Are Monks Really This Easy? Macro Question

So I just made this macro for my Pug and I wondered if it is really as easy as this to play this class.

/macroicon "Snap Punch"
/ac "Internal Release" <me>
/ac "Featherfoot" <me>
/ac "Snap Punch" <t>
/ac "Snap Punch" <tt>
/ac "Twin Snakes" <t>
/ac "Twin Snakes" <tt>
/ac "Bootshine" <t>
/ac "Bootshine" <tt>

At the moment I am only level 18 and will be swapping out some skills as I unlock others, but is it really as easy as this or am I missing something?

Using macros loses you DPS every GCD because they don't queue the abilities.

So you can't send a signal to the server to use the next ability until the GCD is already up. You lose very tiny amounts of time(if you're mashing) every GCD, but it still adds up.

Macros are only good for oGCD abilities.

Technically, you can play a MNK just like that, same with BRD. Is it optimal, though? No, not nearly.

Are there any detailed posts on that? It would seem that since you are sending the command to use an ability, it would still hit the server and queue it up.

Try using your macro against 10 mobs in a row, then use separate non-macro'd attacks against 10 mobs in a row. You should notice an immediate difference.

SE's engine is not smart enough to queue an ability in a macro. Note: it's not as simple as it sounds, although I don't know why. RIFT had the same issue with macros for the first 4 months. In RIFT it was 100x more critical to get macros working because the game relied on them to a significant degree, unlike FF14.

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Originally Posted by McStagger

Is there any detailed posts on that? It would seem that since you are sending the command to use an ability, it would still hit the server and queue it up.

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You're still sending the signal, but it doesn't queue.

You can test it on any class/job. Just make a macro for any ability, and try to queue it before the GCD is up. I first noticed this when I played SCH, because I have <tt> macros set up for all my offensive skills.

Uhm no. It is not that easy. You never ever want to blow your CD when you don't need to. Putting Internal Release on the same macro as your main combo will only leave you without it for when the CD matters like Titan HM heart phase. Later on, you get a lot more skills and some are only situational useful. Also, any server lag will make you skip the abilities in the right form and make you lose Greased Lightning. Just go manual.

Any class at level 18 can be pretty simple. When you get higher level you'll find you'll have more options for attack abilities dragonkick vs. bootshine, true strike vs. twin snakes, snap punch vs. demolish. depending on the situation, you'll be using different abilities at different times. On top of choosing between two abilities to use for each part of your combo you will also need to reposition yourself based on the ability you are using. Monks also need to watch their dragon kick debuff, greased lightning stacks, twin snakes buff, demolish, fracture, and touch of death you want to keep all of those buffs, debufs, and dots up. you may also start sticking in impulse drive at higher gear levels.

The rotation itself can look overwhelming at first, but eventually it becomes muscle memory. the real trick to monk is positioning and juggling, especially juggling. if you drop a debuff, buff, or dot it can hurt your dps. Although I will say, given that there's 6 abilities in the normal rotation and depending on the fights and etc... i would not recommend using macros for normal rotations, heck i never recommend using macros for actual rotations ever.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

Any class at level 18 can be pretty simple. *snip*

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From what I have been reading, once you get your Crit up, Bootshine becomes less and less viable. And the 5% chance to crit on True is not worth the potential loss of the Twin Snakes buff.

@Lemon Once I get PUG/MNK to a higher level, some buffs would be removed for common sense reasons. The gist of my comment, which I recognize is not immediately clear, is the combo rotation being tied into a single macro. That said, from what some of the comments are indicating, I need to test this a bit as I definitely do not want to be sacrificing DPS for a modicum of ease.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Try using your macro against 10 mobs in a row, then use separate non-macro'd attacks against 10 mobs in a row. You should notice an immediate difference.

SE's engine is not smart enough to queue an ability in a macro. Note: it's not as simple as it sounds, although I don't know why. RIFT had the same issue with macros for the first 4 months. In RIFT it was 100x more critical to get macros working because the game relied on them to a significant degree, unlike FF14.

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I wonder if it is a balance mechanic to deter macros for certain purposes.

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Originally Posted by McStagger

From what I have been reading, once you get your Crit up, Bootshine becomes less and less viable. And the 5% chance to crit on True is not worth the potential loss of the Twin Snakes buff.

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You will still want to bootshine at max level. you'll be switching between dragonkicks and bootshines. Though you're right when it comes to true strike vs. twin snakes, although lately i've been seeing some people advocating switching between the two if you're able to reach some kind of skillspeed cap although i don't think it's worth it either, but maybe in the next patch for all we know they might make it viable to switch between them.

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Originally Posted by McStagger

I wonder if it is a balance mechanic to deter macros for certain purposes.

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That assumes a level of technical mastery and design foresight I don't think SE has evidenced to date ^_^.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

That assumes a level of technical mastery and design foresight I don't think SE has evidenced to date ^_^.

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Fair enough, but you have to admit that even if it wasn't on purpose, it is a pretty good way of giving the lazy an option while rewarding the less lazy with some better DPS.

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Originally Posted by McStagger

am I missing something?

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About 32 levels.

When I arrived in 2.0 at lv.50 with all the abilities on my bar, it was daunting--until I did the missions and got capped out. The game introduces you to MNK at a comfortable pace. If you've played other jobs already it's going to be easy to get into MNK, but don't abuse the game's kindness with macros. Learn the flows as you go and build the action bar to your liking.

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

RIFT had the same issue with macros for the first 4 months. In RIFT it was 100x more critical to get macros working because the game relied on them to a significant degree, unlike FF14.

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Yeah, reactive based macros tend to lag because it needs to check if the ability can be used.
Generally you don't macro those abilities, the rest work fine now tough.

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Originally Posted by Kevee

Using macros loses you DPS every GCD because they don't queue the abilities.

So you can't send a signal to the server to use the next ability until the GCD is already up. You lose very tiny amounts of time(if you're mashing) every GCD, but it still adds up.

Macros are only good for oGCD abilities.

Technically, you can play a MNK just like that, same with BRD. Is it optimal, though? No, not nearly.

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Using target dummies and the timer for Greased Lightening as a test to see how long the rotation take for both the macro and manual button presses, they both came out at seemingly the exact same time with 6 seconds left on GL.

"Easy" is relative to the user so that can be tricky to answer.

Now if you're question is: Is MNK rotation at level 50 basically Dragon Kick > Twin Snakes > Snap Punch over and over, refreshing DoTs whenever they fall off? Then yes. You can sub in a Bootshine every other Dragon Kick if you wanna get fancy, though the higher you get your crit, the less this becomes a thing. Still a dps gain, but it's pretty minimal.

But if your other question is if it's possible to use a macro to get nearly a 100% optimal rotation out of MNK like it is possible with BRDs, I'd say no, partly because of the way MNKs work and partly because of the way macros work in this game.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

Any class at level 18 can be pretty simple. When you get higher level you\\'ll find you\\'ll have more options for attack abilities dragonkick vs. bootshine, true strike vs. twin snakes, snap punch vs. demolish. depending on the situation, you\\'ll be using different abilities at different times. On top of choosing between two abilities to use for each part of your combo you will also need to reposition yourself based on the ability you are using. Monks also need to watch their dragon kick debuff, greased lightning stacks, twin snakes buff, demolish, fracture, and touch of death you want to keep all of those buffs, debufs, and dots up
Although I will say, given that theres 6 abilities in the normal rotation and depending on the fights and etc... i would not recommend using macros for normal rotations, heck i never recommend using macros for actual rotations ever.

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This ^^ its not as simple as 1 macro

Your going to want to bootshine even at max level.

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Originally Posted by McStagger

Using target dummies and the timer for Greased Lightening as a test to see how long the rotation take for both the macro and manual button presses, they both came out at seemingly the exact same time with 6 seconds left on GL.

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Again, it's fractions of a second each time.

This is VERY easy to test.

Have one ability macroed as itself.

Have the same ability next to it non-macro'ed.

Press the macro, and ~.5s before the GCD is up press it again.

Notice, you don't use the skill.

Press the macro, and ~.5s before the GCD is up press the normal skill.

Notice how you use the skill.

You're not going to be able to eyeball GL3 and see a difference.

GL3 resets every 3 attacks. 3 attacks will not accumulate to a 1.0 second delta between the macro case and non-macro case, unless you are lagging at a horribad epic fail level.

To observe the difference, you need to use a longer sequence of attacks. One simple test is:

1. Get GL3.
2. Pop IR.
3. Immediately begin attacking. Sidenote: for best results, don't mash the button(s) and instead pretend you're being lazy in normal farm content, which is a normal use-case.
4. Count the # of attacks you successfully execute until IR is available again (60s of consecutive attacks).

The expected loss in # of attacks using the macro should be in the range of ~2 attacks.

That said, this level of testing shouldn't be necessary because it's pretty obvious when you press the button.

Sidenote: for best results, also pay attention to which attacks are actually executed. If you press the macro rapidly, you WILL eventually use Bootshine/DK out of sequence (e.g. when you should be using Snap Punch).

Edit: Kevee's method also works to demonstrate the specific issue and takes less time ... lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EasymodeX

Try using your macro against 10 mobs in a row, then use separate non-macro'd attacks against 10 mobs in a row. You should notice an immediate difference.

SE's engine is not smart enough to queue an ability in a macro. Note: it's not as simple as it sounds, although I don't know why. RIFT had the same issue with macros for the first 4 months. In RIFT it was 100x more critical to get macros working because the game relied on them to a significant degree, unlike FF14.

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It might be the engine was actually designed this way to provide a more "interactive" game experience. I am not saying it is wrong or right, but the trend in many newer MMOs has been to try and make the combat more action oriented. Case in point, I don't think I ever dodged as much in FFXI, WoW, or Guild Wars.

Any monk using that macro needs to reroll.