Turn 4 WHM Aggro

So, While trying to do Turn 4 today I was healing our Warrior tank (whom was on soldiers) and no matter what I did I would continuously take aggro. Even when saving Shroud of Saints for aggro rather than mana regen, I would try to keep the warrior at around 50-75% and still rip aggro from him. Everyone in my raid just kept telling me to "watch my aggro" but I'm not sure how I could go about doing it without actually letting him die. I don't know if its just unlucky crit bursts but he is well geared and holds aggro well any other time, but even just a simple Cures in succession would tear the threat away from him. Any suggestions on how I can reduce my threat during these phases? I feel like I'm doing something wrong but I also don't see any way to fix the issue.:confused:

Probably because it's a warrior. The healing recieved buff increases your enmity. If you have a scholar maybe have them main heal the WAR while you heal the paladin, assuming your party uses that as their second tank class.

That's on the tank. Don't feel bad. Probably, he isn't splitting his combos across all adds effectively. If you are healing him just enough to keep him alive, that's on him. Over power alone should out agro you.

Yeah, We weren't running a SCH. I know a couple times I was getting really high crit heals (like 3.5k+) but that's not really controllable. I just need a solid way to decrease my threat through the entire fight. I even dropped using Regen at all, but I'm thinking maybe if our other WHM threw Regen on our Warrior so I don't have to heal as much but that doesn't really solve my issue.

WAR emnity is broken. This has been acknowledged by Yoshi-P. They require more healing and have a healing buff which increases YOUR emnity by 15%, not including the issue with how spikey their damage recieved is to begin with.

They are getting an emnity buff Dec. 9 with when 2.1 rolls out.

Edited to add: Also, if he doesn't have provoke he has no business complaining at all about anything you do.

You can try virus and E4E to see if that helps reduce your need to cure.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PetiteMalFleur

WAR emnity is broken. This has been acknowledged by Yoshi-P. They require more healing and have a healing buff which increases YOUR emnity by 15%

They are getting an emnity buff Dec. 9 with when 2.1 rolls out.

Edited to add: Also, if he doesn't have provoke he has no business complaining at all about anything you do.

You can try virus and E4E to see if that helps reduce your need to cure.

---

I have virus but I wasn't really thinking of using it, thanks for the tip, Now I just need to look into E4E and hope that helps.

I know that WAR's are sorta broken right now, but I don't really have the time to wait for Dec. 9th to roll around for the Warrior buffs in a competitive guild that doesn't take static groups and rotates people according to what we need, and with me pulling all this aggro, its looking more like they'll take a SCH over me our next raid date, So I need to find a solid solution.

Get a SCH to heal him (less hate) or tell him to go on PLD

why stress your party on a gimp job especially on T4.

dont be so quick to blame the tank just because he's WAR. we have a WAR OT and he manages just fine. now, is he losing aggro continuously throughout the fight? or just when the adds spawn in P5 and P6? if it's the former then something is wrong. if it's the latter that's normal to struggle with. is he tanking the dreads or the adds?

1st, pick up a SCH. they can succor the party before P6 which prevents you from having to heal immediately. 2nd, have the WAR only pick up certain adds. we left the rook to a BRD. see what your dps can handle by themselves. 3rd, its important to even out dmg taken between tanks. if OT is taking much more than MT, let MT tank 2 dreads. if MT takes more then get his dread down after you clear out some OT adds. 4th, dont be afraid to have them use flash. the aggro is worth more than the hp lost. 5th, have WAR kite. he will have less hate than if he stands still but he wont need as many heals so it evens out

also wanted to mention (stupid character limit): you, any SMNs, SCHs, BLMs, etc will be wanting to rotate eye for an eye and virus on whichever tank/mob is taking/dealing more dmg. in our case that was the PLD who was tanking double dread but it could be different depending on strat. meanwhile your tanks have to be rotating their CDs effectively. don't neglect tank LB: a dps LB helps to get rid of rook quickly or to burn the last mob when the pulses come but tank LB can save the group. best times to use it are when the tanks really need it or at the start of the aoe pulse. you can even try using it right at the start of P6 to avoid aggro during the transition but that's risky

you can edit your post and add the rest of your txt (bypass the limit)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

I have virus but I wasn't really thinking of using it, thanks for the tip, Now I just need to look into E4E and hope that helps.

I know that WAR's are sorta broken right now, but I don't really have the time to wait for Dec. 9th to roll around for the Warrior buffs in a competitive guild that doesn't take static groups and rotates people according to what we need, and with me pulling all this aggro, its looking more like they'll take a SCH over me our next raid date, So I need to find a solid solution.

---

If they are hassling you that much over a broken class I would say they are not worth it. There are nice coil groups out there who are clearing this content and willing to help you learn. If you think your WAR is geared because he has the same gear as the paladin he is wrong. WAR needs twice as much gear while a pally is able to solo tank turns 1-4. The damage mitigation of a scholar is only going to be looked on more favorably in future content and it's short sighted for them to have formed the group with two white mages only to realize this after taking the party into turn 4. It's unfortunate they'd consider booting you over the other WHM because of the tank they assigned you to heal. It's obvious you'd be the clear choice to keep when you do so much research and seek help from other healers in helping you be as effective as possible in clearing this content.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

stuff

---

Unfortunately it looks like if they procure a scholar it will be the OP who gets replaced. It doesn't sound like this party has much damage mitigation to help her not pull hate and WAR has almost no damage mitigating cooldowns either. Very poor party setup to have two WHM with a WAR.

I really hope the OP can get some good suggestions and convince the raid leader to adjust strategy to accommodate their current choice in party setup.

I'm not even WHM main, I main DRG. I don't blame them for wanting to try a different makeup and that doesn't make them bad people, but with a WAR, where the class is already underpowered compared to the abilities of a PLD in terms of threat regen and mitigation, it seems like a SCH, who has less threat gen than WHM's would be a better pick anyways, Its just personally I would rather be there of course. Like I said, we don't really have too many static players, maybe 3-4 in each group that we run, the rest of us are rotated in and out accordingly. Its not a problem with progression either since they've downed T4 before without me, and this is one of my first times even seeing it, Maybe its better they take the SCH anyway since I'm having issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

now, is he losing aggro continuously throughout the fight? or just when the adds spawn in P5 and P6? if it's the former then something is wrong. if it's the latter that's normal to struggle with. is he tanking the dreads or the adds?

---

He is holding aggro fine up until certain unfortunate points. As said in my first post, he's taking the soldiers and not the dreads, The PLD is on the dreads. Picking up a SCH would mean dropping me, and thats something I'm looking to avoid.

Their better choice would be to drop the WAR and get another pally. WAR is worse than pally in coil in every way. Here's a good breakdown on why. It mentions aggro issues and the problems you'd face with having him kite the adds due to his poor damage mitigation and inability to hold aggro as well with him moving.
forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/119125-So-what-exactly-IS-the-issue-with-Warrior

Warrior being part of the static group, Thats not gonna happen either, the only option for me is to keep researching ways to drop my aggro and suggest things to the raid.

or you know you can work on SCH and secure a perm spot in your static

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderz

you can edit your post and add the rest of your txt (bypass the limit)

---

awesome, thanks!

re: getting replaced, there's always this:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Thunderz

or you know you can work on SCH and secure a perm spot in your static

---

and if you're not into that, why is it that they want to replace you and not the other WHM? is the other WHM vastly out-gearing/performing you? you could always try to get them to replace the other WHM instead.

ultimately what you really want to be looking to do is join a static group that will let you play what you want. you can even make your own; that's what i did. but running each week with zero sense of consistency about who will get canned and when isn't a blueprint for a successful group. i get the feeling that this topic is less about the aggro issue and more about your misgivings regarding the group.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

i get the feeling that this topic is less about the aggro issue and more about your misgivings regarding the group.

---

It's not but thats what you're trying to make it out to be...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

It's not but thats what you're trying to make it out to be...

---

ok. that's fine. no reason to get defensive; that's just where this seemed to be heading. anyway i gave my .02 re: the aggro so i'll take my leave and hope you figure it out

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jumpypuppet

ok. that's fine. no reason to get defensive; that's just where this seemed to be heading. anyway i gave my .02 re: the aggro so i'll take my leave and hope you figure it out

---

It went that direction with people suggesting to pick up a SCH instead of answering my question and providing a real solution. When you make the issue about the way the the free company runs the raids of course it would seem that way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

It went that direction with people suggesting to pick up a SCH instead of answering my question and providing a real solution. When you make the issue about the way the the free company runs the raids of course it would seem that way.

---

There isn't another solution. You're not doing anything wrong, and the only other option you'd have is to have a SCH (either a co-healer or yourself going SCH) heal the tank instead. That's what people are trying to get through to you. There is no other way to dump your threat other than dying.

We usually use WHM+SCH healing turn 4. Our second tank is sometimes WAR and SCH heals him until the last two waves, when SCH changes to healing MT and WHM handles the OT. Interestingly we tried 2xWHM in one run and had similar enmity issues with healers pulling hate off the WAR OT, but when we changed back to WHM+SCH these problems disappeared. I would suggest trying SCH healing the WAR during first phases as that worked for us, even though I can't really explain why.

There have been a number of recent threads on reddit regarding WHM healing aggro during Turn 4, specifically during this phase. In the majority of cases it has been due to the fact the WHM is healing OT with all of the adds, and simply swapping the healing roles with a SCH seems to solve the issue. There way may not be way to solve the aggro issue, due to the current way that WAR threat and WHM threat both work. You may have to wait until 2.1 or swap in a SCH until that time. Of course this doesn't solve your issue so let's see if we can come up with something that might help. So here are a few questions to try and clarify things.

You said you still have threat even when you use Shroud. When do you use shroud during that phase?

Does anyone in your group tank other mobs like the Rook? Is your group a combination of melee and ranged or all ranged?

Right before you transition into this phase, is the WAR topped off, or are you having to heal him with a big heal as the next phase mobs are dropping?

Do you or the other WHM cast Stoneskin on the WAR before the transition drops?

Ignore the people saying you need to sub SCH or PLD to fix this issue. First of all, this phase is tough for WHM regardless; even when being very careful I can often pull aggro from our PLD. The way to resolve this is to keep the tank alive for the first 5-10 seconds without actually healing him. Here is what I do:

(1) At the end of P1, when there is still 3-4 spiders remaining, I use Eye for an Eye. I haven't tested the effects of casting it before a tank establishes aggro, but I'm pretty sure it would increase your enmity (as just about everything else does). Casting in the previous phase will make sure it doesn't affect you for P2.

(2) When there is 1-2 spiders remaining, cast Stoneskin. For the same reasons as #1, you don't want to cast this at the start of P2. If the spiders hit the tank after stoneskin is up, it wont be enough to remove it. In my group, the tank is usually moving into position at this point while dps is picking them off.

(3) Virus one of the adds; this will do a lot to reduce damage. If you know that one of the adds is going to be staggered or go down within 5-10s, Virus the other one.

(4) Divine Seal + Regen: the absolute best heal (per mana point) you have. It won't offset the massive damage they're taking, but it will buy you time without ripping hate outright. By the time you're casting this it should be about 3-4 seconds into the fight. I cast this while I'm running to my spot on the north end of the arena.

(5) Depending on the tank's gear, you might be able to fit in another stoneskin here before you have to start healing. There's not a good reason not to use swiftcast to make sure you can get it in time; this will generate much less threat than a heal.

IF YOU STEAL AGGRO: do not run away, do NOT shroud immediately. Remember, shroud cuts your enmity in half, but if you're using it too early in you'll still have a fair bit generated. Move to the tank (but outside aoe range of other mob); let it hit you until he takes aggro back and then shroud. If he can't take aggro back before you die then that's on him, but there's no reason he shouldn't be able to do it.

@Hiro: Not sure that will work for a Warrior tank. I can generally go a lot longer not healing a PLD than I can a WAR. Even with Eye for an Eye + Stoneskin, they take significantly more damage than a PLD.

i dont play warrior but what i would do to mimic what i do on pld would be

heavy swing one of the spiders before moving into position for the soldier

soon as the solider lands you would pop skull sunder

target over to the knight and hit it with tomahawk

pop 2 flashes and then go into whatever else warriors do to stay alive and generate threat

pop flash between combos if you have 2 blm's


i lose aggro to dps never to healers

oh and what that other guy said was true also, pop eye4eye and stoneskin before the solider/knight comes, lead with regen as your heal

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LiadansWhisper

@Hiro: Not sure that will work for a Warrior tank. I can generally go a lot longer not healing a PLD than I can a WAR. Even with Eye for an Eye + Stoneskin, they take significantly more damage than a PLD.

---

I have focus-healed a WAR through that phase a number of times and that strat still works for me. I think the fact that stoneskin will be more effective might make it even better on them. You could even try stoneskin spam for the first 10 seconds and see how that does; it will generate far less hate. Maybe tonight when I do T4 I will try PoM + Stoneskin spam and see how it goes.

E4E and Virus help alot on T4, get a rotation going between SMN, BLM, SCH, etc.
I had similar problems where the tank was even told focus the knight ignore the soldier, this works in theory except healers get smashed. A random flash or just smacking the mob occasionally helped a lot. I also save Shroud for this time as they start spinning and beating on tanks / melee as I see threat go high around this time.

Ignoring the soldier is a good way to get your healer killed. I haven't confirmed this myself, but what I've been told is that the full value of enmity is still transferred through stoneskin, so the tank should not be ignoring the soldier in his rotations.

No one mentions it could be yuor fault for pulling aggro? I'm not saying it is, but could very well be.

Phase transitions can be tricky healing at first, any hots rolling will give you aggro as soon as the next phase drops. First thing I would do is make sure yuo have no regens/medicka 2s rolling when you go through a phase transition. I assume you all stack in the middle, so that he can grab aggro off of everything (at least intially).

Hold off on healing, if you can, until you see your enmity bars go green after a drop, once they are green, you should be relatively fine for aggro until the next set drops.

If your doing that already, well, its probably the tank.

i think ignoring the soldier only works if you have the right group to do that

Thanks for the help everyone but I was dismissed from the free company so the issue is closed.

Thanks again.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisersoke

Thanks for the help everyone but I was dismissed from the free company so the issue is closed.

Thanks again.

---

If they had a Warrior tank who couldn't hold threat and decided to put that on the healer, then you didn't want to be a part of them anyway.