UI, engine, servers, content- everything has to work together flawlesly. They must be developed in a parallel because building new features off concepts alone does not work. Concepts never meet reality. In the end you have an UI, a combat system, a class system and content that are separated from each other and make no sense.
What you don't seem to grasp is that they aren't fixing this game with your terms. They are doing what makes it fastest for them to update the game in long-term, and that involves not splitting their workload to smaller pieces so that it can be implemented to live servers every month which would slow them down considerably. You lack the understanding needed to realize that this project is larger than anything any developer has ever made post-release, and as thus takes longer to develop.Quote:
Having to wait 4 months (discounting 2 months for the new dev team to get settled in and another month for the earthquake.) for a company that's already notoriously slow for fixing things, for what may or may not be decent content at all, is long enough for most people
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05-31-2011, 03:00 PMPeregrineHahaha oh lordy I see a few in the crowd still fall for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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05-31-2011, 03:02 PMBetelgeuzah
Now that I think about it, there's NGE for SWG. But I dunno the details on that one.
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05-31-2011, 03:46 PMBesbesetStill I don't get this....Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilta_Firelotus
So, if I can beat XXXX <-- (type here any challenging thing on a game) on lets say.... 2 days, you will call it easy?
And if I do it on 1 week you will call it time consuming?
Then, where is the hard stuff? nowhere?
Think about this. There are things on your life, like performing a career that takes time. And that's something hard, and time consuming of course, because time consuming usually means that you need plenty of time to do something... why? because is hard, simply as that.
Then we could debate/discuss as if something that is time consuming is fun or monotonous, but this is completely a different thing.
If you make something hard it will ALWAYS be time consuming. If someone implements an event/battle in game and that even/battle is accomplished in no time, is called an easy/casual thing for obvious reasons.
I don't know if I explained my self right, but really I don't understand when people talks about things being hard but no time consuming. IMO that's impossible. -
05-31-2011, 03:51 PMSuzakuCMXKilta means that there was no skill or innovation involved in doing anything in FFXI (at least when he/she played) but doing anything took a while and people mistook that for hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Besbeset
Not that I agree with him/her. -
05-31-2011, 04:13 PMShinChuckFor one, I doubt the original poster is staying in the hospital awaiting treatment. Second, you might not agree with the original poster (I don't, on about half their post), but ignoring their whole point just to name-call (and fail at it, no less) just devalues your own stance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cairdeas
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05-31-2011, 04:32 PMTezz_Xivectro
It should take a good while to complete content while at the same time not seemingly time consuming. It just needs to be masked better so people will actually find stuff fun (same with the grind. etc.).
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05-31-2011, 04:45 PMHonz
I agree with OP this game needs harder content. People who are having trouble with current content being too hard are well just casuals. Nothing wrong with being a casual just don't let jealousy get such a strong grip on you. :p
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05-31-2011, 04:57 PMRentahamsterAnd you do?Quote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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05-31-2011, 05:56 PMBetelgeuzahEnough in this context.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rentahamster
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05-31-2011, 06:27 PMMackunderstatement, meaning you think they are out to make much more than a profit? I get what you were trying to say but your choice of wording isn't proper. SE is obviously first and foremost concerned with making a profit, the game is still free because they believe they can drag it out another year without losing much money, they have treated this as a year long beta and they humor us along the way until they have an actual game on their hands. Trust me, SE isn't giving us free play out of good will or because they felt bad for us...a business' main concern is "maximize profit at any expense" and nothing will change that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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05-31-2011, 10:18 PMStarlord8 months without a drop of money from a game.. Yes every company looks for a profit yes theirs no doubt about that. Even us that play the game look for a profit within our jobs, there is no doubt about that. but for a company for almost a year now let us play a game while losing a TON of cash, just to make this game right for the community again That is noble to me. Yes this is still betaish.. but what company "thats suppose to be P2P" went almost a year after releasing a game Lets us play for free as they make the game right. They could have very easily Shut down their servers save some cash as they fix the game, then release the PS3 version as a fresh start? Yes, that would be trying to make a profit "in the long run" while curbing their losses for the time being, while getting this game straight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
Yes I did use the wrong wording for that sorry, I was partying with the same group of people for 12 hrs straight. At the end of that my mind was shot lmao! -
05-31-2011, 10:49 PMSephr
I agree with Starlord here, the fact they've kept it running for free should be a show of their dedication (you can guarantee the higher-ups will be asking Yoshida about his progress every damn day) to fixing the game and their confidence that they can do it.
Pretty much goes unnoticed by a lot of people, though. -
05-31-2011, 10:59 PMCatapultHi, nice to meet you. I'm a casual player.Quote:
Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki
See that profile in my sig? This is from casual play since release. Get used to it!
I'd prefer it if they didn't make everything only for endgame, thank you very much.
Those most-recent NMs were quite a challenge for someone like me who doesn't have anything approaching rank-cap yet. It felt really only satisfying just managing to take down the nest-commander solo at Rank 30, I might add. -
05-31-2011, 11:34 PMBetelgeuzahThere is nothing noble about it. They do it because they can. Most companies can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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05-31-2011, 11:43 PMStarlordoh well, you /fail to understand and thats all fine and well at least me and some other people notice their deedsQuote:
Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah
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06-01-2011, 12:06 AMRenshi
...
"..."
what
"what what. Argue with the argument."
Wha? Why!?
"Because that's what people wants."
No. This argument is stupid and I hate it.
"... pretty please?"
huuh... fine then.
Heya!
Again with this sh*t? We F*cking know this alread- "What the Hell are you saying!?"
Wha, you said me to argue with the argument!
"ARGUE LIKE A MAN!"
*shows genitals*
"... politely."
... Aaaah! Ok, got it =)
I think that we already know these sort of things. Every earning company strives for money, so SE is not the only one. Devs are telling Yoshi-P what we have in our mind, and it's up to Yoshi-P to be the judge. We can't have a real-time answer about what, how and maybe when the content will be up, as choices that might change the game have to be taken with white gloves (WHOO! METAPHOR!).
About the fact that no one is casual, I'd have a word with you, because I'm a casual player myself =)
I'm just an hardcore casual player, which means I play 1-2 hours every 2 weekdays, but I like very difficult things to do, because That's what gives the adventure the... the... Adventure!
So yeah, I'm up for some crazy hardcore content even though I'm casual.
In conclusion: I'll wait for the 1.18 patch and see if it turns out bacon, diamonds or stone. It's a matter of time! (Oh, what did I do thar =D)
See ya! There, ye happay?
"Yup yup =D"
Gurl, I had to show my Glory Stick to the entire forum. At least you could show your breasts.
"but I..."
SHOW YO TETTAYS!
*And the wish was never granted.* -
06-01-2011, 12:20 AMMaverick_HawkeyeYour knees must be getting sore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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06-01-2011, 12:25 AMAngryNixonFirst of all, that was terribly rude of you Maverick to imply that Starlord isn't intelligent enough to invest in knee pads. Second, I get the general trend of the OP's post, it's one of many in a long line of the same thing. The statement it makes though at the bottom is so far eternally true. SE is running out of time whether those who support this game without exception believe it or not. It will never die outright and instantly, I think that's a grave exaggeration. But there are very good products from other companies in the pipe and this game can be bled to death slowly over a protracted period of time, or a the very least condemned to obscurity. On a long enough timeline the only difference between a sudden mass exodus from game A to game B and a slow and steady stream is none at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverick_Hawkeye
Also, I think all those people with the "fine leave" attitude will find that the game is nowhere near as fun when everyone who's been told "fine leave" has said "fine" and left. -
06-01-2011, 01:04 AMJynxIf SE somehow can't manage with people on the forums complaining about how things are done, then the game was doomed either way. Some people need to know when to walk away if it's getting to be too hard for them to stay. If the game dies then so be it SE can and will move on and work on new projects.Quote:
Originally Posted by AngryNixon
I can guarantee you threads like these are not carving a path to a better game. They are informative and have some nice opinions in them but in the long run this is just one thread in a long line of topics that have allready been done before thousands of times. Every single poster need not make a new thread when they think they know the magic bullet SE needs. -
06-01-2011, 01:48 AMLerrisOthers have spoken to this, but smaller groups of programmers can be more productive. And if they want content ready to roll out steadily once the system changes are in place, they need to develop it in parallel.Quote:
Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki
They are fixing it ASAP. The other path would be to shut the servers down for 12 months while they retool. The goodwill lost among PC gamers who have paid for our game discs and be unable to play due to server shutdown would be far more damaging to their profits than our impatience.
As far as focusing on issues of dire importance first... they've evaluated what these issues are, and are working primarily on getting those issues out. However, they're also the most time-consuming issue to implement and test, hence the seemingly slow pace.
It costs nothing to wait. We're not paying subscription fees yet. Some significant changes have already been made, but in bite-sized pieces they don't feel so drastic so it feels as if less has been done than has really been done.Quote:
2) "Please be patient with us a little while longer" Just Doesn't Cut It For Me.
Having to wait 4 months (discounting 2 months for the new dev team to get settled in and another month for the earthquake.) for a company that's already notoriously slow for fixing things, for what may or may not be decent content at all, is long enough for most people.
You can post all the Walls-O-Text you want about changes and everything, but until myself & the rest of the world see actual changes, it's nothing more than smoke & mirrors.
This isn't your first MMO.. Quit acting like it is..
That having been said, I will decide to stop playing or continue playing based on the game's state when subscription fees are announced.
Serious question: are they acting like it's their first MMO?
Difficult content, yes please.Quote:
3) Drop the Cream Puff Content
No one currently playing FF14 is a casual gamer. That being said please make any and all monsters in upcoming content about 1000x harder than the Care Bear Troupe of mobs that you dared to label as Notorious Monsters.
Take a page from FF11 and inject this game with some seriously hard content.. It desperately needs it!
Having a hard fight or area that takes weeks (not hours) to perfect a strategy for and successfully beat is what Final Fantasy should be known for, not mashing enter 1000x while watching Netflix.
Difficult content keeps people coming back because it provides a challenge that's not easily beat in 1-2 hrs. What's the point of adding in monthly patches after the game comes off FTP if everyone playing beats all of the new content in a matter of hours? INJECT SOME STEROIDS INTO THAT CONTENT!
I want to see this game flourish... and see more than 4 people in Limsa Lominsa or Gridania at any given time.
Get on the ball SE.. because you're running out of time!
But there are plenty of casuals still playing. It's the hardcore players that are getting bored and leaving because they've run out of content. Don't believe me? Check my signature for my progress since launch.
Difficulty is better measured by number of attempts to beat than by hours or weeks. And if it takes 100 attempts to beat, and 100 groups are attempting it... -
06-01-2011, 09:57 AMMackIts nothing to do with nobility lol. After the failed launch SE sat down and did what is called an IRR (internal rate of return) on the project. They thought: if we go forward with overhauling this game and making it better meanwhile allowing free play, what is our rate of return and is it worth it. If this analysis showed them that they wont be profiting, they would have gave us all the middle finger. There is no nobility in business, just profit. Them keeping the servers running so as to allow people to come back and try the game while they were fixing it is a choice they made because they think it'll pay off in the end and will bring a lot of players back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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06-01-2011, 10:31 AMMackYes, they're dedicated to making money, what company isn't? Starlord was saying they are doing this out of goodwill. I think what goes "unnoticed" by a lot of people is the fact that SE made quite a bit of money on launch day by selling this game to begin with and servers don't take millions of dollars to upkeep (the majority of that $13/month that you pay goes to SE themselves, it doesn't go to upkeep servers) so SE isn't "losing" money per se (at this point its no different than an investment, they think they can invest more money into this game and make it a success), they're just not making any off an MMO which sole purpose is to upkeep a steady cash flow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephr
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06-01-2011, 10:54 AMStarlordYou just don't wanna admit the good things SE is doing, and thats fine =)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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06-01-2011, 11:48 AMMackLol you just don't wanna admit logic. But fine, SE loves you starlord and they're doing this for you. Now go fetch your nose before you lose it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
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06-01-2011, 12:14 PMStarlordI think your ear is in Iceland because you don't listen :D, SE forgives you hehe <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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06-01-2011, 04:35 PMRenshiQuote:
Originally Posted by Mack
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Originally Posted by Mack
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Originally Posted by Starlord
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Originally Posted by Mack
The funny thing is that I don't give a sh*t about all of this =DQuote:
Originally Posted by Starlord
But seriously, they're fixing a game letting us know, and most importantly help them in real-time to develope the game. -
06-01-2011, 05:34 PMMackFunny I don't remember either one of us asking your opinion =D.Quote:
The funny thing is that I don't give a sh*t about all of this =D
I don't give a shit either. Starlord think SE loves all of us and they're giving us free playtime as a "sorry" and I was explaining how there is no logic behind that. -
06-01-2011, 05:38 PMzaviermhigo
I can sit on this game, I have college to attend, I can understand if you are at a loss of something to do though, I mean its summer for me, gaming in general has disappointed me from rpgs to mmos in the last 3 years, so its hard to grab onto something to do. I do believe we'll have content by the end of summer, I just don't believe everyone of course will like it. Oh well I"ll just play my crappy single player Anno game :/
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06-01-2011, 06:42 PMRenshiThen I'll give a sh*t about you giving a sh*t about Starlord. You can stop giving a sh*t about Starlord so he can stop giving a sh*t about you, so I can stop giving a sh*t about you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mack
The Easiest Way. (also, the lames one) -
06-01-2011, 06:46 PMzaviermhigo
^ wait what? haha jk. So many Sh*ts. I may be pessimistic but I can get why people dont think SE really cares about us, I've felt that way about the whole gaming world. Mainstreaming and streamlining is cool for the money but in the end it alienates gamers who want challenge and we really only need one or two games from each company that used to make games like that (SE, Bioware, and others), we'll replay those for years if we need to (new game example: demon souls, IT HAS NO STORYLINE pretty much, and yet the battle system is so good that replaying the game is possible imo)
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06-01-2011, 08:55 PMBurn
I'll say this, and this is why I'm utterly disappointed with the new dev team thus far. All i've seen is carrot dangling, telling me whats coming when stupid things that could be quickly patched continue to stay in the game, like fatigue and return cost, I know its going to be taken out but do we really need to wait until june?
They're talking about crap that shouldn't even be on the horizon, cross server parties(who remembers that?) I understand the battle revamps are big priority, I am sure all of the resources are on that but they could have thrown us a bone by eliminating fatigue(they said it was gonna be gone with dungeons anyway) and return costs.
I get they have a lot on their plate, I get the earthquake set them back but come on, why couldn't of 1.17B axed fatigue and return cost? that would have been awesome.