Petition to Keep 300% Healing on Inner Beast + its new 20% DR

Let's take a short trip down memory lane... I recall how much people complained about how bad Bloodbath & Strompath heal scaled with content. And although I love the new changes to Defiance, Vengenance, and Holmgang... I feel the New Inner Beast looks great on paper but wont be as good as it's hyped up to be if it's released as Yoshi Described.

WAR Scales with Healer and PLD scales with content. WAR is more at the mercy to healer's gear. So why Gimp their Best Self Healing ability ?

Don't get me wrong, the new 20% DR for 6secs buff to Inner Beast is no Gimp, But the change to healing recieved from IB is a huge gimp. Average Inner hits for 300-500ish unless your rocking some ilvl 90 Gear + Some Str items. And with Most DL WAR sitting at 7k HP, recovering 300-500 is a slap in the face with most boss hitting you for 3-5k.

And for people who are saying the new inner beast is better than rampart then you guys
really need to look at the math. PLD has 20% DR baked in to their stance so when they use Rampart, they are really mitigating 40% + Shield and Parry for 20secs every 90secs vs WAR 20% for 6secs + Parry possible every 20 secs (If Your Good) vs PLD 1 button. War now has 2 mitigation, Inner beast and Vengeance. PLD still has Oath, Rampart, Sentinal, Bulwark and Hallow Ground (Holmgang doesnt mitigate) I feel to make up for this, they should not nerf healing from Inner beast.

Edit: This Post got no traction and it seems everyone is oppose this idea. We'll cant knock a guy for trying, OLD inner beast you will be missed.

No thanks.

Over powered beyond belief.

You need to look at it as a supplemental heal or a top off, because the skill is to be used as a Preemptive shield, not a post-Spike heal. You are always going to get the 500~ Heal from tossing it out all the time now, and your healers are permanently healing you for 5% more than before. It balances out much better in our favor this way.

PS. Paladins are equally if not more at the mercy of the healers gear than Warriors are. Only skill the says otherwise is Hallowed Ground.

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Originally Posted by ZDamned

Over powered beyond belief.

You need to look at it as a supplemental heal or a top off, because the skill is to be used as a Preemptive shield, not a post-Spike heal. It balances out much better in our favor this way.

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Although I agree with you that it is better used pre-emptively; It is less forgiving because of short duration vs PLD CD's that last 10, 15, 20 secs. In some cases if your off by 1 sec It could mean a Wasted inner beast.There will be times Wrath wont always be up for those big hits.

Also all fights are not predictable, There are fights where High Damage Attack are Random.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

There are fights where High Damage Attack are Random.

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Such as?

/10char

Over Powered

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

really need to look at the math. PLD has 20% DR baked in to their stance so when they use Rampart, they are really mitigating 40%

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You're doing it wrong.
Shield oath is MULTIPLICATIVE towards Rampart, not additive.
Take a hit for 10.
Drop it by 20%.
Now its 8.
Hit that for 20%.
now its 6.4, its not a 40% value, its more along the lines of 36%


Furthermore, Defiance = Shield oath.
Shield oath provides 25% more eHP and a 25% healing boost as a result of the mitigation.

Holmgang doesn't need to mitigate.
WAR will also have vengeance for 30%.
The fact it can use a Inner beast on command and somewhat more often than Rampart is quite good actually.
Defiance does the same thing.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Furthermore, Defiance = Shield oath.
Shield oath provides 25% more eHP and a 25% healing boost as a result of the mitigation.

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Finally someone gets it right. People seem to forget that Defiance is being changed and will now be equal to shield oath. 20% mitigation is EXACTLY the same as 25% more HP and healing.

A PLD takes a hit for 200 which is mitigated by 20% down to 160. Requiring a heal of 160.

A WAR takes a hit for 200 which is NOT mitigated however healing is *1.25 thus.... requiring a heal for 160.

OP, you forgot foresight.

Yes, 20% armor is not as handy as -20% damage taken (or even -16%, speaking mulplicatively in regards to rampart), but it's still mitigation.

And really, due to the latency of combat, animations needing to complete and what-not, IB too often resulted in overhealing by the warrior or by the healer.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Although I agree with you that it is better used pre-emptively; It is less forgiving because of short duration vs PLD CD's that last 10, 15, 20 secs. In some cases if your off by 1 sec It could mean a Wasted inner beast.There will be times Wrath wont always be up for those big hits.

Also all fights are not predictable, There are fights where High Damage Attack are Random.

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The only time IB is not effective, is when Rampart is equally ineffective. because both abilities require you to use it before damage is dealt. The only thing your fighting in favor of here is the duration of the buff, but remember, 18 seconds after IB's Shield wears off, you can do it again, with a heal component that Rampart doesn't have.

PS, there are no Random spikes of damage in Boss fights. Or else every group would wipe on a coin flip.

IB will actually be extremely effective if used well. I'm thinking in Titan HM, which is far from "endgame" but relates to the vast majority of players, you could use IB for... every Mountain Buster? While a PLD may have more cool downs they certainly don't have enough to pop one on EVERY mountain buster meanwhile a warrior if using their brain will have IB up every time.

I would imagine the ideal time to pop IB would be after the first auto attack used prior to Mountain buster. If after landslide Titan doesn't AA and you feel like MB is coming... just pop it then.

My point being a 20% DR skill that is nearly spammable is going to be extremely effective when used well.

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Originally Posted by Leiron

Furthermore, Defiance = Shield oath.
Shield oath provides 25% more eHP and a 25% healing boost as a result of the mitigation.

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I kno Defiance = Shield oath but PLD will still be easier to heal.

PLD has 6000 HP, WAR Has 7500

Titan Hits Tank for 4000.

PLD Mitigates 20%, Takes 3200 Damage. War Takes 4000.

PLD now Has 2800(46% of Max HP), WAR has 3500 HP (46% of Max HP)

Healer Heals Tank for 2000.

PLD Now has 4800HP( 80% of Max HP after Heal), WAR Now has 5900 HP (78.6% Of Max HP)
(War Recieve 2400 heal because of addition %20 heal in new defiance. 3500 +2400 = 5900)

You might say 2% hp is minimal but add more CD's & Shield to the equation only makes PLD ehp even higher.

My arguement is why reduced our Best Self healing abilitiy "For Balance" When PLD still significantly mitigate more damage ?

New Inner Beast IS better than Rampart at handling all of the single boss tanking hard hitting fights.

Death Sentence => ~30 seconds

With Rampart, you can mitigate 1 out of 3 Death Sentences. With Inner Beast you can mitigate EVERY Death Sentence. Even with a 6 second duration, it'll be easy to do this as the move is on a timer that it rarely(if ever) deviates from.

So for big hits like DS and Titan MB, IB wins out over Rampart.

Rampart wins in add swarm situations though, such as WP speed runs, Turn 4 pick ups, snake pickups on Turn 5, basically any situation where the damage is high and consistent through more than 6 seconds. A paladin's shield also helps in this situation, because the quantity of hits is plentiful enough to reliably trigger blocks.

After reading the notes, I'm actually impressed by the potential balance between the two tanks after 2.1 in which each will perform slightly better in certain situations, but the idea of a stacking damage reducer clearly points to synergy from having them both in a group.

Now for some math as to why the OP should leave this alone:
Warrior vs. Caduceus w/o DR over 6 secs
Hood swing+ AA + AA= 2651+ 1764+ 1771= 6186 dmg received.
6186- 1100 IB = 5086 dmg net
Warrior vs. Caduceus w/ 20% DR over 6 secs
Same as above - 20%
2120.8-1441.2-1416.8 = 4978.8
4978.8- (1100/3)= 4611 dmg net
4611 is 90% of 5086.
The way will be 10% better than what we have currently, and that
is *not* including the increased heals or vengeance

Just for some clarification... Will defiance add 20% or 25% healing?

You should see how the CD and duration on Storm's Path and Vengeance are before asking for the 300% heal and 20% DR. For all we know Vengeance can have a different CD from what it is right now. Shield Oath is still better than Defiance in that the healing portion should have been 25% extra instead of 20% but I think they did that to substitute for the healing from Inner Beast and Storm's Path (which should be used more than Storm's Eye now that it has DR on it when main-tanking).
Personally, I like the 6s CD on Inner Beast as it requires more timing on my part. None of the damage in game is random and you can time it. Give me more things to do in Coil instead of holding hate, staying alive and wishing everyone else do their part since Warrior doesn't have Silence utility.

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Originally Posted by Zoomie

Just for some clarification... Will defiance add 20% or 25% healing?

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20%

20% more healing.
Which is slightly below what is needed to break even, but I am assuming they are tinking of inner beast as a way of compensating.

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

Like this Thread to Petition to keep the 300% heal + 20% DR for 6secs.

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Even ignoring the terrible balance issue this would present, I'm not a fan of this idea.

The new IB is very clear in its intent. You use it before a big hit if you know there are big hits to use it for, or you use it as often as you can if there's nothing to time it for. Dropping the healing to 100% makes the healing a nice bonus, but not something you hold onto IB for, because the 20% DR before a hit is going to be worth more than the heal in most situations. The heal won't feel like too big a waste if it's overheal.

Having both the DR and the big heal would make IB wishy-washy. Do you use it before a hit for the DR, or after for the heal? If you use it beforehand, you're probably wasting a substantial heal on overhal. If you use it afterward, you're probably wasting the DR on comparatively small hits. The only time this would be all good would be in between two big hits that are close enough together that both the heal and the DR would get their full effect.

I wouldn't be opposed to the IB heal applying a shield for the value over-healed. Something short duration so it won't last into other encounters.

IB heals for 500 > 350 is over healed and applied to X buff lasting 10s or until the value is taken in dmg.

While I don't feel this is NECESSARY it would alleviate the feeling of "wasting" the IB heal when used at full HP to preempt an attack.

One ability being increased by 10% is great, in and of itself.
To ask for it to be overpowered is game breaking. We still
want the game to be balanced and meaningful.

If you keep IB @ 300% potency, then
IB would see an increase of 37.3%. Call me crazy,
but that is way too much. I would have to jump on
the "WAR is OP in 2.1" band wagon then. And that,
Sir, can *not* happen.

I'd like to see the 20% DR put on Steel Cyclone. That way we can still have our huge heal if we want, but if we're using the heal, then no damage reduction. It would also provide an incentive to actually USE Steel Cyclone, one of our best looking abilities that is still very lack-luster.

No thanks.

If I can give myself 20% DR along with 3k+ healed in 6 seconds or less almost on command (that's without crits)... No. That would be encroaching too much on PLD's viability as a MT. With crits and Blood Bath? I consistently see 3000-3100 + 250-300 or more PER Inner Beast. Crit twice and what happens? Almost 7k healed along with free damage reduction?

That's ridiculous. Don't bite the hand that feeds you especially when they give you such large portions.

I think there trying to make war more durable overall, I'm not saying don't have thoughts, opinions, or dreams. But all in all it should be realistic if you wanna actually see it in game. Seeing as it will be a damage reduction buff and a decent heal It's not bad, with the buffs you shouldn't really need a big clutch heal. I think to many people are jumping the gun, will see how it actually plays out when the patch hits. A lot of people wanted to war and seen it wasn't really effective, and rerolled Pld. For all we know war might end up op or still sub par. Cause the dev's said war was fine in the 1st place and people where not using wraith as intended, but we all know what to think of that.

OmegaSinX so greedy

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Originally Posted by OmegaSinX

*whine*

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So Warriors whined cause they were as good as paladins, and NOW you want more *just shakes head*
Maybe the WHM should get a buff where for they never lose HP or MP

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Originally Posted by Paikis

I'd like to see the 20% DR put on Steel Cyclone. That way we can still have our huge heal if we want, but if we're using the heal, then no damage reduction. It would also provide an incentive to actually USE Steel Cyclone, one of our best looking abilities that is still very lack-luster.

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I've suggested something like this in another thread. I would definitely like to see the Inner Beast being left alone and the 20% damage reduction brought to steel cyclone.