Spectacle Creep

Well, I now I may get flamed just by watching Extra Credits, but I think this video has the idea of why so many veterans from FFXI and XIV 1.0 think ARR is not cut to their tastes (me included of course).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wSd70TSaajk#t=288

I feel ARR starts with really high stakes on the spectacle aspect, with the fist trailer being Bahamut destroying the world (well, a continent, but the whole world perceived by the player), and during the main story we have Ultima magic and the Ultima weapon. Also the story somehow is told portraying that our character defeated the primals all alone and well, single handedly stopped the Garlean invasion.That in terms of the story.

In terms of gameplay everything is bright, the combat is just big explosions and fireworks since level one and the gear looks more interesting in the lower levels than in the higher levels.

I fear for what the future may bring in terms of spectacle creep, because the baseline is set way too high, and it's one of the reasons I liked 1.0 way way more. Everything was more toned down, you were just a adventurer which helped to solve the problems of a nation because you joined as part of a military organization, and along with you lots of adventurers more, the combat was slower, more believable and realistic where only a few high level attacks were visual fireworks.

I'm not worried about Spectacle Creep coming from the Square Enix guys. They do a fair job of making adventures feel like adventures. I mean how my times, and in how many different, yet still exciting ways, do the adventurers from Vana'Diel get to save the world? Even if ARR starts on a higher tempo, it seems to keep things fairly regular throughout, ups and downs, with a suitable climax.

A lot of your observations are rather subjective as well. Especially about low level vs High Level gear.

I love Extra Credits, but you didn't really comprehend what they were saying to you, from my observation of your reaction here. IMO, you're using outside references to justify your personal critique of the changes ARR went under.

FFXIV will likely operate in sine waves like its predecessor with ups and downs when it comes to Spectacle Creep. Heck, they did a very good example of how they'd make this function with the Titan Arc.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

I'm not worried about Spectacle Creep coming from the Square Enix guys. They do a fair job of making adventures feel like adventures. I mean how my times, and in how many different, yet still exciting ways, do the adventurers from Vana'Diel get to save the world? Even if ARR starts on a higher tempo, it seems to keep things fairly regular throughout, ups and downs, with a suitable climax.

A lot of your observations are rather subjective as well. Especially about low level vs High Level gear.

I love Extra Credits, but you didn't really comprehend what they were saying to you, from my observation of your reaction here. IMO, you're using outside references to justify your personal critique of the changes ARR went under.

FFXIV will likely operate in sine waves like its predecessor with ups and downs when it comes to Spectacle Creep. Heck, they did a very good example of how they'd make this function with the Titan Arc.

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I hope hey work in sine waves, but not the way they have already done in ARR with long quest chains of... uh... being a delivery boy 90% of the time. I won't ever make an alt character so I don't have to redo the Coerthas main story part.

Also, how are you so pretentious to say that I didn't comprehend what EC said in that episode? Just because it doesn't fit the way you see it, it doesn't mean I did not understand what they say. And yes, I did the thread because I thought it was a great way to express how I feel about some changes I didn't like, and my fear that those changes will get (more) over the top in my taste.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

I hope hey work in sine waves, but not the way they have already done in ARR with long quest chains of... uh... being a delivery boy 90% of the time. I won't ever make an alt character so I don't have to redo the Coerthas main story part.

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You argue spectacle creep about things being over the top, yet complain about the lack of such spectacle in the story itself, this is why I cite you misunderstanding the episode. Your demeanor and context of your complaints display it.


I can argue the sine waves exist in the current plot, starting on the high note of the explanation of the Calimity (high), to your introduction as an adventurer (low), to your first instanced story encounter and the relation of your purpose (high), back to trailing and miss-trailing of the masked man (low). The arcs then begin to broaden the length of time between high and low points in the story itself.

And on the same token, you're trying to argue that the game is a spectacle creep from 1.0 in the flashiness of the mechanics, yet cite how the beginning armor is more flashy than the later level armor, which would indicate the OPPOSITE of a spectacle creep. (If it were true creep, the later level armor would be superior in creep than the earlier, as there is armor of high level that is newer.)

Either you're having a bad time explaining where you get your idea of spectacle creep from within the game, or you've not understood spectacle creep and how it applies or does not apply to the game.

You're going to need to narrow your fears down to a particular aspect at time cause at this point, your argument is disjointed.

In terms of particle effects, the game is higher at a base than 1.0, but maintains it being consistent throughout the whole of the game, rather than creep it up through the levels and patches. Subsequent patches from Beta have actually toned down the particle effects and monster reactions. They have even given the players the option to further do so in config menu.

It just seems to be that you're reaching for a reason to be critical of the game's changes from 1.0, found a video you found your interpretation of it to fill your need for confirmation bias, and posted it before pausing to consider "does this really apply to my statement?"

So far your reactions have not dissuaded this opinion.

Therefore I have little reservation than to open a canned reply: ARR is not 1.0. They should be regarded as different games at this point, reused assets or otherwise. In which case, the basis from spectacle creep needs to begin at the starting point of this game client, which, as you professed, starts higher than is comfortable with you.

And if we are to compare this game with previous games, including the 1.0 client, we must also look past the MMO market and back to it's Final Fantasy Roots. In which case FFXI And XIV 1.0 are actually quite a dip compared to the creep imposed by its single player counterparts, and ARR comparatively is still a bit behind the creep level imposed by say XII and XIII.

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

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After reading your post I feel I won't make my point across so I'm not going to bother to try.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

After reading your post I feel I won't make my point across so I'm not going to bother to try.

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You learn that very quickly about Hyrist when you mention FFXI or FFXIV 1x.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

and the gear looks more interesting in the lower levels than in the higher levels

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...wat
/10char

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

You learn that very quickly about Hyrist when you mention FFXI or FFXIV 1x.

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Funny as I enjoyed both thoroughly, and enjoy speaking about them more.

The difference is, I don't hold back punches when it comes to my criticism of FFXI.

I am surprised, however, you think I look at 1.xx poorly.

Nice of you to make presumptions of me personally. As well as him, given his argument was more on the subject of spectacle creep itself. Please refrain from further personal attacks.

Its not about spectacle really. I mean ff as a series has always been about saving the world so having an adventurer as a world-saving hero is nothing out of the ordinary for the series. Even in xi we saved the world on multiple occasions.

What sticks is that they made saving the world virtually effortless. The game has a good story, plot, etc etc and adding the fetch quests in the main scenario, while admittedly annoying in some cases (see the wineport series of missions), added a lil more reality to it than most. The only real issue, like I said, is that you could breeze so easily through. I mean if saving the world was really that easy, how come there are still garleans around at all?

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Originally Posted by AnimaAnimus

Its not about spectacle really. I mean ff as a series has always been about saving the world so having an adventurer as a world-saving hero is nothing out of the ordinary for the series. Even in xi we saved the world on multiple occasions.

What sticks is that they made saving the world virtually effortless. The game has a good story, plot, etc etc and adding the fetch quests in the main scenario, while admittedly annoying in some cases (see the wineport series of missions), added a lil more reality to it than most. The only real issue, like I said, is that you could breeze so easily through. I mean if saving the world was really that easy, how come there are still garleans around at all?

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Plenty of lore reasons why its not.

Primals were of a primary, and more threatening concern, and the leading organization in international affairs was busy dealing with them.

Nations have spent the last five years trying to reconstruct what was lost in the Calamity.

Then there are all the spoilerific reasons involving crystals, the tempered, and why the player is such a bloody exception to all Eorzeas norms (like most citizens cannot use the Aetherite network and stay in good health.)

As far as combat difficulty. I donno. Every day I see both sides of the skill curve go at it and I can see why the game would seem easy for some, yet difficult for others. I don't think the game difficulty should be reflective on the story, however.

We're just that good. :3

Personally, I feel the way they've handled dungeons has an impact on people's perceptions in the story. While they do have a somewhat epic feel, by following the same instanced dungeon design as any other typical MMO they don't have the same impact. For example the typical route of killing trash, killing trash, killing more trash... boss fight! Trash, trash, trash, final boss! It's too linear which makes it seem easy.

I'll use XI as an example for how it was done right, firstly because it was part of the FF universe and secondly because it actually is a good example to use. In XI the only instanced "dungeons" were boss fights, in which you got there by navigating open areas which were very much like mazes. It took a lot of trial and error and actual adventuring to get to these instances. These "dungeons" were typically harder than most boss fights in XIV as well and required a lot more preparation, however that's because there was more to prepare in that game (items to use on bosses etc).

I also think a lot of the problem is because they haven't had a chance to really open up the story yet and this was just the building blocks (think nation story missions in XI). They started the game in the middle of the story due to XIV 1.0 and needed to entice players with a grandiose opening because otherwise not many would give it that second chance.

They then filled the story with filler so they could finish the basic building blocks of the game and work on future content. Let's not forget that we haven't actually got to the point of facing Bahamut himself yet, so they still have room to improve and I don't doubt that they will, but I also think they lose a lot by following the typical MMO model in order to please a certain type of player.

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Originally Posted by Dannythm

FF14. Spectacle Creep.

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I have always preferred JRPGs over Western RPGs. If I want an RPG with less spectacle I'll play pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons 3.5




...you DO realize this is a JRPG, right?