Hotfix date for next week 11/18?

Anyone know what day the hotfix Is suppose to be on?

If you're asking about the coil hotfix it will most likely be after most groups have gone through turns 1-4 for the week, making the change pointless for this coming week.

What are they fixing?

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Originally Posted by MilkyJoe

What are they fixing?

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They're rearranging the loot tables for the chests to make them more even

I'm just amazed that they didn't realise it was a bug until nearly 3 months after release... don't SE monitor drop rates in game?

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I'm just amazed that they didn't realise it was a bug until nearly 3 months after release... don't SE monitor drop rates in game?

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When your loot drops randomly it's kind of hard to catch that as a bug, much like how people report you "never" see the Gladiator Sword from any Primals? I bet people reported that as a bug too.

While it'd be very difficult for any particular group of people to see that loot drop was out of whack, SE is not just 'any particular group of people'. In fact, they can see everyone's loot drop and it'd be easy to see that there is indeed a problem in the total drop.

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I'm just amazed that they didn't realise it was a bug until nearly 3 months after release... don't SE monitor drop rates in game?

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Because people have been doing coil since day one release Right?

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Originally Posted by Crystallus

Because people have been doing coil since day one release Right?

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From 2nd week yes

What's your point

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Originally Posted by Whippet

From 2nd week yes

What's your point

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Originally Posted by Crystallus

Because people have been doing coil since day one release Right?

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So what's your point?

The last hotfix made the servers very unstable

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Originally Posted by Crystallus

So what's your point?

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Meaning that since the 2nd week this game has been out Square has been being fed droprate information on everything in the game barring Twintania. It took Square 2 months and public outcry to see that there was an issue with droprates in atleast turn 1 of the only raid ingame currently. Droprates are kind of a big deal when it comes to dealing with keeping people happy, when things seem obviously off balance it's a problem when it takes so long to fix the issue so things are how they should have been in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

If you're asking about the coil hotfix it will most likely be after most groups have gone through turns 1-4 for the week, making the change pointless for this coming week.

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Yes. Trying to find out so we can put off coils until the fix.

I find it really annoying that they're calling this a "hotfix" when they schedule it days in advance. That's called a maintenance, not a hotfix.

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Originally Posted by Crystallus

So what's your point?

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

Greetings,

Thanks for bringing up this concern. While the actual drop rates are a bit different compared to what was posted, we have indeed confirmed an issue that resulted in the items not being evenly distributed between the two chests and we will be addressing this in a hot fix next week.

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http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...20#post1558520

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Originally Posted by blowfin

I'm just amazed that they didn't realise it was a bug until nearly 3 months after release... don't SE monitor drop rates in game?

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Still not adding up to 3 months.

Drop rates being to low were reported the first day someone completed a run RIGHT?

Actually the dev response to the post linked above was on the 14th. So a fix in one week not 3 months.

So what's your point?

Let's say turn 1 is cleared 10 times per week on your server (this assumes your server is incredibly bad). I think there are like 20 servers, and in one month you'd have 20X4X10 = 800 loot drops. That's more than enough sample size to determine if something weird is going on with the loot drop. Sure, the players can't see what other guys are getting on their Coil runs, but SE sure can.

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Originally Posted by Crystallus

Still not adding up to 3 months.

Drop rates being to low were reported the first day someone completed a run RIGHT?

Actually the dev response to the post linked above was on the 14th. So a fix in one week not 3 months.

So what's your point?

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Except for the fact that turn 1 has been cleared for far more than a single week like your post suggests? The fix is taking a week, the droprates have been fed to Square for over 2 months now, they know when there is an issue and they should not need players to tell them that something is messed up with how drops are handled. Read my post farther up if you still believe that there isn't a "point" to what other people are saying.

Coming from a friend who works in a major game studio (not SE): "if you want to make good code, you test. Everything you write, you test. You literally have two machines side by side, one on which you code, the other on which you test, preferably in-engine (once the game's in alpha or more). And it's back and forth and back and forth all the time. And you also proof your code by simulating. To make sure you didn't screw up, you don't rely on re-reading, because that's arrogant; you simulate a thousand or more occurrences very fast to make sure it works. You make your own tools to proof your code, it's not hard to loop something basically. Sometimes I launch a sim before I go to sleep, and check the next morning if out of thousands of occurrences the code did what I want it to do. You can be the best coder in the world, you always make mistakes at some point. And that is how games get screwed up, because a lot of programmers just trust they're good and don't test their stuff all the time. You wouldn't imagine how many games just don't get the maths right. It has to be right, and then only can you fine tune so that it feels right, for the player. And the first player, that's you. If you don't QA your own code, it's bound to be shitty more often that not."

Simply put, for something so trivial as generating a chest from a loot table, you'd run a sim of that piece code, just to see if out of a thousand or more occurrences, you get the expected stats. If we can't trust something so simple, how can we trust all the stats for combat and crafting skills? Is +10% really it, or is it -5% in reality?

And these kinds of things aren't easy to spot afterwards, by a QA team or even thousands of players (PTS wouldn't help much on this), because each and everyone of us only get a fraction of the occurrences, we simply don't have enough data (unless we do QA's work and actually note everything) to conclude if something's wrong. Our vision is biased, for lack of enough samples, unlike the vision of the guy who makes the code in the first place.

Anecdotical: I did a a bit of gathering (mining lv30+). Out of a few thousand ores, I had the distinct perception that I was failing way too often; but I can't tell because I didn't count the nodes. However I could easily compare NQ and HQ and I don't know if I'm that lucky but I can tell you that, mathematically, I got way too many HQ. I usually farm ~600 NQ ores when I do a gathering session, and I never failed to obtain ~30% HQ give or take 5%, when the game says that I have (at most) a base 15% chance, boosted to 25% when I use the skill on ⅓ or ¼ of the nodes, or 20% with the passive stat boost on ⅓ or ¼ of the nodes. Doesn't seem right to me that I end up with 30%.

Just look at this (pertains to this thread's topic), and that. I'd wager we'll find more if we start heavily theorycrafting this game.

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Originally Posted by Vantwan

I find it really annoying that they're calling this a "hotfix" when they schedule it days in advance. That's called a maintenance, not a hotfix.

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The changes that will be applied , are not calles maintenances but hotfixes , scheduled or not.

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Still not adding up to 3 months.

Drop rates being to low were reported the first day someone completed a run RIGHT?

Actually the dev response to the post linked above was on the 14th. So a fix in one week not 3 months.

So what's your point?

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My point is they've had nearly 3 months of hard data from from coil to show them that the drop rates were wrong in turn 1. If not three months, then there's been at least 2 months when people have been trivially clearing it.

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Originally Posted by Vantwan

I find it really annoying that they're calling this a "hotfix" when they schedule it days in advance. That's called a maintenance, not a hotfix.

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an hotfix is something that will change both current working code and development code since it was unexpected.

Maybe they did it intentionally to artificially slow down people getting loot!

While it's true they could have ran this code in sim during development, it's obvious they didn't which is their mistake. Now catching it since the game went live is another story. While the data would certainly be there for at least a few hundred Turn 1 attempts, they don't exactly have someone sitting there dedicated to watching the game's drop rates...that's a bit silly. Especially considering everything else they've had to deal with.

Since drop rates are ALWAYS complained about even when they're working it's hardly something the devs are going to jump all over, especially when it's the drops from a pair of chests very few people were getting until a month or so into the game's release. Keep in mind as well that the RNG is actually working fine it was the distribution that was off and not everyone was saying which chests their loot was coming from so the statistics may have been sound for the loot as a whole, making the issue harder to confirm. It may have taken one person claiming a piece of loot fell from one chest that the devs knew was supposed to fall from the other to really get the ball rolling.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...3e7ac1fe192bf5

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Originally Posted by blowfin

My point is they've had nearly 3 months of hard data from from coil to show them that the drop rates were wrong in turn 1. If not three months, then there's been at least 2 months when people have been trivially clearing it.

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Then SE acted on it when people finally decided to report it and they investigated since you know, Coil has had some issues (Turn 5) before - Still don't understand that concept? SE tells you to report things so they can investigate it, it wasn't until recently did people start bringing up this situation which in-game made a lot of people go: "Huh I did actually noticed a lot of x rather than y everytime we did turn 1, I thought it was just RNG."

When something is random you can't always assume something is bugged just because you're not getting what you wanted for example - I could say the primal drops are bugged as all I ever see every time I do a primal is a WHM weapon or Lance, yet I bet someone will say they almost never see those.

I read the title as hot date for next week

Damn, i am desperate

good thing that I will start coil this sunday! :D

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Then SE acted on it when people finally decided to report it and they investigated since you know, Coil has had some issues (Turn 5) before - Still don't understand that concept? SE tells you to report things so they can investigate it, it wasn't until recently did people start bringing up this situation which in-game made a lot of people go: "Huh I did actually noticed a lot of x rather than y everytime we did turn 1, I thought it was just RNG."

When something is random you can't always assume something is bugged just because you're not getting what you wanted for example - I could say the primal drops are bugged as all I ever see every time I do a primal is a WHM weapon or Lance, yet I bet someone will say they almost never see those.

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That's right *you* can't assume RNG is broken, but if SE is not logging, and reporting on end game drops and rates this game is doomed. That is such a fundamental feature to any MMO back end, and in the same vein as needing to monitor the global economy for gil in/out, market flow, etc.

SE should not be acting on a bad loot table because people are reporting it, specially not for a loot table that is locked out once a week and is one of the only few real end game drops. They should have been a lot more proactive on this. T1 has been getting cleared since the 2nd week of this game, across all servers, and that rate has only ramped up since then.

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Originally Posted by Vantwan

I find it really annoying that they're calling this a "hotfix" when they schedule it days in advance. That's called a maintenance, not a hotfix.

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Actually, a hotfix has nothing to do with scheduling. The term hotfix means to update in-production. Which means, in order to do a hotfix, something must be patched while the server is online, no reboot required, no downtime required. If downtime is required, then it is not a hotfix, by definition of the term.

Not trying to be a prick, just trying to clarify terminology which is commonly misused.

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Originally Posted by permbanned

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...3e7ac1fe192bf5

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Is this the hotfix that will be fixing it? As usual SE's post is as vague as possible ; ;

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Originally Posted by Sinth

Actually, a hotfix has nothing to do with scheduling. The term hotfix means to update in-production. Which means, in order to do a hotfix, something must be patched while the server is online, no reboot required, no downtime required. If downtime is required, then it is not a hotfix, by definition of the term.

Not trying to be a prick, just trying to clarify terminology which is commonly misused.

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Also referred to on the server end as a "Rolling Upgrade".

Good catch!

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Is this the hotfix that will be fixing it? As usual SE's post is as vague as possible ; ;

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I was just about to ask that myself! Too bad it said "Details of the fixes will be posted seperately."

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Originally Posted by JeTaisNoobie

I was just about to ask that myself! Too bad it said "Details of the fixes will be posted seperately."

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Oh haha, well..that is a start! :D

My team is postponing our Coil to tomorrow in case this hotfix covers the loot fix.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

Actually, a hotfix has nothing to do with scheduling. The term hotfix means to update in-production. Which means, in order to do a hotfix, something must be patched while the server is online, no reboot required, no downtime required. If downtime is required, then it is not a hotfix, by definition of the term.

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They're still calling things hotfixes that aren't hotfixes. The last "hotfix" took the servers down as well. xD

While technically hotfix doesn't say anything about when it'll be done, you'd think if you got something that fixes a problem that doesn't require taking the server down, the best time to put that fix would be yesterday. The only concern might be if you haven't tested it enough yet, but if you haven't gone through adequate testing then you really can't say you've fixed the problem to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Is this the hotfix that will be fixing it? As usual SE's post is as vague as possible ; ;

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address issues as well as make some adjustments

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I think it's a safe bet that, yes, this is the hotfix. It's not often at all that we get a patch alongside maintenance and we knew this was coming. I'm really thankful it's so early in the week. My group was planning on holding off on coil for the week until it was done.

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Originally Posted by Luso

My team is postponing our Coil to tomorrow in case this hotfix covers the loot fix.

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Yup My group is doing the same don't think we need anymore drops from the broken chest......