Let's talk about regen :)

I love HoT's (heal over time).

Almost every healer in an MMO has a regen skill, regen is handy, insta cast, just good, period.

However I noticed something in FFxiv....

When you cast regen on a tank and after the battle regen hasn't worn off yet (21 sec buff) the next set of mobs he pulls go straight after the healer!

If you cast regen while mobs are being pulled then sure, getting unwanted aggro is your own fault.
But if a tank runs into mobs with 3 sec regen left they'll go straight to the healer and that's something that should be changed imo.

thoughts?

Regen will draw aggro to the healer on the first tick after pull. Tanks should cancel regens when going to pull, and mages should avoid casting regen toward the end of a pull.

In general, regen is wonderful considering the instant cast. It's good for throwing on dps party members and great for countering DoTs (like the evil, terrible, annoying AV poison). However, it does cost a bit of MP to cast, so it should only be used when it will be used to its full potential (all ticks healing without health being maxed out).

I typically use the stoneskin+regen tactic in most normal circumstances at the beginning of a pull. It gives a buffer to throw up some DoTs on the mobs if you so choose, or you can stand around waiting for your mp to refill.

EDIT: Another situation where regen is very helpful is in fights where you have to be moving constantly, therefore making casting difficult, such as the ogre boss in Dzemael Darkhold. Regen saves lives!

yeh it's such a great skill, in any MMO.
Never had mana issues with it actually.

But tanks shouldn't have to cancel regen while pulling, that's the problem with regen in FFxiv x.x

Each tick is pretty much another heal, so yeah you're pulling another piece of aggro every 2 seconds or so. I find a lot of people who talk comparisons between SCH and WHM never equate Regen into them; Regen is half of my Cure I (and over time is 1080 potency) for only 50% or so more mana than Cure I.
Theory wise it's amazing, practicality wise it depends. I've found regen amazing in pretty much every scenario but one thing I'll disagree to is that I won't use it on a DPS who just got hit because it still activates the GCD and will cost more mana than Cure I (Which in my experience is enough to heal the person to full anyway). Since it activates the GCD, Cure or Regen both will take the same amount of time.

I'm one for HoT's myself most definitely, but Regen I find for tanks is just a plain life saver. When things go sour I Cure II > Regen and just like that we're going through that sour spot with moderate ease.

Most people don't know you can cancel the Regen buff off yourself so when it comes to speed runs and such I only make it a habit to Regen on the initial pull; Stoneskin them, Cure II, Regen and Cure I all the way and by the time we're done the mob regen is off.

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Originally Posted by CalvatE

... one thing I'll disagree to is that I won't use it on a DPS who just got hit because it still activates the GCD and will cost more mana than Cure I (Which in my experience is enough to heal the person to full anyway). Since it activates the GCD, Cure or Regen both will take the same amount of time.

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It's definitely situational, I wouldn't (and don't) use that as the norm, but if they get hit by an AoE and take spike damage and you don't expect them to get hit again soon, I find it to be more efficient MP-wise.

Usually it isnt hard to predict how long to fight gonna last but when ppl doing AOE rotation.

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Originally Posted by CalvatE

Each tick is pretty much another heal, so yeah you're pulling another piece of aggro every 2 seconds or so

Most people don't know you can cancel the Regen buff off yourself

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And that's a problem imo.
I've always played healers, even in a crappy old f2p mmo such as Fiesta, Regen did not pull aggro unless it was cast during a pull.
HoTs have always been my fav and I try to keep it on tanks especially when they're starting a pull, it's a habit and I'm sure I'm not the only one with a love for HoTs.

Asking tanks to take it off every run would get old x.x

I find myself using it a bit to much. Rarely have mp problems with it. If I accidentally use at the end of pulls, I usually run to the tank so he can easily pull them off. Sometime they get pulled back before coming anywhere near. I've run into some really great tanks lately. Lucky me~!

As a tank, my purely anecdotal observation is that Regen is a useful tool in boss fights and lazy crutch in normal (non-speed run) dungeon runs. I can regen tank juuuust about anything except for those hound lights in AK that kind of sting, and I'm not uber geared. Likewise, I've run with WHM that just toss me a cure now and then instead, and don't have to deal with it.

It's not that hard to cancel but I've been guilty of it, and it screws up the agro management of the whole pull really.

This is a classic healer killer move when he's got a HoT up before the tank pulls. It has been this way in every MMO. There's a few things you can't do as a healer, and one of those is pre HoT'ing.
Whether you mean to or not, you need to let the tank know (as some players either might not realize it is active, or they don't realize the dangers of it) that your HoT is still up.
However, in some games, such as FFXIV. The player can cancel their active buffs. So just communicate with your tank, and have him cancel the regen before he pulls.
My MT for my FC already knows the drill. Any new tanks I just simply say, "cancel regen before pulls please" and it seems to work fine.

I loved regen, I mean really really really loved regen. In FFXI I used it always as it helped with MP consumption and kept my emnity low from not having to cast as many Cures.

Now in FFXIV, I hate regen, really really really hate regen.

Hope they tweak it to make it better.

It did agro in those other games to, the difference is in FF14 the heal agro is the same even when overhealing. Normally healer agro is only from actual HP healed. Its easy enough to time though, when the fights close to over switch to cure's only then try to time a stoneskin to hit the moment the last mob dies (a sliver of missing health will quickly regen out of battle).

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Originally Posted by crystalfire808

It's definitely situational, I wouldn't (and don't) use that as the norm, but if they get hit by an AoE and take spike damage and you don't expect them to get hit again soon, I find it to be more efficient MP-wise.

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I tend to only use it when people begin to get hurt for more than I cure I them for. When I throw a Regen on someone for say, AK, I often find that they get hurt faster than the regen does them for, but if I just keep using Cure I, I keep up with it fine.

I love Regen...but it is true, I choose my momments.....it is perfect for sticking on the DPS when they are looking bad and I have not got time to leave my tank.
Oh, and of course, on myself, when soloing...don't think I've cast cure on myself in a very, very long time.... :)

I don't see this as a problem. Know when and when not to cast the spell, just slapping it on for giggles can be lazy, and thus cause you to get some unwelcome attention.

It's not regen specific. Overhealing in this game causes enmity, which is different from a certain other game I can name. The SCH heal will do the same thing. It's certainly annoying to pull hate because you cast it late in another pull and the tank didn't click it off, but if it DIDN'T cause enmity, you'd be able to cheat the aggro system by casting it right before the pull and getting more than a cure 2 worth of healing for essentially free. We have that already; it's called Stoneskin.

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Originally Posted by Fort

It has been this way in every MMO. There's a few things you can't do as a healer, and one of those is pre HoT'ing.

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Really? I lol'd.

Only time it is worth casting Regen in dungeons is during WP speedruns, other than that you can get away with not using it on trash.

Regen is fantastic. Especially so with divine seal.
Doing AK? Throw that on the tank just after a pull and switch to DPS mode.

If you really have a hard time dealing with it maybe you're the problem, not the skill itself.

I've ran with a variety of Healing styles as a tank. For the most part I try and click off Regen before a pull.
I've had parties where the WHM never uses Regen and I've had parties where the WHM thought Regen was hot shit and used it like it's going out of style.

Like was mentioned before, the best use is on larger pulls after I flash once or twice and then leave it be, don't recast it. It gets annoying when the WHM casts regen at the beginning of the pull and then again when the last mob has like 2% health left.

>SS tank
>tank pulls
>start recasting SS
>divine seal-regen
>dps

thats pretty much every trash pack

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Originally Posted by sheepysheepy

>SS tank
>tank pulls
>start recasting SS
>divine seal-regen
>dps

thats pretty much every trash pack

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If you have Swiftcast you can even use it for the second SS so you can start DPSing faster, or save it for a instant cast Holy

I noticed that Regen really ends up becoming a huge pain in Turn 1. When the split happens, if anyone has regen on them that means the clone makes a beeline for the whm. Our whm now just takes it off his bar during that fight to make sure he doesn't get aggro at the split. lol

Regen is so great that I have it keybound to 1. It actually makes me a little sad that I have to hold back on it in end game dungeons and only use it at the very start of a fight or not at all.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

I noticed that Regen really ends up becoming a huge pain in Turn 1. When the split happens, if anyone has regen on them that means the clone makes a beeline for the whm. Our whm now just takes it off his bar during that fight to make sure he doesn't get aggro at the split. lol

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If u dont use it in turn 1, just mean u have to burst out more cure II to patch up the healing lost and lower the DPS from brd because they need to use MP song for u more often.
It's a skill that all tank has to master than just simply try to limit ability from healer. If a tank cant catch aggro from regen then he is surely not ready for turn 4 even he's lucky enough to finish turn 1.

I don't cast regen when there is only one mob left in trash pulls. However, to call a regen a "crutch" is just not understand what it is. On a tank, who well get a benefit from pretty much every tick, it is the most mana-efficient spell we have (and can help us through out some DPS stuff too). I actually had a DF tank once (lvl 50) cancel regen right after I cast it, even at the start of a fight. Finally I told him if he did that again, I would let him die. Never once would regen have been on him at a pull.

As a tank, I think instead of casting regen at the end of a previous fight, it might be better to cast it as the first spell at the start of the next fight, after the initial pull. The actual casting and initial discharge of regen causes very little hate, and a tank can take quite a few hits initially without having to be cured. This gives him time to gain hate before you go super healer, and lets regen work during the battle phase instead of just as a mop up of battle leftovers.

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Originally Posted by Allyra

I noticed that Regen really ends up becoming a huge pain in Turn 1. When the split happens, if anyone has regen on them that means the clone makes a beeline for the whm. Our whm now just takes it off his bar during that fight to make sure he doesn't get aggro at the split. lol

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Just means the off-tank is bad. He should have a combo'ed Butcher's Block/Halone ready instantly grab aggro the second it spawns.