Today I went to check on my retainers, and decided to set one up in the mender's ward for repairs. Now I understand that some of the more popular sections of the wards fill up (battlecraft, middle tailor, armorsmith) but MENDER'S WARD should not be one of them. The mender's ward is packed with retainers either selling stuff that they can't sell in other sections because they are too full, or retainers that are empty but are still taking up a spot in the ward. Now I know that the problem may lie with the players. We should put our retainers in the correct section and and take responsible action with our retainers and disband them when they are no longer selling anything. But dev's you must understand... WE ARE LAZY. Most people just set up the retainers and leave them for extended periods of time unattended. And it has become too convenient to do so.
I have come to appreciate the way the markets were, when they crashed and folks would have to go and set up their retainers again. It was a hassle, but an effective form of crowd control the the markets. Now I'm not proposing we go back to that... but there must be another effective way to control the over crowding of the markets. Maybe reset them once a week, on a specific day (like every Monday). Or maybe dev's can find a way to automatically dismiss retainers that sell out of items.
Another part of the problem (which i must admit, I contribute to it) is that many players are running out of inventory space on retainers and themselves, and are forced to create more characters and more retainers. this, in turn, does not help the over-crowded markets! Now people have 4, 6, 8, 10 retainers filling up the markets. Some are even used as placeholders for other retainers... it's getting a bit out of control. I'm not sure how to remedy this situation, because as I have said, I am part of the problem in this instance. I'm sure down the line, dev's will have plans they want to implement for helping with inventory space. But until then we're going to have this problem. And you will continue to have idiots screaming that they want an Auction House instead just fixing what we have.
This was a new innovative way to have player's sell their items, so I understand why it has some issues, and why it's not perfect. And I sincerely believe that an Auction House is NOT the solution. The markets are fantastic, and they have improved drastically, but they still have a lot of bugs that need to be worked out. And I would hope that player's will contribute with ideas and suggestions, and not just "markets suck, we need Auction House." And maybe, (a huge maybe) players can try being more responsible with their retainers. I personally will make an effort and only have 2 retainers up at a time, no matter how many characters I have, to reduce over crowding. I know my small effort is nothing, but if more players did so, it would make a difference.
I know not many players will see this thread, as I have decided to post it in the correct area of the forums and no one really checks this section >.> But I am hoping maybe a dev will respond so that is will gain more exposure. Thanks.
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05-28-2011, 02:24 AMNeko_Yanagi[dev 1018] Over Crowded Wards (A Serious Discussion, Not a Plea for an AH)
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05-28-2011, 04:38 AMAmineri
I agree that a big part of the problem is not having that monthly charge deterrent. Combined with the limitations on retainer bazaar size and inventory overcrowding, it is 100% natural that people are creating 8 character (with 16 retainers per account). With the FFXIV retail box as cheap as it is, it would not surprise me that many people still playing have 2 or even three accounts, thus resulting in each such active player crowding the markets with 32 or 48 retainers.
Here are the intrinsic problems that I see with the system as it stands:- Inventory space (with 1 character and two retainers) is limited to 300, but there are currently over 4500 items in the game. If various HQ levels are included, that total shoots up to 18,000 items. This creates a LOT of inventory pressure.
- With only two retainers, only 20 bazaar slots are available. This creates tremendous opportunity cost issues when choosing what to sell. This leads to each player choosing to sell only those items that maximize their profit.
Now, simply increasing inventory sizes to allow players to store everything that they need will NOT address the problem. If people could store everything that they want, participation in the economy would drop substantially. To a large degree, this is already happening with the "power players" keeping stables of 32 or 48 (or more!) retainers. 48 retainers allows storage of 4800 items, essentially allowing one of every item in the game.
And remember, that those 32 or 48 retainers are all going to be clogging the markets (and the Ul'dah markets, at that).
I think that a likely first step is to adjust the way that the bazaar functions. Currently there is no incentive to sell goods with low profits.
I can't claim to have THE answer, but one thought occurs to me. Perhaps adjust the number of items that can be sold in a retainer's bazaar in the following way: Always at minimum 10 items can be listed. However, allow more items to be listed if the price per item is lower. Perhaps always allow more items to be added to the bazaar until the total selling value is 1 million gil, to toss out a number. -
05-28-2011, 02:06 PMAlzeliaVery well thought out!! I agree completelyQuote:
Originally Posted by Amineri
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05-28-2011, 10:59 PMEveille
Repost from a post I made in the GD forum (wasn't aware there was a market forum yet, I'm just now exploring forums x.x), that thread has 45 pages though and a lot more suggestions:
I like the market wards, what they could do is just make it possible to buy straight from the search screen so that players don't have to walk into the actual wards and crash them with people everywhere. However, I also like the option of being able to walk into the wards if I so chose and just browse around like people used to do in Rolanberry in XI. In fact, I think the market wards are a pretty good combo of rolanberry bazaars and AH, it was a pretty cool idea. Just add a buy option from the search screen.
Also having to be next to a bazaar to buy something is annoying, especially when I see something at a camp and the person starts a leve and runs off @_@. I get that it's realistic, but it's one of those realisms that I feel is unnecessary. -
06-12-2011, 12:07 PMzoozoo
Just had this problem tonight, and was going to make a thread about it until i saw this one.
It's very frustrating to change wards 6 or 7 times just to summon your retainer. It's even more frustrating when you have a certain item for sale, and can't sell in the appropriate ward because it's full. And when you look around at all the retainers, they're either empty or selling something completely unrelated to the ward they're in.
My solution: Make retainers despawn if they are empty, or if a retainer's bazaar prices haven't been changed in over 5 days (kind of like posting to to an AH, it would have a limit on how long the auction remains up). This way, if someone is just turtling the markets with overpriced goods, they'll at least have to refresh the bazaar every so often if they're serious about selling.
If this is a problem right now, i'd hate to see what it would become if FFXIV became more popular. This needs to get fixed, and soon. Not being able to access your retainer, or sell goods in the appropriate ward is such a huge play deterrent. -
06-14-2011, 03:28 AMRoaran
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...e-Market-Wards.
Still think this is the best solution.
Just set up a single ward, with an NPC to talk to and search for items, then you just summon the Retainer you want to buy from to you. Just like when you summon your own retainer, noone needs to see the summoned retainer besides you.
Wish more people would go to this thread and post, wondering if it's just too hard too understand, but the CURRENT market wards system, even with they link the wards and spread out the population will be a pain in the ass for the devs for years, and it will not last. -
06-15-2011, 03:23 AMChezen
I think despawning after selling out of items or a set period (I think 3 days is good) would help a lot.
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06-25-2011, 02:52 AMFuzball
I'm on Selbina, and every single market ward is full in Ul'dah! I've tried at least twice a day to summon a retainer in each of the wards for quite some time now... When I first saw the patch notes I was glad that they got on top of the issue before it got too annoying, but not being able to sell stuff is much more annoying than occasional crashes!
I'd seriously rather have the markets crash at least once a day so that a spot would open up--with the current stability of the market areas, I don't think I'll get a spot besides stands until someone either cancels their free account or gets kicked from the game ;_;
Anyone else having this problem to this degree?? -
06-25-2011, 08:48 AMlun4tic
Here's a screenshot of the issue:
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/6...ailersward.jpg
Note that one person has about a dozen shops set up, all with similar names. I doubt any single person can have so much to sell, but there's really no room for anybody else. -
06-25-2011, 09:36 AMFuzballI remember seeing them before the patch, but haven't noticed them since the view distance of retainers is now a centi-yalm in diameter ._.Quote:
Originally Posted by lun4tic
Does that count as abuse, or just an overindulgence of mithra?
As much as I loved the idea of being able to have a more interactive method of selling and buying items--this is just not working... and it's only getting worse as they try to salvage the idea!! It's been said more than a million times here--and for good reason--that a menu-based market is the only solution to handle the volume of players in any MMO :(
Props for trying though, SE...
( note that i said menu-based market... not AH ... :3 ... ) -
06-28-2011, 05:01 AMAlexiaKidd
Glad there is a thread about this it has been driving me mad lately. I have a +3 Crab Bow for sale and I can't get a retainer in the Battleward so have to pay even more out on tax ><
These last few days I can't even summon my 2nd retainer in any of the wards to swap over items to my other one so i have to keep running to the bell in the Adv Guild and back to the wards.
I feel I have to price something at 999,999,999 just to make sure it doesn't sell so my retainer doesn't get removed from the wards and I wouldn't be able to put it back in.
You can say well go to Limsa or Grid well I tried that with my 2nd retainer and nothing sells and no it is not because it is priced to high, it is because everyone only uses Ul'dahs wards.
I really hope they get something sorted soon as this is getting ridiculous on my server. -
06-28-2011, 06:51 AMViridiana
Is Lindblum really getting that bad? I haven't tried to sell anything in a few weeks, though, even back then, Battlecraft was overflowing.
Still say the best solution is to stop rendering retainers and just go to a text interface. No, not an AH. A text interface. . . -
06-28-2011, 06:55 AMRentahamsterIf it is, I haven't noticed. I still manage to make a decent amount of gil.Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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06-28-2011, 08:13 AMFuzball
As a little note on how market ward caps may work-- I managed to get both (:D) of my retainers summoned in one of the wards yesterday by attempting to summon almost immediately after zoning in, but they happened to spawn in exactly the same spot... so, hoping that no one would be spamming to summon, I closed one of the retainers then tried to re-summon it-- no good. After a lot of tries, crying, rezoning, and sacrificing a chicken in front of the Ul'dah fountain, no good :(
What does this mean? It might suggest that the code managing the retainer cap probably references various things like server-load, available bandwidth, and obviously the amount of character models (retainers + players + NPC's) currently in the ward. Due to this, the cap can't be updated immediately--which is most likely why dismissing one of my retainers didn't allow me to summon another one.
Put simply, there isn't a definite number of max retainers, and the server simply sends you a yes or no as to whether you can summon one or not depending on the latest stats collected--otherwise, people who sit and spam the summon button would cause stress on the server by forcing it to grab a lot of fresh data each time you request to summon.
If anyone has some phenomenons to add to this thread, it'd be nice to start collecting events to get an idea of how we can approach working with the overcrowded markets for the time being--like things such as how often the retainer cap is adjusted or how often the server recounts the average amount of players + retainers in any given ward to do so...
As far as I can assume, either the cap was shrunk, the server accidentally said that I could summon both my retainers (getting a single one summoned is a huge challenge on selby), or someone took my un-summoned retainer's spot somewhere between my rezoning and chicken sacrifice :confused: -
07-03-2011, 12:35 AMGhostInfinity
Returning player here and giving FFXIV another try. I logged on after patching to set up retainers, get my affairs in order before I start exploring and such. Like many of the posters stated the wards are vastly overcrowded. I left in October and I'm really disappointed to see this horrible system still limping along. I'm actually scanning forums and trying to figure a way to sell my wares (other than selling to npc's for a huge loss) In my opinion this is just wrong. IMO this game will always struggle under this system.
SE, cut your losses, admit retainers/market wards were a bad idea, and give the players what they want. (not what you THINK they want) -
07-04-2011, 01:26 AMAngryNixon
Lindblum has really gotten that bad. I make money when I can put a retainer up sure, but lately I can't get that far. I managed to find the one empty spot in the Woodcutters Ward to list my retainer, who sells fish...
Their silly system is now working against me and I don't, practically speaking, have a choice but to wrongly list my retainers. I want to list things in the proper wards but the game leaves me no choice when it seems sometimes like all the wards are full.
So yes, something definitely needs done about the overcrowded wards. Don't care what it is but anything at this point would be nice. -
07-04-2011, 02:25 PMViridiana
Well, then I think you just took my normal spot in Woodcutters where I sell arrows. Not that I've played in a few weeks to mind, I guess.
Have I mentioned that I hate this "rendering retainers" thing lately? -
07-05-2011, 01:47 AMArasiel
I just recenly started back up. Loving the game. Decided to hold my Adventuring level around 15 until the Job patch hits. So started mining because I deleted my original character from launch for a fresh start. Decided to snag a Retainer set him up and start making some gil. Problem is every single ward was full except for one. So I have my Retainer selling Ores in some random ward be taxed.
What you need is multiple tiers of each ward. Like Mason Ward #1, Masons Ward #2, Masons Ward #3. When you search for lets say Copper Ore. You see hey someone is selling copper ore 499g a pop. Click Find.. Retainer: Jimbob - Mason Ward #3. Click Enter again. Warp to Mason Ward #3. The ward can take lets say 50 Retainers each. Once lets say Ward #3 fills. Ward #4 opens up. So on and so on. -
07-05-2011, 02:40 AMAngryNixonClearly fish are more important than arrows, especially in the Woodcutters Row...Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
I wonder if something like those internet chat programs that create overflow channels would work... That is to say as soon as a ward of a certain type is full, another one is created. That way you don't always have x amt of every ward for no reason. I'm guessing that 2 wards a piece might work, maybe really 1.5 wards to account for the overflow. And at times it may be that only one ward for a particularly unpopular category is needed. I can't imagine the Menders ward is really full of properly listed retainers. Also possibly the ward where coins are held is 90%+ overflow from other wards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasiel
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07-05-2011, 03:12 AMArasiel
@AngryNixon
Yeah when I describe what I think should be done it sounds simple but will they utilize it? Dunno.. There are more then one way to fix this. I don't think they will abolish this Ward system for a AH. Too much groundwork was laid and its salvagable with the new Search function. -
07-05-2011, 03:53 AMAngryNixonI agree. I don't think they'd ever get rid of it. I'm personally a fan of an AH system (Not necessarily as conceived in WoW or FFXI) but even then I wouldn't advocate scrapping the MW system. I'd just say put an AH system (at some point, definitely post 1.20) in along side the MW and leave the MW alone. Let it inevitably become unpopular and underused on its own.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arasiel
I also agree that what you and I describe seems superficially straightforward but I don't pretend to know what's involved or how complicated it might actually be. I can only say that at this point they've "fixed" retainers simply dropping out of the wards constantly but have, in doing so, opened the can of worms from the other end. This meaning simply that the net effect in terms of improvement is either jack, shit, or squat if you prefer. -
07-05-2011, 11:35 AMViridiana
The problem (as has been argued ad nauseum) is that all the wards are stored on one server that has to track everything. Splitting it into more wards won't help at all unless something is done about the stability of the server over-all. Not rendering the retainers and letting us buy from the search menu, though, would solve the stability and usability issues in one fell swoop.
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07-05-2011, 10:37 PMKasuTera
This is just so frustrating... no wards accepts any new retainers...
Sorry for not commenting on previous posts or proposing any new ideas, I just need to somehow express this frustration. -
07-06-2011, 12:39 PMFuzball
It is very upsetting :( If you can't sell things, you can't make gil... and if you can't make gil, the game seriously hits a brick wall unless you level every craft along with your main ;_;
The capacity problems on Selbina are beyond horrible, and seeing things like the image from the 6th post make it worthy of a random /fume :) -
07-12-2011, 01:05 AMCatchaFire420Isn't that the nature of our problem? Because of the hassle and congestion, the economy suffers. I'm with you its pointless to fight for a marketplace that punishes your efforts in every way you try. We shouldn't have to try, let me have the source code and I will set up a real market place named eCoerthas. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Viridiana
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07-12-2011, 04:36 AMNeko_YanagiI did read that thread and I agree is a good solution. However, I see that being a long term solution, setting something like that up may take some time. My solutions were short term, quick fixes. And more importantly in this thread, I'm pleading for a little social responsibility (a bit of a joke, I know, but I had to try). The wards may end up being over crowded no matter what we do, but I seriously think that we can minimize the severity of it if we could just take a few small steps to better the situation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roaran
That was EXACTLY the kind of thing I'm talking about. (To be honest, that may have been Gilseller/RMT retainers, but regular players do this kind of thing too). And also the fact that people leave retainers up with stuff in their bazaar's that's not for sale (just using bazaar as storage, with stuff for 999,999,999), or not checking their retainer's often to take them down if they are no longer selling anything is a big part of the problem too. These were very temporary solution that we could do RIGHT NOW, and that doesn't need anything from SE. It would lighten the severity of the situation, but definitively not resolve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by lun4tic
But I guess I may have been asking for too much, because since my post the wards have become even worse. Every ward is full. I think seeing the wards fill sent everyone into panic mode so they all make sure to leave retainers out whenever and wherever they can get an open spot.. So much for social responsibly.
Then there is the fact that not everyone checks the forums, not everyone will check this section, and there is no real way to get the majority of players to understand how they can help this situation. I must have been delusional to suggest a solution that required something from the players, because it looks as if that would never happen.
Sorry for the pessimism. And thanks to everyone who has chimed in and has given their 2 cents. -
07-12-2011, 12:08 PMFuzballYes!! I can't count how many times I've glared at my monitor and thought "10 lines SE, just give me 10 lines and it's fixed..."Quote:
Originally Posted by CatchaFire420