So I made the swap to PLD today and...
Killed Ifrit for relic chain, won the weapon.
Killed Garuda for relic chain, won the weapon.
Killed Titan for relic chain, won the shield.
These were all my first kills of those primals as a PLD.
Can't wait for coil next week!
I also have to add WAR was my first and until today only 50, took it through to Twintania. Playing as a PLD now, I feel almost indestructible, I feel much more in control of the damage I take instead of being just a large HP bar in a suit of armor.
It also feels like I have more to do, stuns, silences, blinding, pacification, 2 offensive skills off the GCD to watch, and that when I do push to do more I'm actually getting something out of my character rather than just trying to strive to break even.
Just my personal experience thus far as a PLD re-roll.
It must be a sign...
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11-07-2013, 07:04 PMPhreakIt must be a sign...
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11-07-2013, 07:20 PMPaikis
Funny, I started as a PLD, then leveled WAR in 2 days because I was sick of agro issues (I had Ifrit's sword, and I had a relic SMN and relic MNK in my static group... not fun). I prefer WAR honestly, as a Paladin I feel like I have no control of my HP bar. I KNOW that this is an illusion, and that I would have much more eHP on the PLD, but I just prefer the feel of the WAR.
To each their own. I honestly hope they don't buff the WAR too much in the coming patch. I *like* the fact that I constantly get compliments about being a really good Warrior, and the fact that I've tanked everything in the game (yes including dreadnaughts) tells me that WAR is good enough.
Glad you're enjoying the PLD though, after all that's why we're here isn't it? -
11-08-2013, 12:52 AMEhayte
I have to echo Paikis' sentiment. I leveled a PLD first and got it to Relic and the AF2 chest, and now I'm playing WAR.
I really prefer the WAR feel - I feel like I have much much more control over the ebb and flow of my HP bar. Certainly I can feel that I have less eHP, but I can make up for the mistakes of my healers with my myriad healing abilities. I do feel like I have less utility as a WAR (no silence, shitty stun, no Off-GCD meaningful attacks).
I am starting to understand what I think is the underlying frustration with WAR, in that all of the abilities that a WAR has are geared towards being the MAIN tank. Overpower feels good but not essential, but with Thrill of Battle and the healing and recovery abilities we have, I think a WAR in good hands FEELS more like the main tank.
PLD, when I play it now, feels like the utility tank; it offers silence, an AE move that rocks socks, consistent stun, stoneskin on self and others, MP recovery, a (horrible) cure spell. Its through the innate abilities and OPed CDs that PLDs have that make them the go-to tank. I really feel like an OT in a MTs shoes while playing PLD since I DON'T need to (or can't really) worry about my HP, I can worry about what others are doing, what other mobs are doing, manage my CDs, Stun, etc. The WAR feels like it was tuned to keep your attention on a smaller number of things, with a greater % of your attention focused on your own hit points.
I'd like to see a buff to WARs that reverse the current roles (PLD to off-tank, WAR to MT) - but I know that's a very very long shot and it would piss everyone off, and its against the spirit of the sentiment to which I agree: the game was designed to have two main tanks (I agree it WAS designed this way, not that it is correct - I actually think that's dumb as hell). -
11-08-2013, 01:15 AMGrogin
I am now leveling PLD after going WAR to 50. I must say that the leveling of WAR was much easier and more fun in my opinion. PLD just seems really boring while getting to 50. I am excited to see the difference when I get to 50 though.
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11-08-2013, 01:17 AMMishini_Dracoto
I'm levelling my PLD now. I'm only level 32 mind you, but I'm finding it fairly dry. I desperately miss my Overpower, to be honest. I decided yesterday that I'm going to invest in my Mythology Accessories before anything else, since I'll use those on both WAR & PLD.
PLD appears to be easy mode. You can do more, with less gear. WAR is more engaging, and I think actually contributes more in the hands of a good player . . . but law of averages says that that means there will be a larger ration of crappy WAR's than crappy PLD's . . . making PLD's the go-to. All the same, I'm looking forward to endgame w/ versatility of both classes. -
11-08-2013, 01:29 AMCyanDvai
My War is only 32 and I haven't tanked anything yet on it, I already had like 25 levels in from v1.0.
I have played with the idea of leveling war for the versatility of tanking styles (I have always played a PLD class in every MMO).
I have been on the edge of which class to work on BRD, WHM, WAR (even considering SCH), but PLD has always and will always be my Main class. I am wondering how the WAR buff will affect the Job. -
11-08-2013, 02:10 AMOrophinReally doesn't matter what tank class you play as, if a relic +1 DPS wants to pull hate off of you they will do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
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11-08-2013, 03:09 AMMishini_Dracotoyes, and I will Hate them for it! I will curse their families and curse their first born child into the arms of rumplestilkskin, and their first born daughter shall be cursed with the visage of a pig! Their Houses shall Crumble and their crops will wither! Only when they face true destitution and desparity shall I grant them their final release from this curse - death.Quote:
Really doesn't matter what tank class you play as, if a relic +1 DPS wants to pull hate off of you they will do it.
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11-08-2013, 03:55 AMMishini_Dracotoyes, and I will Hate them for it! I will curse their families and curse their first born child into the arms of rumplestilkskin, and their first born daughter shall be cursed with the visage of a pig! Their Houses shall Crumble and their crops will wither! Only when they face true destitution and desparity shall I grant them their final release from this curse - death.Quote:
Really doesn't matter what tank class you play as, if a relic +1 DPS wants to pull hate off of you they will do it.
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11-08-2013, 04:00 AMAriynI disagree with almost everything you said. You feel like WAR is a main tank because they can control their hp bar? You have no more control over it then a PLD does. yes you have a couple self heals but once those are gone you are at much more of a disadvantage. PLD has more eHP. Until they change that and make the healing increase to WAR then WAR won't be a MT unless a fc wants to do a "hard mode". having a war MT is just putting undue stress on your healers. While they can tank anything in game it doesn't mean that it is not easier with a PLDQuote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
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11-08-2013, 04:14 AMEhayteWhen you use your heals, you can regenerate them...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ariyn
You agree with everything I said, and you perceive the Jobs the same way I do. I think WAR needs a buff, but I feel like the abilities are TUNED to MTing...they are not powerful enough to accomplish it. Were they powerful enough, I feel (operative word) that WAR feels (operative word) more like a MT : D
I 100% agree WAR abilities don't stack up in terms of power to PLD abilities currently. -
11-08-2013, 06:57 AMarmandojc3
IMO the argument here is more about fun and yes a warrior is loads more fun than pally. Is he inferior? yes he is. pretty much all there is to it.
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11-08-2013, 08:41 AMPhreak
I'd much rather have control over the damage I take than my HP bar, that's primarily the healers job and as a WAR it is very easy to step on each other's toes in later turns it's just not practical to say 'don't heal me I have an Inner Beast ready' when taking into account how spikey damage is and voice chat delay/human reaction time. There have been times in coil where being able to double inner beast or pop ToB at the right time has saved me due to healer negligence but I believe had I been a PLD I would have never been in that situation to begin with.
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11-08-2013, 08:54 AMEbon_Drake
I approve of this thread.
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11-08-2013, 11:55 PMEhayteTotally agree (not with controlling the damage you take instead of your HP bar, but with the quote above) - if WAR healing abilities allowed you to scale up your TOTAL HP (make inner beast function like Thrill of Battle), then I think it solves A LOT.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
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11-09-2013, 12:08 AMPhreakI actually really like this idea, have inner beast increase your health by X00% of the damage and also heal that amount, have the buff last for say 10-15 (keeps you from stacking/refreshing the buff).Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
I would be fully on board for something like this is we were given a +25% healing buff decoupled from Wrath stacks.
The buff would also have to over write any previous Inner Beast buff, making double dipping w/ infuriate less attractive BUT maybe now we'll be using Infuriate for flavor OR if say the buff only lasted 10 seconds and we really need that HP buffer before we could build another 5 stack normally (15-20 seconds).
There could also be the possibility that the duration is allowed to stack the remainder from a previous buff onto a new one and average the 2 hits into the new HP Increase/Heal. Prevents waste but would probably encourage sloppy/lazy play by turning IB into something that's pretty much spammable without any thought. -
11-09-2013, 12:37 AMEhayteAhhh, but that's kind of what needs to happen, isn't it? Without having instantaneous and intuitive mental telepathy with your healers, IB needs to be able to have SOME passive applications - i.e. you should be able to hit it without causing NEGATIVE consequences (i.e. you hit IB while a CureII is hitting you, and you heal yourself for 2pt of health out of your 1600pt heal). There would still be the reactive uses, like recovering health, like I'm sure we've all used ToB, but it would also be applicable on the flip side of bracing for a large hit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
Also - it would be tons of fun : D
Base HP 7500
Inner Beast for 1700 > 9200 HP
Thill of Battle > 11040 HP
Mountain Buster? To quote one of my favorite FFVII characters: Bwahahahahaha! -
11-09-2013, 12:49 AMPhreakTo a point yeah I would like to see it in frequent use but would like to avoid it turning into something along the lines of 'press Inner Beast every time it lights up' I would much rather see 'Use inner beast frequently to give your healers some breathing room but it's also a good Idea to hold onto it in cases of incoming large predictable hits'Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
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11-09-2013, 12:54 AMEhayteExactly - you can either select to use it pre-emptively or reactively, doubling its applications - if the duration is 7-12s and you hit it whenever you feel like it you won't have it for either of those situations. But also, thinking outside of extremely challenging situations, it would still be a good idea to hit it without dire need. 300 potency attack and lightens a healer load during trash pulls? Sweet. Also - I like the 25% healing buff, but I think it should be something like 10% static with Defiance, and adding the 3%/stack up to 25% with Wrath.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phreak
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11-09-2013, 01:10 AMPhreakThe biggest thing with continuing with the Wrath = +healing% is there will always come a point with the way enemy damage scales that it'll be more efficient to always hold onto those stacks and never use IB even if it did NOT step on the healers toes. (which is the case right now in coil) I believe one of our core flavor abilities shouldn't contradict itself. Now if it only took something like 10 seconds to recover your stacks I'd be more willing to tolerate the way the mechanic works now but one of the more notable issues right now is heals are less efficient when cast on a WAR vs PLD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ehayte
Damage is just too spiky/heavy in this game compared to our available HP pools to allow healers the kind of breathing room they'd need to provide the kind of time buffer we'd want to make it seem like less of a loss when deciding to use our wrath, every fight in coil there is next to no down time after a threatening hit so all healers are ever doing is chain casting on you regardless.