"Don't tell me how to do my job"

Just a public service announcement for the tanks out there.

Yes, your job is important, it's difficult and often stressful. It doesn't make you "better" than the other members of your party however, you are one cog in the machine. Bare in mind that those "filthy DPS" you talk down to, very likely play other classes, possibly even tanks; and may have more experience than you. (Believe it or not, playing a DPS class to it's fullest potential is actually just as difficult as tanking or healing!)

After wiping twice on the final stalker section of Wanderer's palace because you tried tank the mobs halfway down the hall where the stalker's going to shank you, it's maybe time you start listening to your "stupid DPS". Deliberately letting people die because a "filthy dragoon" dared tell you your business is just plain immature.


/end PSA



- Signed: A tired-of-this-bullshit Dragoon (also scholar and warrior)

Same with any role.

Cool story bro, write a book.

Signing the sentiment to this, and I say that as a paladin through and through.


Leveling white mage now (at 46 and looooooooving Holy at almost inappropriate levels) and I finally came across my first ragequit tank in Stone Vigil. The guy was a warrior and completely inept at holding aggro on anything, or even establishing it. For instance-- 3 mobs ahead, he runs in, pulls on the first one, whacks away at it, I think I sort of see a flash used, I wait a good 10 seconds just to be sure he has SOME kind of hate on everything, and I finally toss a cure on him. Not a cure II, just cure. Boom, 2 of the three mobs come right at me. Happens on every damn pull. On top of the ineptitude, the warrior thought he was hot stuff and was mouthing off to the rest of us about not knowing how to play our roles and not knowing when to hold back so we didn't pull aggro off of him.

Lawl. Turns out the other three of us were all tanks and in there leveling our alts. So, we were all like, "um... um... no".

After the second boss, we finally had to be like, okay, we get you think we're the ones doing something here, but we're all tanks and we're noticing that you aren't doing combo rotations, you aren't using aoe hate builders like flash, etc, and we need you to focus more on rotation and hate from all mobs, not just the first one you pull."

His response? "Okay then, take care." And immediately left.

Our reaction?

http://i.imgur.com/J856HEW.gif

The point of the story is, if a white mage or a dragoon or a summoner or whatever is pointing something out to you, dismissing it on account of the job you're only seeing them in at that moment is utter foolishness. Common sense is not class-specific, and there's every chance that white mage or dragoon or summoner has already mastered the very job you're getting so e-peened over.


Oh, I almost forgot the best part of my example story. (That's a lie, I would never forget it, I just wanted to draw more attention to it.) Just to spite that ragequitting warrior, the two dps and I went on to reach the final boss in Stone Vigil and one-shotted him while a tank that joined the party mid-way through the fight was forced to watch us do it from outside the final area. :D

Players being assholes from behind a screen in the comfort of their chair? Who'd of thought. Pretty easy to be a dick to people in a random people generator that you stand little chance of seeing again.

As a general rule I try to learn the basic ins and outs for every class. SO if you are a complete moron (one such example given above), there is a good chance I do know more than you despite the fact I haven't thoroughly played your class. This goes to all classes.

Second, almost every bit of advice given in a party chat has some truth to it. From the polite suggestions to the raging death threats. Sure get offended but after you calm down look at what was said and research what you can improve off it. May not be much there but learn it and improve. Though sometimes the message is player x is a complete dumbass and should probably be left in their own special corner.

There are just as many "bad" players in every role.

This is a useless thread.

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There are just as many "bad" players in every role.

This is a useless thread.

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^This. That should be a shout out to all players, not just the tanks.

Realistically, if a tank is in these forums, reading what anybody has to say . . . they aren't playing like that, because we've already told them to seek psychiatric assistance.

The flipside of course, is, don't say "/party GET HATE OMG WHAT ARE YOU DOING"

news flash, Neither Warrior, or PLD, have an ability called "Get Hate" That, so to speak to this comment:

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Second, almost every bit of advice given in a party chat has some truth to it.

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It's a good thing you said almost. . . coz that was actually typed to me when I was running my first endgame dungeons. (Mostly AK). The fact of the matter was I was undergeared, and the DPS were just all out DPS'ing, just like they did with their static tank, who was apparently in much better gear than I was.

That's all well and good. If someone asks me to do something differently, I usually will accommodate. But it does get annoying sometimes when the healer or dps bark orders at me because they like something done a very specific way in a dungeon. It is especially annoying when everything is going smoothly and there is really no need to change how we are doing things. I feel like I am being treated like a Titan Egi at that point.

I agree with the sentiment of this thread, and as a tank I often ask for advice when running content and things don't seem like they are going well.

That being said,

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It doesn't make you "better" than the other members of your party however, you are one cog in the machine.

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This is true. But it's a more important cog that's more difficult to play than other people's duties (in many cases, not every fight) and with a greater responsibility level.

im a tank and i disagree, all roles are just as important. The tank´s role is simply more obvious when done wrong.

Generally speaking, the people who read these threads tend to know what to do and are often the ones that try to make runs a walk in the park.

Sorry to say but your preaching to the choir.

"Please use Circle of Scorn twice at the start to stack damage."

That's the shit we get in dungeons -_-

But I do agree especially when playing my SCH I take every bit of advice I can get from people who know what they are talking about.

ironically enough when things go to shit nine times outta ten people like to blame some one and not hold their selves accountable.

I find this so awkward to do. As a healer main with a tank secondary, and a level 50 friend who also is a tank, I know a little bit about it and if I see someone struggling I want to help them. But if you try to give advice, you sort of sound like a dink telling them how to play their class.

Although in WP I had one tank, I just yelled out in party to pop cooldowns cause we were at like 6 stacks, and I'm so used to playing with people who are new to this dungeon, he flipped out on me telling me he knows how to play his effin class and I better stop trying to tell him how to do it =\ Awh well, some people are jerks I guess.

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Originally Posted by Avalon_Albrook

His response? "Okay then, take care." And immediately left.

Our reaction?

http://i.imgur.com/J856HEW.gif

The point of the story is, if a white mage or a dragoon or a summoner or whatever is pointing something out to you, dismissing it on account of the job you're only seeing them in at that moment is utter foolishness. Common sense is not class-specific, and there's every chance that white mage or dragoon or summoner has already mastered the very job you're getting so e-peened over.
Oh, I almost forgot the best part of my example story. (That's a lie, I would never forget it, I just wanted to draw more attention to it.) Just to spite that ragequitting warrior, the two dps and I went on to reach the final boss in Stone Vigil and one-shotted him while a tank that joined the party mid-way through the fight was forced to watch us do it from outside the final area. :D

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This is so good i cried tears of kittens

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=768h3Tz4Qik

There's being an ass and there's actually those who have good advice, you might run into me as a tank but it doesn't mean my knowledge is limited to one class.

I think learning to listen to people that are genuinely offering good advice and just ignoring the ass hats is the key.

You will find this kind of attitude among all "highly wanted" classes. Of course especially among Tanks and Healers. They can "afford it"...they don't have to wait most of the time for any type of content, be it DF or Shout Parties. Shout for 4 DPS, it takes 30seconds to get them. Shout for 2 Tanks and 2 Healers and you might sit around for an hour. That doesn't change though that "those people" are just being dIcks. The majority still consists of decent and nice people.

I'm still a relatively young tank but its funny, when I'm in one group the healer complains that I break his sleep and I shouldn't use overpower, in the next group I cop flack on the first, yes the first pull because I did not overpower enough.

The greatest skill a tank must learn is patience.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

Just a public service announcement for the tanks out there.

*snip*



- Signed: A tired-of-this-bullshit Dragoon (also scholar and warrior)

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Bro, I've tanked in almost every MMO that has come out to this date. Its never easy. I take on the role of the leader. And as a leader I don't like having my troops telling me what to do. Yeah its dickish, but it has to been done. I can dps to, its not hard. All you have do to kill stuff. So don't come to our forums and tells us about a crap tank that made you die. Go whine about on the dps forums. Because if you were a tank you'd know better then to come here and bitch.

Sincerely

You're Tank.

i have 8k hp

i'll tank mobs with tonberrys shanking me if i want to

u just shut your heathen mouth and kill things for me ok =D

jk

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I'm still a relatively young tank but its funny, when I'm in one group the healer complains that I break his sleep and I shouldn't use overpower, in the next group I cop flack on the first, yes the first pull because I did not overpower enough.

The greatest skill a tank must learn is patience.

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i disagree vehemently

in this case

just keep breaking their sleeps anyway so that they will figure out what they are doing is pointless

Most of the heavy damage pulls in this game cannot be slept anyway. The only one I can think of is the one in Stone Vigil with the Dragon Aevis x2 (potentially 3, or is it 3?) + 3x Ice Elementals, and you can just run circles around the elementals to avoid taking damage from them.

and I mean we aren't talking about sleeping because someone accidentally pulled extra or because the tank cant hold aggro, we're talking about when there are 3 or 4 enemies and the healer is sleeping all targets but the active target. in lower level dungeons there have been times where i have taken spikes in damage that have almost killed me because a healer was sleeping something instead of healing me.

theres not really much of a reason to sleep targets if you ask me

Seriously?

A tank is the number one make or break for a group. If heals sucks a well geared tank can endure, if dps sucks a well geared tank will endure. If everyone dies and the tank is the last one left standing he possibly could endure.

Honestly you don't like how I do something? I hope you enjoy the re-Q, this is my group. If more than you don't like me in the group, then I can afk until one of you guys decided to leave.

My job is simple so I yours. You do it well and we won't have a problem, do it poorly we will its that simple.

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Originally Posted by mcnuggetz

Bro, I've tanked in almost every MMO that has come out to this date. Its never easy. I take on the role of the leader. And as a leader I don't like having my troops telling me what to do. Yeah its dickish, but it has to been done.

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If you're doing stuff that I know for certain is going to get us both killed, I'm going to call you on it. It has to be done.

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Originally Posted by Fersaken

Honestly you don't like how I do something? I hope you enjoy the re-Q, this is my group. If more than you don't like me in the group, then I can afk until one of you guys decided to leave.

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The OP's talking about a tank essentially suiciding, then complaining when the DD tells him to stop suiciding. I should hope you're mature enough to realize that the tank in the OP is pretty much in the wrong.

There are two types of talk I have faced in a dungeon: #1 Telling me how to play a tank; #2 How to play the dungeon.

I fully welcome the latter since I may have cleared most dungeons in the game but it does not make me all knowing.

However, I simply cannot tollerate people telling me how to play my tank. If I missed something, sure. But if you tell me "Oh, use your Halone combo"; well, NO SHIT!

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Originally Posted by Fersaken

Seriously?

A tank is the number one make or break for a group. If heals sucks a well geared tank can endure, if dps sucks a well geared tank will endure. If everyone dies and the tank is the last one left standing he possibly could endure.

Honestly you don't like how I do something? I hope you enjoy the re-Q, this is my group. If more than you don't like me in the group, then I can afk until one of you guys decided to leave.

My job is simple so I yours. You do it well and we won't have a problem, do it poorly we will its that simple.

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^ You are the man, wholeheartedly agree.

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Originally Posted by mcnuggetz

Because if you were a tank you'd know better then to come here and bitch.

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He said bitchily.

Honestly, I avoid giving advice generally to anyone for just this reason of them flipping out (save for fc mates, then I go all out rather objectively because they know I'm not being a d*** for the sake of being one), though when I do I always try to be reallllly polite and supportive: 'maybe we should try saving our defensive abilities when we are engaged with the boss rather than five seconds before you pull...?'

On a flip side, some people really suck at 'giving advice'. Going through AK, I was told by a dl/relic+1 pld that 'we wouldn't have enough dps for the wall' after the first boss because I only had heavy thrust up 70% of the time rather than 100%. (lol right? I was in nearly all darklight with the mog fork too, so it wasn't a gear thing) It was my second or third time doing AK as dragoon, as I normally main war but needed AK for drg's relic. We beat it, but we did wipe a couple times due to a new whm. The guy even threatened to leave because of that, even though he let himself get hit by imminent catastrophe several times.(not the reason we wiped, but still, don't crap on other people when you're not so good yourself)

lol i am PLD 50 and WAR 50 and i was tank in many mmo
but.... guys.... guys tanking here is sooooo esay and
BTW
heals job do more then tank lot more...!
DPS job have to do allot things like damage + doge skills + stun or silent +.. +... +.....

and tank only there just useing some skills ;/ soooooo esay
this game not like ffxi there you can say: TANK is the best in the list....
here in FFXIV .... just doing thing all you have to do is -----> do it good
i do all thing in this game last was coil and DPS + helas job's do more then me

and about advice... if i am doing bad ... its ok if someone better then me tell me what to do why i go angry? lol if he not know what he saying then kick him out the party or-----> BL if cant lol ^^

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

Just a public service announcement for the tanks out there. > Snip

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Hi to you, who think you are a smartass. Let me tell you why I call most of the DPS I run with "stupid & idiot."

As you said you were a WAR, there is nothing more annoying than a stupid DPS who will start attacking during your pull, for the sake of his big number that no one care about.
Because when the said DPS does that, he interupt the whole process of safe pulling, forcing you to run back to the attacked mob, claim back the enmity, run back to the fighting point, during that time your healer will try to cure the persons who take hit & will claim enmity over mobs that were not even attacked in the first place, forcing you to run after theses mobs too.

Its even more annoying when they start bitching at you for not being able to hold hate, of monsters you did not hit in the first place, because you are making a train of mobs until you reach that safe spot.

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Originally Posted by Gandora

skip

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During all of this event, your tank take somes damage, as well as the others, while the healer will struggle to vkeep everyone alive.

So many time I end up with DDs who think they are the shit because they have a relic+1 & full DL, but who doesn't know a thing when it come to Tank mechanics, which is sad when they get a tank @ 50.

Can you tell me, what is the point of interupting the pulls of a tank? If its not to be an idiot? Not everyone feel comfortable with Speed runs, and ever less when a DD alow himself to screw the Tank atempt to do it right.

This is what make the difference betwin a good & a bad DD.

Good DD: will let you establish a good level of enmity to make safe damage bursts.
Bad DD: He wont care & attack whenever he feel like it, taking the risk to screw up everything.

Its just a matter of secondes, which turn into a 5+ mins waste because of the DDs in most situations.

I'll listen and take advice from other players into consideration. I'm not going to do EVERYTHING someone suggests I do. Such as try to tank the bees in the black stuff at the back by the door on demon wall in AK.

Weather I listen depends on how useful your advice. Like I was doing a WP run and the dps guy asked me why I wasn't using spirits within and circle of scorn more often. I could admittedly but I didn't know when the thirty seconds were up, that's when he told me about /macroicon and I've been using it ever since.

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Originally Posted by mcnuggetz

Bro, I've tanked in almost every MMO that has come out to this date. Its never easy. I take on the role of the leader. And as a leader I don't like having my troops telling me what to do. Yeah its dickish, but it has to been done. I can dps to, its not hard. All you have do to kill stuff. So don't come to our forums and tells us about a crap tank that made you die. Go whine about on the dps forums. Because if you were a tank you'd know better then to come here and bitch.

Sincerely

You're Tank.

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I leveled my PLD to 50 first before switching to MNK. I've also tanked in plenty of other games too. Tanking in this game (on a PLD at least) is one of the easiest job I've encountered in an MMO in a long time. Get over yourself, you are not that special.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

After wiping twice on the final stalker section of Wanderer's palace because you tried tank the mobs halfway down the hall where the stalker's going to shank you, it's maybe time you start listening to your "stupid DPS". Deliberately letting people die because a "filthy dragoon" dared tell you your business is just plain immature.


/end PSA



- Signed: A tired-of-this-bullshit Dragoon (also scholar and warrior)

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Your job is to DPS not give advice . Less talk more pew pew .

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Originally Posted by Grailer

Your job is to DPS not give advice . Less talk more pew pew .

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Your job is to tank, not get yourself stabbed to death. Less arrogance, more doing your job.

But why are we fighting like this? We're all teammet in long run yea there are shitty people are there who think they are all-knowing. But we have to work with them anyway to do the Primal, Dung and etc. Which i don't get yea people give me advice I take it with pride...this is how i see things

Tank- Protect your teammet
Damage Dealers- Kill the enemies faster
Healer- Keep everyone alive

Let's just give up people, if you aren't the tank you are just people that are easily replaced.

We have to listen to the tank no matter what, what choice do we have?

We are simply at their mercy...

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Originally Posted by Giyari

Let's just give up people, if you aren't the tank you are just people that are easily replaced.
We have to listen to the tank no matter what, what choice do we have?
We are simply at their mercy...

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That is uncorrect, the fact you may spend more time waiting as a DD does not make you less valuable, also you should see the abusive behavior of some players, I can assure you most of them have 0 to very few knowledge when it come to tanking, and in most case they are DD.

Competent tanks are fairly rare therefore they are seen as a more 'valuable' commodity than competent damage dealers and healers. The loss of a couple of tanks can cripple a guilds raid progress but usually there are sufficient damage dealers and healers that the loss of a few doesn't have too large an impact.

However that isn't a licence for tanks to be unpleasant to other people. I've seen rude tanks quickly find themselves unable to get groups because other player would rather not run instances at all than run with that tank.

Here in my country we have this wise saying, I think the correct English translation would be:

To give unasked advice is bad, to give unasked good advice is fatal.

Depends on what the advice is honestly. I'm a newly 50 PLD so am finding my legs a bit. If the advice is about the finer points of my rotation or specific information about where/how to tank in a certain instance then sure! I'm all ears. If however we're talking about a DPS who unloads on a pull before they've even reached me for Flash with "OMG USE FLASH MORE" then no. If you're terrible at your own job, then you probably shouldn't be giving advice.

People are also used to doing things the way they were taught and efficiency can be a grey area. For example Anantaboga in AK, I like to tank her in the far right corner behind the pillar. This way I don't need to move for Catastrophe, the melee DPS can stack right next to her and also don't need to move, and everyone is generally safe from cone attacks. I've seen many tanks tank her between the two right pillars either facing the center of the room or the outside. To me this is not as efficient, but the truth is it doesn't really matter because it's an easy fight. On my other jobs I generally go with the flow unless the party is having serious issues.

However on my first AK run ever as a PLD, I had a healer that lost. their. mind. when I pulled the boss to the corner and swore up and down we would wipe. But we didn't.