Ideas to balance leveling and endgame

My friend and I were discussing FATE, and how they give ridiculous amounts of exp (don't stop reading lol). From that, the conversation moved into the general balance of progression. At this point, the game is a breeze to 50 (literally 2 days with FATE) and then a ceaseless grind to gear up at endgame. We were discussing ways to change this and we came up with this, tell me what you think:

- Adjust exp gain on all forms of leveling to match dungeons (FATE, guildhests, Leves, Hunting log etc.)
- Raise mythos cap to 400 - 500 per week

I know it sounds simple, maybe too simple and I'm sure you'll all let me know if I'm overlooking something. My reasoning is that every subscription based mmo NEEDS a time sync in order to keep their subs. The problem is that currently, the time sync is unbalanced as it is all in endgame (with the 300 mythos cap per week). This, in turn leads to complaining about both (FATE leveling is too fast - endgame is too much of a grind etc). to me the solution sounds simple, create a balance with that time sync, spread it out so neither leveling nor endgame gets boring too fast.

Using what I have suggested above would mean that leveling isn't a blur, it's instead a fast progression through levels while learning the intricacies of your chosen job, and endgame isn't a long, relentless grind. What are your thoughts?

They are fixing exp gain in 2.1 and will add plenty of extra time syncs.

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Originally Posted by EzriNuru

They are fixing exp gain in 2.1 and will add plenty of extra time syncs.

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As far as I know, they're only increasing xp in dungeons which in turn does nothing to balance the overall character progression. It's still a breeze to level, and a grind to gear up at endgame

They are increasing combat class leve exp as well. Also in 2.1 they will be adding many new ways to obtain tomestones which include three new dungeons, extreme primals, beastmen dailys, and treasure hunts to name some of the confirmed things.

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Originally Posted by EzriNuru

They are increasing combat class leve exp as well. Also in 2.1 they will be adding many new ways to obtain tomestones which include three new dungeons, extreme primals, beastmen dailys, and treasure hunts to name some of the confirmed things.

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With all due respect you're not understanding my post. They're not doing anything to slow down FATE and they're not raising the mythos cap. Leveling - endgame will remain unbalanced.

It's a breeze but also the most boring and most dull part of the game. In theory you can get to 50 in 2 days, but I would kill mysefl after just 1 day.

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Originally Posted by Budi

It's a breeze but also the most boring and most dull part of the game. In theory you can get to 50 in 2 days, but I would kill mysefl after just 1 day.

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Precisely! But people will always "take the path of least resistance" and simply FATE grind. In my opinion, it subtracts from what should be a fun part of the experience (getting to 50). Why not make leveling just a bit slower by nerfing FATE and making endgame a little faster by raising the mythos cap?

I apologize for any confusion, I just wanted to let you know what changes are confirmed in 2.1 at this time. If SE plans to nerf fates or increase mythos cap then they have done a good job of hiding it. Most Dev posts regarding the subject talk about how increasing dungeon exp and leve exp while also adding in many new ways to obtain tomestones is the way they plan to handle exactly the issue you are bringing up.

Aside from FATE exp the single biggest problem is lack of things to do to farm your tomes. I've done WP so many times my eyes are bleeding, I need 20 runs to get any single piece of crafted gear now.

The easiest thing they could do is introduce hard mode versions of lower level dungeons that give tomes, or also make queuing for a lower level dungeon give tomes to a level 50 - maybe 60-75 philos. It'd give us a nice break from two dungeons none of us want to see anymore, and help the lower levels get queues.

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Originally Posted by peaches

Aside from FATE exp the single biggest problem is lack of things to do to farm your tomes. I've done WP so many times my eyes are bleeding, I need 20 runs to get any single piece of crafted gear now.

The easiest thing they could do is introduce hard mode versions of lower level dungeons that give tomes, or also make queuing for a lower level dungeon give tomes to a level 50 - maybe 60-75 philos. It'd give us a nice break from two dungeons none of us want to see anymore, and help the lower levels get queues.

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You have literally quoted word for word the changes that are coming in 2.1! :)

Part of the problem is that leveling from 1 to 50 is quick, and easy, to the point that you need not worry about equipment. So much in fact that knowing this, you will not bother worrying about equipment until level 50.

At level 50, there is not much else to worry about BUT equipment (the only thing left to enhance). In other words:

1 -> 50: Only concern is XP
50 : Only concern is equipment

And this is where the balance issue comes. With only a 'single' thing to really focus on, you do end up focusing only on that. If it were diversified more:
1 -> 50: XP + Equipment (can only go from 30 - 35 with good equipment, 35 - 40 with better, and so on).
50: Equipment + Story Unlocks? + Something?

This would encourage us to vary our time on different tasks: Today I will level, or get some better equipment, or work on some story, or 'something'.

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Originally Posted by peaches

Aside from FATE exp the single biggest problem is lack of things to do to farm your tomes. I've done WP so many times my eyes are bleeding, I need 20 runs to get any single piece of crafted gear now.

The easiest thing they could do is introduce hard mode versions of lower level dungeons that give tomes, or also make queuing for a lower level dungeon give tomes to a level 50 - maybe 60-75 philos. It'd give us a nice break from two dungeons none of us want to see anymore, and help the lower levels get queues.

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Agreed, but don't you see how these changes are just unbalancing the game further? As long as FATE remains insanely lucrative for leveling, making it easier to gain tomes is just relieving the endgame time sync without addressing the rate at which one levels through FATE. This means Instead of <SUPER FAST TO 50 - SUPER SLOW ENDGAME>, we get <SUPER FAST TO 50 - FAST ENDGAME>.

There will always be a time sync or SE risks losing their playerbase for lack of things to do. There is no time sync to speak of while leveling so alleviating the grind at endgame won't do a thing to balance the game unless they make leveling a bit longer. Am I making any sense?

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Part of the problem is that leveling from 1 to 50 is quick, and easy, to the point that you need not worry about equipment. So much in fact that knowing this, you will not bother worrying about equipment until level 50.

At level 50, there is not much else to worry about BUT equipment (the only thing left to enhance). In other words:

1 -> 50: Only concern is XP
50 : Only concern is equipment

And this is where the balance issue comes. With only a 'single' thing to really focus on, you do end up focusing only on that. If it were diversified more:
1 -> 50: XP + Equipment (can only go from 30 - 35 with good equipment, 35 - 40 with better, and so on).
50: Equipment + Story Unlocks? + Something?

This would encourage us to vary our time on different tasks: Today I will level, or get some better equipment, or work on some story, or 'something'.

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This is good stuff ^^. So true

the lvl in this game is there only to be there. The reason for the game to be this way had been said by Yoshi way back then, he want player to be able to join endgame and do the fun stuff rather than spend months in lvling.

Quit being a whiny scrub.
Dungeons will have increased experience in 2.1

they must add daily quests..
atm nothing to do when u capped myth tomes...

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Originally Posted by ChronoCross

Quit being a whiny scrub.
Dungeons will have increased experience in 2.1

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Sorry, but you just don't get what I'm talking about. A dungeon exp boost will only serve to unbalance the game further, FATEs need to be brought down to the level of dungeons, not the other way around - that's just my opinion.

i kind of have to agree with you... i think it is too easy to get to level 50 (especially in a fighting class)... they said when announcing this game etc that they're predicting about 10 years worth of play... hmmmm i see 10 months worth of play at the moment...

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Originally Posted by Asiaine

Part of the problem is that leveling from 1 to 50 is quick, and easy, to the point that you need not worry about equipment. So much in fact that knowing this, you will not bother worrying about equipment until level 50.

At level 50, there is not much else to worry about BUT equipment (the only thing left to enhance). In other words:

1 -> 50: Only concern is XP
50 : Only concern is equipment

And this is where the balance issue comes. With only a 'single' thing to really focus on, you do end up focusing only on that. If it were diversified more:
1 -> 50: XP + Equipment (can only go from 30 - 35 with good equipment, 35 - 40 with better, and so on).
50: Equipment + Story Unlocks? + Something?

This would encourage us to vary our time on different tasks: Today I will level, or get some better equipment, or work on some story, or 'something'.

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I can agree with you, but not the OP.
They should look for better balancing in developing future content. Extending levelling now is not going to change anything at this point though.
Unless they make huge nerfs on XP (which they really can't do without major backlash), everyone will have all the 50's they want in a few months.
There's no reason to balance that anymore. Once you reach endgame with a class, there's no going back until you level another class.


Recycling dungeons in end game is a good idea. It won't make end game fast, just more varied (especially if you get lesser tomes).
At this point, levelling is in the past for most players. Artificially extending it with nerfs is just going to make things feel worse (because most of us have done it a few times now).

Housing and that stuff in 2.1 is meant to be a new type of time-sink, for everyday living sort of stuff. That may give players a lot more to do.
There'll also be treasure hunts and daily quests.
It's the right choice to develop level 50 stuff since that's where most of us are.
They can balance leveling more when they raise the level cap

Also, levelling some classes for cross class skills is painful when you don't like the class. I'm not complaining about it (I've done all mine anyway), because I understand the design. I just wouldn't wish to make it harder for anyone that comes after,

I hate how much exp FATEs gives and how boring they are but that seems to be their intention; they want people to level fast for the sake of "casual" players. Unfortunately, for people who hate such things, they either have to get with the program or fall behind everyone else.

I don't think adding new dungeons will do much; in the end, most players will choose one dungeon and one dungeon only to grind: the fastest and most efficient dungeon. And then they will complain about how grinding said dungeon is boring is tedious.

Lastly, raising the myth cap is a horrible idea until they add a bunch of new higher contents.