I've noticed that some healers cast regen on me before i pull, and that sometimes messes up my pull big time. But I am reluctant to tell the healer not to do that because idk if theres something im doing wrong or if the healer just shouldnt do that. can someone help?:confused:
Casting regen before pull
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11-20-2013, 08:38 AMSeaside8Casting regen before pull
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11-20-2013, 08:39 AMLeon_Stormrage
The healer shouldn't do that, at least if he doesn't want to tank this pull haha
Also you should check your status and dismiss the regen buff before a pull because if it last from one pull to other and the mobs runs crazy to hit the healer will be your fault -
11-20-2013, 08:42 AMElladie
The healer shouldn't do that. But you can remove the Regen buff by clicking on it. If you continue to get it cast on you just before a pull, maybe politely mention that it causes the mobs to go straight for the WHM and that they are fine to cast it a few seconds into the fight, once you have hate established. They probably aren't aware of the problem
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11-20-2013, 08:43 AMEbon_Drake
If a healer casts regen on you before you pull... You smack them firmly on the nose, shout "BAD HEALER!! BAD!! NO!!" and you right click the buff to get rid of it..
If they learn quick, give them a treat by a light swat on the butt saying "good girl/boy!"
If they continue to disobey you, you rub their nose in it by waiting for their regen, running into the largest pack of mobs you can find (multiple packs are good) and then running back to them and dancing, or sitting, /pose is also acceptable. -
11-20-2013, 08:47 AMZakalwe
I've started noticing more of this from well-geared healers in wp/ak df runs. I now pay close attention to regens that need removal before pulls. Not just WHM. Scholar healbots will also often put them on, unbeknownst to to the scholar.
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11-20-2013, 08:50 AMMaqaqa
Dont be reclutant <.<
I mean you arent telling them they are terribad, just asking to not cast regen before a pull. -
11-20-2013, 09:23 AMwarren-ragnarok
part of the problem is most the healers that do that either dont know what enmity/agro is, or just plain lazy.....there is almost no reason at all for them to cast regen at the end or beginning of a fight. if they want to top you off, they should use cure or adloqium (idk if thats the right spell, but idc either) or let it automatically recover.
me personally, when i do heal, i always top off the tank at the end of a fight and then pop swiftcast + stoneskin.....but im also not a lazy healer and normally dont pull much threat since i try to avoid overhealing, and just use stoneskin to help with mitigation too, and i usually use more than 4 buttons when healing in most fights, including trash mobs -
11-20-2013, 09:43 AMBrises
When the previous group of mobs is nearly done, I cast stoneskin on the tank just before the last one is dead. That creates a buffer as the tank pulls the next group or more, so there is sufficient time for the tank to get agro before any healing is needed. Never ever cast anything during a pull.
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11-20-2013, 10:22 AMGarnatian
Just tell them to stop.
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11-20-2013, 11:12 AMMaqaqaThis is what good healers do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brises
Healers casting regen before pulls should just replace regen with stoneskin and turn a bad habit into a good one. -
11-20-2013, 11:30 AMDevils
thank God it' snot just me. Even with local shout groups I have to tell healer to not cast regen on me before long pulls. THen they wonder why they are getting hit until we bunch up...........how can you not know the basic mechanic of your job like that?
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11-20-2013, 02:19 PMSmackyHuggins
I notice a lot of people here saying 'healers' when you should be saying 'WHM's'. As a SCH I have never defends a tank before a pull and messed that pull up.
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11-20-2013, 02:22 PMBrises
Actually should say "players" rather than "healer" or "whm" because the action is the choice of the player, not a design flaw of the class.
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11-20-2013, 05:16 PMIrenae
Just politely ask them to stop.
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11-20-2013, 05:57 PMDelorean
Ask them not to do it and/or pay attention when you pull and right click it off.
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11-20-2013, 08:49 PMGandora
Once I asked a very well geared healer to stop doing it because of the pull & hate mechanics, his answer was "I'm sorry the tank I normaly play with doesn't sucks, we clear BCT4 in 30 mins so I know what i'm doing.."
I just loled at him & went out of the WP. -
11-20-2013, 10:39 PMZakalweCan also be a Scholar's healing pet, though in that case it would be a regen left over from the previous fight, but if not removed it will still mess up the aggro on the next pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by SmackyHuggins
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11-20-2013, 10:53 PMRochetm
Tell them to stop. Best they learn in WP/AK and not punish people in Coil by doing that.
Whm should never use Regen before a pull or when adds are going to be spawning soon... that is unless the whm wants to be tanking. -
11-21-2013, 12:26 AMLeon_StormrageBut if the pull go for Eos is the tank fault because he must dismiss the regen buff before initiate a pullQuote:
Originally Posted by Zakalwe
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11-21-2013, 03:05 AMBabylyn90I don't understand responses like this, they drive me nuts. Wouldn't you want a run to go as smoothly as possible, especially when you PUG and run with groups of different skill level? If it means changing a regen to stoneskin, or not using regen during the pull, so what? You can't expect to use the EXACT same dynamics every PUG run, so responses like that are just stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gandora
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11-21-2013, 03:52 AMPhreakStraight from the Tanking 101 handbook.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebon_Drake
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11-21-2013, 05:54 AMPetiteMalFleur
They don't realize it pulls threat. Seriously, read the healer forum to see how many players say regen is good to keep up on tank at all times in every instance and good to throw on all dps who take any damage. Those who know will politely correct them.
Ask them to not use any heals until you can get initial hate. Not saying anything only punishes the other people trying to get through the content with a smooth run. -
11-21-2013, 05:59 AMPetiteMalFleur
About coil.... I had a WHM duo (they insisted rather than play their SCH) who kept throwing regen on the tank right before or at pull. Anyone who has tanked turn 2 knows how threat works. First mob I see her use regen at pull. I tell her not to do that again. Second mob Tank was good enough to grab back after it went straight for her. Tank takes 100 HP damage first hit and she was already precasting Cure II. Tank losses hate, she screams at him while ADS kills her and I solo heal the rest while SMN takes care of rez. Rinse, repeat every fight with multiple wipes even after we keep telling her how the mechanics work for WHM and hate.
Her response? SE needs to fix WHM. Ya. .. I'm playing WHM, have cleared turn 2, and not having a problem but it must be a fundamental issue that's broken in the game and not an intended mechanic we are meant to work with.
Some people don't care and think hate is 100% the tank's problem. If you try to teach them and they don't listen there is only so much you can do. But I'd rather say something than let the party blame the tank for something the WHM is doing. -
11-21-2013, 06:18 AMEizPart of the problem about people commenting without own experience is that their theories are very limited and simplistic.Quote:
Originally Posted by warren-ragnarok
Some people playing healer roles have been playing healing roles since 8 years ago, back at the beginning of FFXI.
Before every pull you used to re-buff all the party, specially the puller.
Any action you've used to pull, even the fact of aggroing the mob, gave you far more hate than any ability casted before engage.
And that makes sense, since there is no reason why a firefly could distinguish who is the healer in a party nor to argue which ability was casted 200 yalms far in another room.
I say this because is not only about the regen thick, you can check how any buff on party (Prot, SS..) earns you hate, some times even bigger than a pulling-action. -
11-21-2013, 06:22 AMwhiskeybravo
Holy crap this happened 4 times in a row last night with different healers. I did say something to one of the them and he replied "I like a challenge".. I was like it's not a challenge for you its a challenge for the tank to pull aggro back, why make it unnecessarily more difficult for the tank, you're not even healing cuz I'm already at full health lol.. I debated letting him die
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11-21-2013, 08:54 PMGandoraLets say you do WP and you come across the 1st group of 3 mobs (2 Crows & 1 Tomberry.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Eiz
Your tank will pull the toberry and aggro the birds. There is a big difference betwin both actions.
Tomahawk/Shield lob will generate enough enmity for the tomberry to stay on the tank when he receive a cure/regen/stoneskin, while the 2 crows linking with the tomberry just aggroed and so have 0 enmity toward the tank.
This being said, tank will lose the aggro which become enmity toward the healer because such as spell generate some enmity.
This is why a PLD start aggroing groups then make enmity with his AoE & Flash, and WAR do the same with Flash & Overpower.
Now the difference betwin WAR & PLD, its where healers get confused, a PLD AoE is a 360° attack alike Flash, Overpower is conal, forcing the WAR to put himself and the mobs in the right position in order to use it.
I mentioned WP, with Big tomberrys roaming, we need to aggro & quickly run on a side to securise ourselve and the party, because as soon as we stop to use flash the DDs thinks "Oh yeah lets go its panties on the head fest!" and then its near impossible to move mobs/party.
This is why it is annoying, you try to take the mobs, drive them somewhere safe & while we do that a healer pop his spell, force us to run back & forth, and while we do that the DDs doesn't think & start attacking randomly.
The result? at best we lose 4 mins because someone(s) wanted to gain 3 secs, at worse full wipe because the healer die either by getting killed by the 2 remaining mobs, or by the Fat tomberry.
And then what? "Hey tank you sucks, I know better then you because <insertanyrandombullshithere>" /ragequit. I just broke it down for you listing every step from a tank point of view.
I am WAR so I fall in the category where I need to position myself and mobs for overpower, so you can imagin that I'm less inclined to take that kind of shit, because if one might tell me how to play my job, he should also know what are our responsibility depending the situations/places and what it take from other party members for us to perform at our best.
Spoiler: Patience. -
11-21-2013, 08:59 PMGandoraIts like ppl who expect you to SR when using DF, both fall into the same category, even if its another subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babylyn90
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11-21-2013, 09:35 PMShmunkster
As a Healer I never Regen my tank. Regen is my gift to DPS...Tank get Cure and CureII only....with Stoneskin love!
Maybe in a Boss battle a Regen...but now I think about it....I can't even remember casting Regen on my Tankie for loooooooong time..... -
11-21-2013, 09:45 PMEverdark^ This. There is simply no reason for a tank to need a regen, and a dd that needs more than a regen is doing it wrongQuote:
Originally Posted by Shmunkster
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11-22-2013, 12:37 AMPetiteMalFleurExcept regen pulls hate every tick for every point it heals. Let's say my regen happily heals over time for 400hp power tick. Put that on 2 dps, or 4 dps in 8 man content. Essentially it's like you're casting medica 2 without the burst heal, but double the emnity. Granted, in most content having it on 2 dps makes no difference. Actually in all instances through Garuda it's completely unnecessary to use at all. It just seems risky in 8 man content to use like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Everdark
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11-22-2013, 12:47 AMwhiskeybravo
When I'm WHM I try to just use Regen on single enemy fights (like Dullahan in AK & Bosses), mainly just because it's a little extra OOMPH when using Cure. As a WAR I don't mind the Regen so long as I can solidify enmity on the mob first, I haven't had any problems maintaining enmity except when it's cast before the pull. Having both jobs helps me understand the dynamic a little better, I think.
As a side note, thanks for the tip about being able to right-click the effect off, I did not know that. -
11-22-2013, 01:11 AMRalemontI'm not sure this is the best way to handle things. If you're counting on Regen to take care of DPS then you end up either 1) overhealing them or 2) leaving them at low HP and counting on Regen ticks to bring them back to full, which can be dangerous. Just use a few Cures or a Cure 2 on the DPS and cast Regen on the tank early (after Flash) and mid-fight, remembering not to reapply towards the end of fights. Using Cure 1 on DPS also brings the potential benefit of Freecure procs to use on the tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shmunkster
HoT spells are, by their very nature, optimized by using them on targets that are going to constantly not be at maximum HP, which means tanks. Obviously for fights where a DPS will end up tanking for a bit (I'm thinking situations like Garuda HM adds) it makes sense to use Regen provided you have time between Medica II/Medica spam.