Extremely disappointed in my Dragoon after attempting T4

Did Turn 4 today and it finally flipped me over to the side that complains that Dragoons suck.

Gears on my Dragoon: Relic+1, DL Helm, AF+1 Chest, DL Hands, Allagan Pants, AF+1 Boots, Allagan Earrings, Allagan Neck, DL Bracelet, AK Ring, DL Ring

Gears on my Bard: Relic, Toxote everything on left side, Toxote earrings, Toxote Neck, Toxote Ring, DL Ring, DL dragoon bracelet.

Parse on Dreadnaught:

Dragoon = 234 (Perfect 27 hit rotation) Bard = 230

So, my Dragoon nearly has all best in slot gears while my bard doesn't even have DL, yet my Bard can almost do the same damage as my Dragoon.

if it makes you feel any better i can't even use my class' form of mitigation on the clockwork knight/soldier(s)

You do realize parsing is extremely inaccurate right?

I have to imagine that your BRD isn't doing that damage in Turn 4. would probably miss half your attacks.

DRG doesn't suck, this sounds like a player issue.

I love my DRG and I have no trouble with DPS in T4 or Conflags.

Parsers, the most accurate DPS measure for GENIUS.

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Originally Posted by Riyo

I have to imagine that your BRD isn't doing that damage in Turn 4. would probably miss half your attacks.

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The gears on Bards have all DEX and your attributes are all DEX which adds to accuracy. I am accuracy capped with those gears on bard for T4.

The PUG we brought ran the parse multiple times. Our BLM ran a different parse multiple times. They were consistent.

We were also able to get the Dreadnaught down in the same amount of time on my BRD compared to my DRG.

The parse is correct.

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Originally Posted by Ayasee

DRG doesn't suck, this sounds like a player issue.

I love my DRG and I have no trouble with DPS in T4 or Conflags.

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I guarantee you my DRG can do better DPS than you. My complaint is not that I have an issue. My complaint is that my Bard, with shit gears, can nearly outdps my DRG with almost all best in slot gears.

Please learn to read.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

The gears on Bards have all DEX and your attributes are all DEX which adds to accuracy. I am accuracy capped with those gears on bard for T4.

The PUG we brought ran the parse multiple times. Our BLM ran a different parse multiple times. They were consistent.

We were also able to get the Dreadnaught down in the same amount of time on my BRD compared to my DRG.

The parse is correct.

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Until actual add ons for the game can be made parsing is still not 100% accurate.

And the other damage? The soldier/knigth, the spiders? Did you sing? The dreadnough is not the only part of that fight

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Originally Posted by RavenL

Until actual add ons for the game can be made parsing is still not 100% accurate.

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It might not be 100% accurate, but my Bard in terrible gears still helped our team down the Dreadnaught in the same amount of time as my Dragoon in very good gears.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

And the other damage? The soldier/knigth, the spiders? Did you sing? The dreadnough is not the only part of that fight

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Bard did more dps on the knights, I don't attack the soldiers. I don't count the spiders because it's all AOE. I only sang foe requiem during phase 2 and 3 so that doesn't matter.

You're basically just proving my point that my BRD is better. Not only does it do more DPS, but it has better utility. I hope this "BUFF" coming to Dragoon is a big one and this "NERF" to bard is a big one. This is pretty pathetic.

People are correct to say that parsing the entirety of turn 4 will be inaccurate... the reason is because of the stoneskin buffs the soldier/knights get. However, JUST parsing the dreadnaught *and nothing else* should be accurate.

Did you complete the content as a dragoon? Yes? THEN WHAT THE **** IS THE PROBLEM?

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Bard did more dps on the knights, I don't attack the soldiers. I don't count the spiders because it's all AOE. I only sang foe requiem during phase 2 and 3 so that doesn't matter.

You're basically just proving my point that my BRD is better. Not only does it do more DPS, but it has better utility. I hope this "BUFF" coming to Dragoon is a big one and this "NERF" to bard is a big one. This is pretty pathetic.

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Or maybe.. just maybe... you are better brd than drg

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Originally Posted by Katiyana

Did you complete the content as a dragoon? Yes? THEN WHAT THE **** IS THE PROBLEM?

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That's usually my argument with warriors.

"People have beaten the turns with a warrior..."
"So? Paladin still makes it easier..."
"But if everyone knows what they're doing, a warrior can be just as good--"
"BUT PALADIN MAKES IT EASIER SO IT'S BETTER. SHUT UP." >_>;;

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Originally Posted by Katiyana

Did you complete the content as a dragoon? Yes? THEN WHAT THE **** IS THE PROBLEM?

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WTF is the problem? The problem is that my fkin DRG has extremely better gears than my BRD yet my BRD can do almost the same damage as my DRG. If you don't see that as a problem, then you have a problem. They are both DPS classes. BRDs have more utilities, can attack on the move, and yet do more damage than DRG in same gears?

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Originally Posted by Tenku

The gears on Bards have all DEX and your attributes are all DEX which adds to accuracy. I am accuracy capped with those gears on bard for T4.

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Uhh wut? Dexterity does not affect your accuracy in the slightest, I can guarantee you are not anywhere near accuracy capped for turn 4 with toxotes gear. Also wtf are you using a dragoon bracelet on a bard? str does nothing for this class and you could find a level 40 dex bracelet on the ah that would be better than that for only several thousand.

I can also guarantee you are doing nowhere near those numbers with tox and relic wep. People were barely pushing 200 dps with darklight and an ilvl 70 wep and yet you expect people to believe you're pushing 230+ with relic and ilvl 60 gear where you have gimped accuracy? The parser was way off or you just suck at dragoon if you expect people to believe that a geared dragoon is getting beat out by a gimp geared bard. If you're getting beat out as a dragoon by a gimped bard then it's not the class that needs work, it's you.

I'm so tired of people thinking bard is an OP class. Our job is so incoherent it's not even funny. Seriously they need to fix our class. As for your problem? You're clearly not as good of a DRG as you think you are if your BRD is out DPSing it (Given the parse is correct which i doubt completely)

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

Or maybe.. just maybe... you are better brd than drg

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That's not possible. I'm way better on DRG than BRD. I have not seen a better DRG than me on Excalibur server. I can hit my 27 hit rotation on DRG almost 100% of the time on any fight except when the boss teleports. I can dodge perfectly on most fight without losing DPS. I'm very proud to be a damn good DRG, but if me playing half-ass on BRD with bad gears can do just as well as me trying very hard on DRG with very good gears..... there is a problem.

It is possible your rotation for your dragoon is not as good as your rotation for your bard. I've seen plenty of dragoons push out more dps than you with comparable gear -- so it is likely that you are still having trouble learning the turn and optimizing your dps for that, or you are missing something that would make your dps better than it currently is. I've also seen bards with better gear put out less dps than your bard -- possibly because they are also not getting their own rotations right, but you are great at playing bard. I have 0 advice for dragoon but I will say that the classes are pretty balanced and a difference in gear by this much would mean a sharp difference in DPS if you are optimizing your rotations for each class.

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Originally Posted by SaveTheSunF1R3x

I'm so tired of people thinking bard is an OP class. Our job is so incoherent it's not even funny. Seriously they need to fix our class. As for your problem? You're clearly not as good of a DRG as you think you are if your BRD is out DPSing it (Given the parse is correct which i doubt completely)

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Why don't you come on Excalibur and do any fights with my DRG. I'm a better DRG than most on the server. I didn't say BRD was OP. I said I am disappointed in my DRG. It's clearly imbalanced.

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Originally Posted by Ryuko

It is possible your rotation for your dragoon is not as good as your rotation for your bard. ...

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There is no better rotation for DRG. The 27 hit rotation for DRG is the best. I have tested many and clearly, the 27 hit rotation that most DRGs should know about is the best. I am doing a lot more damage than the other Dragoon in our party. I am sure every parser is different and the parser we used probably didn't count dots. But clearly, if you use the same parser on both jobs, the difference in damage should be significant when one job is wearing nearly full ilvl 90 gears while the other job is only wearing ilvl 60 gears.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

I guarantee you my DRG can do better DPS than you. My complaint is not that I have an issue. My complaint is that my Bard, with shit gears, can nearly outdps my DRG with almost all best in slot gears.

Please learn to read.

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Your BRD should not be outDPSing you on a dreadnought, lmao. No way in hell you do more DPS than me, I do ~300 DPS on a dread on T4.

Please learn to play. I bet you use Fracture too.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

That's not possible. I'm way better on DRG than BRD. I have not seen a better DRG than me on Excalibur server. I can hit my 27 hit rotation on DRG almost 100% of the time on any fight except when the boss teleports. I can dodge perfectly on most fight without losing DPS. I'm very proud to be a damn good DRG, but if me playing half-ass on BRD with bad gears can do just as well as me trying very hard on DRG with very good gears..... there is a problem.

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And that problem is you and the fact that you believe a parser that is horribly off when it's impossible to do that kind of dps for any significant amount of time as a bard with that kind of gear. If for any reason the parser was correct for more than a few secs(during aoe spam which even then you should be doing more as a dragoon with that kind of gear) then the problem is your own ability with playing a dragoon.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

That's not possible. I'm way better on DRG than BRD. I have not seen a better DRG than me on Excalibur server. I can hit my 27 hit rotation on DRG almost 100% of the time on any fight except when the boss teleports. I can dodge perfectly on most fight without losing DPS. I'm very proud to be a damn good DRG, but if me playing half-ass on BRD with bad gears can do just as well as me trying very hard on DRG with very good gears..... there is a problem.

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Also are you even counting the limit? Is you brd DPS more in all fight? Saying you are disappointed just because in one fight it does kinda better is dumb.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

You're basically just proving my point that my BRD is better. Not only does it do more DPS, but it has better utility. I hope this "BUFF" coming to Dragoon is a big one and this "NERF" to bard is a big one. This is pretty pathetic.

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You said it was OP /Thread
Also i've seen you around quite often and there are MUCH better DRGs here on Excalibur. (Just telling it how it is)

http://i.imgur.com/xlUdKC4.png
2-3 week old parse on a striking dummy for ~112 seconds when I had less ilvl 90 than I currently do right now. No food, potions or party buffs.

If you are doing <250 on a single target, it's a player issue, not a DRG being underpowered lol. But you know, since you're doing more DPS than I am enjoy being stuck in Turn 4.

Of course, I do a little more now with more ilvl 90 gear in addition with the party buffs and food in Coil.

You say that you think the parse is accurate because the dreadnaught is dying in the same amount of time..

Well, after doing this fight enough, everyone really just starts to memorize how long you have in the dreaded phase 3 dps race before phase 4 starts. If I am doing a run with lesser-geared people, I will push out more dps (pop more cooldowns) on phase 3 than I normally would because I know I need to make up for someone who is not as geared as me. That means popping my beloved Enkindle (SMN 5 min cooldown) when I might have saved it for a later time. I'll also probably pop Contagion instead of saving it for phase 4. Other people in your group probably alter their cooldowns (may or may not use raging strikes, for example) depending on how they perceive the length of phase 3 going. It's game over if you don't kill the dreadnaught before phase 4, so of course you're always going to kill it at the same time if your group wants to push on. I would not trust parsers specifically because "well, it's dying at the same time."

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Originally Posted by Tenku

The gears on Bards have all DEX and your attributes are all DEX which adds to accuracy. I am accuracy capped with those gears on bard for T4.

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Read the stat description on dex and come again.
It adds to ranged DAMAGE and Parry/block, it does not add any Accuracy.

Edit: Ack someone beat me to it, didn't expect this thread to get so many replies in such a short time. D:

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Originally Posted by Ayasee

I bet you use Fracture too.

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There is actually nothing wrong with using fracture while your buffs are on. Other than that it's a TP dump I agree.

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Originally Posted by Ayasee

http://i.imgur.com/xlUdKC4.png
2-3 week old parse on a striking dummy for ~112 seconds when I had less ilvl 90 than I currently do right now. No food, potions or party buffs.

If you are doing <250 on a single target, it's a player issue, not a DRG being underpowered lol. But you know, since you're doing more DPS than I am enjoy being stuck in Turn 4.

Of course, I do a little more now with more ilvl 90 gear in addition with the party buffs and food in Coil.

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Quoting so OP can read it twice.
Also My MNK with ilv80 relic & DL does more dps than your DRG.
So Player issue, written all over the thread.

Can Vouch for Ayase... dude puts up better numbers than most DRG in server.. he's asian so yea...
let me know if u see another drg put up 290 in titan and 275+ inTurn 4

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Please show us your amazing parse on the Dreadnaught in T4.

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I will when Coil resets later. :)

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Originally Posted by Ayasee

http://i.imgur.com/xlUdKC4.png
2-3 week old parse on a striking dummy for ~112 seconds when I had less ilvl 90 than I currently do right now. No food, potions or party buffs.

If you are doing <250 on a single target, it's a player issue, not a DRG being underpowered lol. But you know, since you're doing more DPS than I am enjoy being stuck in Turn 4.

Of course, I do a little more now with more ilvl 90 gear in addition with the party buffs and food in Coil.

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What's your rotation, tell me now.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

The gears on Bards have all DEX and your attributes are all DEX which adds to accuracy. I am accuracy capped with those gears on bard for T4.

The PUG we brought ran the parse multiple times. Our BLM ran a different parse multiple times. They were consistent.

We were also able to get the Dreadnaught down in the same amount of time on my BRD compared to my DRG.

The parse is correct.

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dex attribute does not contribute to accuracy, it only contribute to your attack power for range classes (in this case BRD). Accuracy is an entirely independent attribute which is shared by both melee and casters. you need about 470 accuracy for turn 4 to achieve 100% hit rate.

side note: Dex also contribute to block rate

http://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/Attributes

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

So if your dragoon parsers for that much then how much does your bard parse for? Because if you say more than your dragoon then you are flat out telling people you are trolling(which you are anyway). Reply to what I said earlier, you are calling out people for being bad and yet you seem to think dex gives accuracy for bards or any class for that matter. It is impossible to do the numbers you are doing on your bard(even for turn 4) with toxotes gear and a relic, you do not have the accuracy and you do not have the stats to be anywhere near there.

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Accuracy on my BRD is 469. Accuracy on my Dragoon is 478. Why don't you ask the other people in my group how well my BRD in shit gears did. Setsune Mystbane, Locke Cole, Ecthorn Bale, Morbos Calendari, Ayucia Draeien, Melena Cait.

Like I said. I love my DRG, but it's obvious that BRD does much more DPS.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Accuracy on my BRD is 469. Accuracy on my Dragoon is 478. Why don't you ask the other people in my group how well my BRD in shit gears did. Setsune Mystbane, Locke Cole, Ecthorn Bale, Morbos Calendari, Ayucia Draeien, Melena Cait.

Like I said. I love my DRG, but it's obvious that BRD does much more DPS.

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I'll ask them. What's their SSN,DOB, and cell phone # so I can verify?

I got in a discussion with my FC about this and they are pretty far in coil telling me the EXACT same thing lol. They swore that shit gear bard was doing more or equal damage than his main DRG, on excalibur sever no less :p I don't know if I believe it but if it is true that kind of sucks. Accuracy is not an issue with Bard until you have most i90 myth gear.

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Originally Posted by Tenku

Accuracy on my BRD is 469. Accuracy on my Dragoon is 478. Why don't you ask the other people in my group how well my BRD in shit gears did. Setsune Mystbane, Locke Cole, Ecthorn Bale, Morbos Calendari, Ayucia Draeien, Melena Cait.

Like I said. I love my DRG, but it's obvious that BRD does much more DPS.

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It's also obvious that you suck on your dragoon if a bard with gimp gear is blowing away your decently geared dragoon. It's clear as day you're trying to make this out to be a post bashing bards and making up numbers trying to make a gimp bard out to be better than a geared anything. Equal skill and gear puts bard clear behind all 4 other dmg classes for single target and yet you come in here shouting that your crappy gear on your bard is able to outperform your gear on your dragoon(which it can't with your stats in tox gear and a dragoon wrist that is providing zero benefit for you other than secondary stats).

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

It's also obvious that you suck on your dragoon if a bard with gimp gear is blowing away your decently geared dragoon. It's clear as day you're trying to make this out to be a post bashing bards and making up numbers trying to make a gimp bard out to be better than a geared anything. Equal skill and gear puts bard clear behind all 4 other dmg classes for single target and yet you come in here shouting that your crappy gear on your bard is able to outperform your gear on your dragoon(which it can't with your stats in tox gear and a dragoon wrist that is providing zero benefit for you other than secondary stats).

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I'm the DRG and I'm the BRD. I am comparing my own damage. I went into T4 as both DRG and BRD and we did damage parses and that's what came up. I'm also either Top or 2nd best on the parser in every attempt. Only time I didn't get Top parse was when our BLM got lucky crits that put his numbers way up there.