Concern with Pc Players and Console Players

I have noticed in the realm of Diabolos, perhaps more?

Players when looking for a party are requiring Vent/Mumble/TeamSpeak/RaidCall etc.

Console players have no apps for this and android does help somehow [NOT all programs listed are even on android market], but still if you have no Laptop or PC you wont even be able to complete some things,

Even the PS4 which is more close to a PC [Not 100% course console is always behind] But my issue is Ps4 can have an 8man chat, but can't even install mumble or any other 3rd party program.

I have a huge concern that pc players are indeed breaking away from Ps3 players and in the future Ps4 because ps4 does have voice chat up to 8 players, however it isn't cross platformed either, so Ps3 will have their PSN, and PC will have mumble which is what SE wanted to kind of avoid was separation of console/pc players...

it was inevitable this would happen, players always want to be in touch with each other for better coordination towards endgame content, even if you had an ingame microphone support i doubt many would even try it, because they have Teamspeak and what not... its up to the playstation players to figure out whats the best solution for them...

However Warthain it isn't right for Console gamers to figure out a solution the goal of SE was to make the solution to prevent this, it isn't fair nor right, yes coordinating is easier however if FFXIV REQUIRED voice to win/beat the dungeons/turns/other places etc, they would have added the voice-chat in-game.

But they didn't, I see your point but I don't see how this will help console players, even the ps4 will not be allowed mumble or 3rd party but yet they can talk to 8 people on voice chat, it seems silly to me so we have ps4 members on that, and pc on mumble, I wish Square would allow the voice feature in parties only or something because otherwise this may get even worse.

The ps3 from day one has had voice problems, something to do with how much memory the system uses while it's running a game. There are a very few number of games on the ps3 with voice chat that actually works correctly. Asking SE to fix a problem that isn't theirs to begin with is not fair. At least in this game, you can hook a keyboard to your ps3 and communicate that way. Most of the ps3 games, you're not even able to do that, and wind up not be able to talk to your buddies because the voice communications cuts in and out consistently. If you ever played BF3 on the ps3, you could set up a squad and talk to your squadmates, but only if there were 3 or less people in the squad. Once it hit 4, no one could talk anymore. EA spent years trying to bypass the ps3 limitations with it, but to this day, it's still buggy as shit. To expect SE to have added voice in this game for ps3 users is a bit much.

The use of voice coms while useful is not required to play any game. People will always argue that it is better but in reality it is just more convenient.
I have never used voice coms in an MMO. I have also never had problems completing content.

Seeing as you can TWITCH your PS4 gameplay, I fully expect to see a Teamspeak app available in the Sony Store within 6-12 months. Considering that the PS4 version doesn't even open beta for 90 days from today, is another reason why you shouldn't get grandma's knickers all knotted up at the moment.

Most people I play with use teamspeak and so does my FC so I downloaded the ts3 app to my phone for iphone. Doesn't prevent me from playing at all even without a PC and laptop

Because you shouldn't play MMO on consoles from the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

The use of voice coms while useful is not required to play any game. People will always argue that it is better but in reality it is just more convenient.
I have never used voice coms in an MMO. I have also never had problems completing content.

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This.

Personally, hearing voices just makes me play worse.

My experience is that VoIP helps people play better, every guild I have ever been in has used it to at the very least learn content and contrary examples is very rare.

IDK man, I'm still going to insist that pugs who join my pre-mades join the TS channel to at least listen in. I haven't had one person refuse yet and our runs are smooth because of it; if it isn't broke I'm not fixing it.

It's sad for the people who can't for some reason though it amazes me that someone would have a console with internet and a monthly MMO sub and not own a computer.

i for one would never play an mmo in a console, and yes teamspeak is a must have in every guild of every mmo ive played, saying it isnt required is bullshit has it makes everything faster and smoother, and allows for mid fight isntant communication ...

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Because you shouldn't play MMO on consoles from the beginning.

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Computers are for making documents and spreadsheets. Video game consoles are for playing video games.

Then again, I play FFXIV on my computer (using a 360 controller, but still) >.>;;

Then again, I consider MMOs in general one step above social network games, slightly better than facebook..............

And I should stop talking soon.

I think it depends on whats available to most players in the FC. A couple of us in our group play on a PS3 by choice and we use mumble on our laptops or phones. I saw your point that not everything is available on say... the android market for example, but I think it would be up to the FC leader to set up a service thats available to the biggest amount of their FC members.

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Originally Posted by Warthain

i for one would never play an mmo in a console, and yes teamspeak is a must have in every guild of every mmo ive played, saying it isnt required is bullshit has it makes everything faster and smoother, and allows for mid fight isntant communication ...

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So you are admitting that you lack the skill to work through game content unless you can hear someone telling you what to do?

It is convenient nothing more. I have never played an MMO with coms and none of the guilds/linkshells i have been in ever required it. We completed content just fine. If you are aware of your surroundings and you know what is going on and trust the people you are playing with then it isn't essential.
Stating it is required is just lies. Plenty of people play without it and do just as well as people who do use them.

People like to make others play the way they want. So naturally people who cannot be bothered to type will insist on people needing to use something.

You don't seem to have accomplished much, imagine what TS3 could do for you.

I'm really sorry but the argument that voice chat doesn't improve coordination and team play is just fallacious. Even if it could be done as efficiently via text chat, it takes away your attention from the field. It would be like asking a football team to read/write SMS texts from the captain and the coach during a match. It's just not possible. Communication by text is just not as efficient as communication by voice, we've known that for thousands of years…

• Can you manage without voice chat?
  —> Probably, depending on the difficulty on the content and the pre-existing experience of players and initial level of team play.
• Is text as efficient?
  —> Certainly not.
  Just look at other very competitive (hard) games based on team play, such as FPS/RTS/MOBA team and the likes: do you see any of these teams using text chat instead of voice chat? No.
• Is it nice, does it please everyone to hear/speak during combat?
  —> Arguably, no (though some like it very much). I say it comes with playing in a team, like you do in reality.
  And once you're used to it, it's certainly simple, and quite appreciable, to be able to just "say something", like "I can't <do action X>, can you <player Y>?" or "beware, <event Z> is coming". And even short of hard content, it's just a nice way to have fun during play, with your friends, casually talking and making jokes. It has a lot of this old feeling of just sitting with a friend and a couple of controllers in front of the screen. Personally, it gives me that old console feeling on PC.
• Is there a better alternative?
  —> Short of sitting in the same room and talking through air, I don't know of any.

That being said, is it SE's fault that there's no in-game voice chat? I don't think so, since in most MMO's players prefer third-party solutions anyway (better quality usually). And the PS3 just wouldn't be able to do it since the FF XIV client already pushes it to its limits.

It also falls within FC leaders responsibility to make sure that everyone can access their tools, such as voice chat. This is why we chose Mumble in my FC, because it's available on smartphones and as an open-source program it's usually cheaper (could actually be free).

From a strictly theoretical standpoint, there could be possibilities to allow a smartphone/tablet to do that job. A Mumble or TeamSpeak app + headphone/mic + some input device to be able to push a button to talk could theoretically do the job (like a button you'd stick on your controller, or a pedal or something — i don't know of any though, though pedals exist for PC's and work wonders to free gamers' hands for push-to-talk).

I think MMO's are rather new on consoles, and until this gen (PS3, X1) they weren't up to the task of multitasking apps; and as such voice chatting during games is a feature very much in its infancy on consoles. Therefore as far as reality is concerned, you're better off with a PC for now (if you wish to do competitive content or simply facilitate and improve your team play). I sincerely hope either smart devices and/or consoles will step up their game to allow for players to be as competitive, team-play wise, as PC players, in the near future. I really do. The sooner, the better. Until we figure out telepathy or something, voice chats aren't going away. It's been 15+ years we use them, and there hasn't been a better alternative found yet.

We have 2 PS3 players in our Coil group (and have pugged others) and they all join us in our mumble room, it isn't that hard to get into.

I certainly agree that it would be nice if there was an equally available voice chat for everyone, but it's hardly a necessity. Anything you need to do can be coordinated with a combination of macros and Focus Target. Including Rot Passing. Even though PS3 doesn't yet have focus target, all it requires is the person before the PS3er to have a "Passed Rot!" macro. THe PS3er doesn't need Focus Target or voice chat to move to the next person when their counter hits 5s. Turn 2 Silence rotations are nothing compared to the full party stun rotations we used to have in FFXI and we did that entirely with macros

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Originally Posted by Alcyon_Densetsu

words

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It doesn't make it a necessity. It doesn't mean people who do not want to use coms will be unable to complete content.

That is the point being made.
Yes some people like it. Some people feel they do better using it. Some people feel they do better without it.

Football teams usually talk to the coach when play is stopped. While the game is actually being played they may shout to each other a little but choices are being made from experience and what they can see. Unless football has changed so much that they are running around with mics and headphones in their ears now.

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Originally Posted by kaidennightshade

However Warthain it isn't right for Console gamers to figure out a solution the goal of SE was to make the solution to prevent this, it isn't fair nor right

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No MMO is built with the specific requirement for voice communication. You can clear all content without it, provided the players know the fight. People want Voice Comms for Coil due to it being easier to speak out about things that are happening, than to type it.

Voice makes it easier but is not an actual requirement to play.

Surely you have a PC in the house somewhere. Invest in a wireless headset and set up a Voice Comms program on your PC. Problem solved.

I don't even care if people don't want to actually talk on voip, all I want is that they can hear what we're saying, this is where battle discussion is, if someone is missing out, then they're the weakest link in our party.
Is it so damning to ask people to just listen?

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

So you are admitting that you lack the skill to work through game content unless you can hear someone telling you what to do?

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Sweet personal attack, bro.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

It doesn't make it a necessity. It doesn't mean people who do not want to use coms will be unable to complete content.

That is the point being made.
Yes some people like it. Some people feel they do better using it. Some people feel they do better without it.

Football teams usually talk to the coach when play is stopped. While the game is actually being played they may shout to each other a little but choices are being made from experience and what they can see. Unless football has changed so much that they are running around with mics and headphones in their ears now.

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You're right, no necessity. I made sure I worded it as such. I just pointed how it could be better in some cases, depending on one's goals, and the fact that's unarguably easier to use a voice chat.

The point being made by the OP is there's "a huge concern that pc players are indeed breaking away from [console] players", that's what I'm discussing. Yes, short of using voice chats, I agree with him.

Football was just an example. As you say choices are made from experience, but to build that experience, you need training. In video games, training is done on-the-fly, there are no training sessions separated from the real matches, thus voice chat is always present. You do speak much more during progression than during farm mode (when you're trying to kill a boss you've never managed to as opposed to killing it for the tenth time). And consider other games/sports where players talk a lot, you might get the idea. Really, you can't argue that voice chat doesn't improve coordination.

In the end, some people don't like it and don't want to use it, so you can't force them (I wish they at least tried if they could, but that another debate); likewise some like it or just know they can't do as good without using it, and you can't force them not to ("not forcing" players goes both ways…); so these two groups of players will just have to accept not to play together. It's a sorry situation but there's no way around it if nobody wants to adapt; and arguably as I explained, the easiest/most efficient way to play is with a voice chat. It's a fact that it's detrimental not to, as far as 'winning' in team-based games is the goal.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

So you are admitting that you lack the skill to work through game content unless you can hear someone telling you what to do?

It is convenient nothing more. I have never played an MMO with coms and none of the guilds/linkshells i have been in ever required it. We completed content just fine. If you are aware of your surroundings and you know what is going on and trust the people you are playing with then it isn't essential.
Stating it is required is just lies. Plenty of people play without it and do just as well as people who do use them.

People like to make others play the way they want. So naturally people who cannot be bothered to type will insist on people needing to use something.

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id say its the difference between clearing an instance and wiping a million times due to lack of communication. voice chat just makes things a lot more organized. period.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

Sweet personal attack, bro.

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It was making an obvious point.

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Originally Posted by kaidennightshade

However Warthain it isn't right for Console gamers to figure out a solution the goal of SE was to make the solution to prevent this, it isn't fair nor right, yes coordinating is easier however if FFXIV REQUIRED voice to win/beat the dungeons/turns/other places etc, they would have added the voice-chat in-game.

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Isn't that arguing against your own point? You are saying SE should make a way for console and pc players to be on a level playing field. They have. Voice chat isn't integrated into one or the other versions of the game and as you said it isn't required to use to beat content. SE isn't the one preventing people from clearing content, it is the community. SE has done their job in my book.

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Originally Posted by Sixmp

It was making an obvious point.

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And I'm quite certain you're capable of making a point without personally attacking someone. It worsens your credibility when you do.

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Originally Posted by Verius_Nox

And I'm quite certain you're capable of making a point without personally attacking someone. It worsens your credibility when you do.

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If you actually see the post you can see it was a question. Which the answer was obvious. It may have been blunt. It was hardly a personal attack.
If you want to ignore my points based on that that is up to you.

The one important thing to remember about this stuff is that people are way different in vent etc than their in game personas. Internet anonymity is different when only typed words are involved. The moment you step across the voice barrier, people usually start to become more defensive about their self image and aren't so quick to troll etc in front of other people who suddenly are much more "real." Groups aka guilds/linkshells/free companies/whatever are more likely to stay together as a result. You should absolutely pursue groups that require voice chat for that reason alone. The best groups have always used voice chat and that's why they're the best, but it's not because it helps you win. It's because it helps keep the group together through losses and wins simply come naturally as a result.

I don't really have an answer for PS3 folk except that 1)you should use a SSD on your PS3/PS4 if you can afford it, and 2)if you can manage voice chat in any method I suggest you do it. People don't care if you speak or not. They just want you to be there in the channel, period. As a raid leader the very last thing I want is everyone talking, causing distractions and making my life harder than it needs to be. Beyond the above, you know, I don't know what to say except that your gaming experience will suffer. Not everyone gets the best gaming experience out of MMOs. Just a fact of life. Even if you know what to do, best of luck convincing recruiting FC's to take you on your word. Show them some gear from the raid area and maybe that'll be enough for them to give you a trial run to prove your worth without voice chat.

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Originally Posted by ruinedmirage

Computers are for making documents and spreadsheets. Video game consoles are for playing video games.

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Are we back in the 80's?

I think it is perfectly reasonable for a group of players to require voice chat for their pug. If you have absolutely no access to voice chat, then you shouldn't expect to get in that pug.

Before my static came together, we we're pugging 1-3 people in coil every week. We even tried a few people who didn't have voice chat, and it was awful. It was always the same story everytime. "I don't need voice i've done every fight up until turn 5, I know them all" *player dies within minutes of each fight* "I'm lagging soooooooo bad" - yeah right... suuuuuure.

We've had 2 summoners we've pugged for turn 4 with no voice chat. Both times we tell them don't attack the knight... phase 2 they're dead with 2 seconds from... can you guess it?

Yeah, no more... We've refused to take people who can't manage to get voice chat. If you have absolutely no access to voice chat at all, find access or don't run with those pugs.

I mentioned this would be a problem back in beta for that very reason. As content gets more difficult you're gonna see a divide occur between people who can use voice chat and people who can't, mmos have been around long enough for chat programs to have become an established norm. It was easy to see this was going to be an issue with a cross-platform mmo before it even went live.

I got attacked on the beta forums for pointing it out. Mostly I suspect becuase ps3 users get angry and anxious when you point to any of their disadvantages because they get secretly or at least subconsciously nervous that se is gonna just up one day think oh yeah this was a bad idea, this forum poster is right! And then stop ps3 support.

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Originally Posted by kaidennightshade

However Warthain it isn't right for Console gamers to figure out a solution the goal of SE was to make the solution to prevent this, it isn't fair nor right, yes coordinating is easier however if FFXIV REQUIRED voice to win/beat the dungeons/turns/other places etc, they would have added the voice-chat in-game.

But they didn't, I see your point but I don't see how this will help console players, even the ps4 will not be allowed mumble or 3rd party but yet they can talk to 8 people on voice chat, it seems silly to me so we have ps4 members on that, and pc on mumble, I wish Square would allow the voice feature in parties only or something because otherwise this may get even worse.

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Voice is not required. In other games the add their own voice chats but FFXIV, dont need one and will never have one.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

Because you shouldn't play MMO on consoles from the beginning.

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Square Enix is still the only major commercial company to have 2 cross-platform MMOs.

The American-based giant Activision-Blizzard can't even manage to make their single MMO cross-platform.

"im sure you have a pc somewhere"
If we had a pc why play it on the console to begin with?

I have a console i like my big tv. As for ps4 they have a psn voice chat for 8 people exclusive to ps4s sony why add other voice apps? Theyd lose money bc ffxiv doesnt require + so these other apps wouldnt either.

If this is the only game i play they make no $

For people that are not on the recieving end try to put yourself in others shoes. Also high internet speeds are not available everywhere imagine being kicked for no voice. Imagine you unable to do coils because you are a console player.

Now you need to see how hurtful it is. We all want to get geared for endgame. Not all ps3 players are bad nor pc.. this requirement players set needs to go because its discriminating a gm has told me file it under harassment. So now that thats occuring i shouldnt have to report a player for doing this most of us are all adults. Why cant pc players just accept we want helped so we can help.

Sorry about some typos on my post... I am on my android to post. Lol.

Ya, basically, you can pretty much run any dungeon with just a little bit of typing, watching, and learning. Marking... and a couple deaths, and viola.

No need for much more coordination, right?

Just TYPE! I run most dungeons correctly first try... Or at least one death then can learn, yeah? No? IDK.

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Originally Posted by firepixiedarien

Square Enix is still the only major commercial company to have 2 cross-platform MMOs.

The American-based giant Activision-Blizzard can't even manage to make their single MMO cross-platform.

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because in an interview, they said they didnt want wow to be on console due to their limitations, and i agree, FF14 is much easier then wow because it needs to cater to console players, it has far less theory crafting needed to maximise the specs in this game. its not a case of cant, its a case of wont

Do people that refuse to use VC just expect to be carried, or just never been to twintania?

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Originally Posted by MieyCyruuuus

Do people that refuse to use VC just expect to be carried, or just never been to twintania?

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If you need the extra help of coms who is carrying who?

Once you know a fight you do not need coms, therefore not using coms will make it take a little longer to learn a fight, sometimes. IF at all.
Unless of course you are stating that FFXIV content is suddenly the hardest mmo ever made?