FATE experience rate comparison

I've seen a lot of fuzzy claims of late which amount to this-or-that is faster experience gain than FATEs, but there's never any data (or even rudimentary calculations) to back it up. Naturally, I decided to head out and test it myself. I ran two tests at the same level: WAR at level 46 in a Dzemael Darkhold and DRG at level 46 in Northern Thanalan. Because WAR was my highest-leveled battle class, I decided to simulate the +50% level bonus by having Rested EXP for the duration. This is identical in effect, offering +50% to all combat EXP and being additive with other bonuses (food, chain bonuses, etc). I ensured that there was no starting rested bonus for DRG.

Dzemael Darkhold:
Time elapsed: 43 minutes
Experience earned: 92641
Approximate XP rate: 2154/min
Starting screenshot:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/4429/j5tl.jpg

Ending screenshot:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/7213/g0mo.jpg

Northern Thanalan FATE party:
Time elapsed: 48 minutes
Experience earned: 348885
Approximate XP rate: 7268/min
Starting screenshot:

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/4499/y4vk.jpg

Ending screenshot:

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/5919/ajy6.jpg

Ratio of FATE XP rate to dungeon XP rate: 3.37:1

You can take this how you will. I aim only to enlighten the debate a bit with data rather than speculation. Feel free to repeat the test yourself. I do not know whether the ratio grows, shrinks, or remains constant with character level.

A few comments:
-The Dzemael Darkhold run was done with random players through the Duty Finder. It was one of the better parties I've led through the dungeon, though I can imagine a well-coordinated static group could complete it much more quickly. I do not believe that is a relevant consideration, however; static groups during leveling are fairly difficult to organize as players will out-level one another.
-I didn't think much of starting the test during the middle of Dark Devices, which spawns about every hour. I had intended to do a full hour to compare. Unfortunately, FATE experience gain was too great, and I had already leveled before the hour was up.
-I do have another screenshot taken 13 minutes after the FATE completion one. I decided not to use it due to being over the intended level 46 interval. In the intervening 13 minutes, I acquired an additional 84383 experience, for an experience gain rate of 6491. This would reinforce the previous findings, but it is not as reliable on its own and isn't apples-to-apples with the Dzemael Darkhold test.

Thanks for taking the time to do this. I leveled my first class entirely with dungeons and ended up farming places like Dzemael, Stone Vigil, Arum Vale 20 times each. Now leveling my second class (WHM, first was SCH), I was trying to level with dungeons again but for some reason I was getting 30m + queues so I decided to bite the bullet, and reduced myself to FATE grinding.

One dungeon gave me about 1/4 bar of exp after a 30m queue time plus 45m in the dungeon. About half an hour FATEing got me a full level. The difference is absolutely insane. If dungeon queues weren't crazy for me I'd still do them, this exp rate feels waay too fast, but it's really the only viable option for non tanks.

From my experience, the early dungeons offer a much higher xp gain than the early fates. Sashasta, Tam Tara and Copperbell all give a full level when run at minimum level for entry. In the late teens, there is no faster way to level to 20 than these 3 dungeons (doody finder wait time not included).

Starting around the mid 20's (between Toto and Haukke) to mid 30's (Qarn) the XP gains are fairly close. Depending on where you farm the FATEs and which ones spawn, FATEs can have an edge over dungeons here.

Then around lvl 35-38 or so, FATE xp starts leaving dungeons in the dust with the XP gain. At this point FATE xp and the speed at which they are completed makes them much more lucrative for XP.

Again, I have no HARD data on this, these are simple observations from my experience.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMCain

From my experience, the early dungeons offer a much higher xp gain than the early fates.

---

This is certainly a possibility. Mob experience does not seem to scale in the same way that FATE experience does. I will try to test this some time soon.

I noticed this as well. I really wish people would stop saying dungeon exp gives more than fates so they can get some exp tweaks. I want to see more people using the duty finder, dungeons are a lot of fun.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gamemako

This is certainly a possibility. Mob experience does not seem to scale in the same way that FATE experience does. I will try to test this some time soon.

---

Real easy to test. Just grab any job and as soon as it hits 15, go into sastasha, you will leave at lvl 16. Then TT for 17 and Copperbell for 18. Then TT or CPB another 3x (maybe 4x) for 20. With a decent group, you can clear each dungeon in 30-40 minutes. Fates at that level do not give that kind of XP.

Mob XP in dungeons is fairly high. With rest, low- level bonus and food, you can get up to 103% bonus. IIRC, in TT, that would be 4-600 per kill.

On a side note, if you sync a dungeon with your highest class (if not yet 50), you get a bonus to XP also. NOT the full 50%, it's closer to a 25% bonus (again, observation, no hard data).

I tested running Copperbell Mines at level 18 -- I was healer, not tank, so I didn't control the run's pace but did push things along by repeatedly outstripping tank enmity (rawr, healer DPS). Not the fastest run, but no deaths or wipes. 38 minutes to complete. Depending on whether you include the first-completion bonus, I hit either 951 experience per minute or 856 experience per minute. I'll run FATEs near Aleport tomorrow.

FATE result (level 18 near Aleport, where FATEs are levels 10-18):

Time: 23 minutes
EXP: 49749
EXP/min: 2163

So at level 18, FATEs in Aleport are 2.27 to 2.53 times the experience rate of dungeons. That may be partly a question of the efficiency of the area, with fewer players, fewer FATEs, a larger area to cover, and being overleveled for most of the FATEs in the area. I can try again at level 20, with a fresh dungeon and fresh FATE area to compare, but I don't think it's going to get any more favorable for dungeons.

One final test: level 20 dungeons versus FATEs.

Level 20 dungeons: Halatali
Time: 39 minutes
EXP: 39344
Experience rate: 1009/min

Level 20 FATEs: South Shroud
Time: 22 minutes
EXP: 48972
Experience rate: 2226/min

That FATE-farming went exceedingly poorly. I died repeatedly and got no reward for two FATEs (including 10k from Coeurl King). Worth reproducing here even for that alone. Didn't turn out well at all, but it still beats the hell out of dungeons. I did another level in FATEs, which went much more smoothly:

Level 21 FATEs: South Shroud
Time: 18 minutes
EXP: 61405
Experience rate: 3411/min

That actually ended right before Coeurl King, so 2 minutes later, I had another 11000 EXP. Wouldn't be fair to include it, however. Regardless, just beating a dead horse.

This is an extreme flaw in the game, that the most rewarding/successful method of playing and gaining experience is to simple spam 1 skill BLM spam Blizzard 2, WHM spam Medica, etc...

I am shocked that they have left this in the game for so long now, and dungeon xp is so bad. SE seems very slow to react and change critical issues with the game.

another post giving reason to claim how fates are so horrible for the game. Really? you really think its so horrible that people dont have to grind for 100 hours just to get a second class to 50? Seriously, stop letting personal beliefs that this is a FF console game, it is an mmo where you are allowed to have multiple characters and multiple classes, reducing fates: dumbest move SE could make. increasing dungeon xp:next dumbest thing they could do. decreasing wait time for duty finder: smartest thing they could do but the absolute hardest thing to do with so many freaking dps people.

Given the OP's numbers, why would anyone choose to level up in a dungeon if they can get 3 times the xp in a fate? Especially, when people also consider the amount of work that is needed to get the reward for fates vs the amount of work needed to get the reward in a dungeon.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Axlle10

another post giving reason to claim how fates are so horrible for the game.

---

I have deliberately left all discussion to that effect out of this thread. I created this thread to inform the debate, not to argue what should be done about the issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DMCain

From my experience, the early dungeons offer a much higher xp gain than the early fates. Sashasta, Tam Tara and Copperbell all give a full level when run at minimum level for entry. In the late teens, there is no faster way to level to 20 than these 3 dungeons (doody finder wait time not included).

Starting around the mid 20's (between Toto and Haukke) to mid 30's (Qarn) the XP gains are fairly close. Depending on where you farm the FATEs and which ones spawn, FATEs can have an edge over dungeons here.

Then around lvl 35-38 or so, FATE xp starts leaving dungeons in the dust with the XP gain. At this point FATE xp and the speed at which they are completed makes them much more lucrative for XP.

Again, I have no HARD data on this, these are simple observations from my experience.

---

Aleport is much quicker if you factor in duty wait time. IF you have no wait time then it's probably similar.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Deathscythe343

Given the OP's numbers, why would anyone choose to level up in a dungeon if they can get 3 times the xp in a fate? Especially, when people also consider the amount of work that is needed to get the reward for fates vs the amount of work needed to get the reward in a dungeon.

---

Because FATEs are strictly unfun when they are being milked for XP or overcrowded like the Coerthas ones.
So i've been having the hardest friggen time levelling my BLM since I am avoiding them, but I might have to cave in

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gamemako

I have deliberately left all discussion to that effect out of this thread. I created this thread to inform the debate, not to argue what should be done about the issue.

---

Sorry wasnt bashing you. great info on the numbers side, but everyone always has to use that to bash fates more and more. People just need to realize dungeons give you gear, exp, and tomes for later ones. Get a good party going for a lot of runs and you can build up quite a load of stuff to SB, sell, and do all sorts of other stuff with.

Yes, i do believe that Fate/Dungeon exp is too one sided, but you do get the benefits of being able to get totally geared off of dungeons whereas you have to get a crafting class, buy, or use GC gear for Fate grinding.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Axlle10

another post giving reason to claim how fates are so horrible for the game. Really? you really think its so horrible that people dont have to grind for 100 hours just to get a second class to 50? Seriously, stop letting personal beliefs that this is a FF console game, it is an mmo where you are allowed to have multiple characters and multiple classes, reducing fates: dumbest move SE could make. increasing dungeon xp:next dumbest thing they could do. decreasing wait time for duty finder: smartest thing they could do but the absolute hardest thing to do with so many freaking dps people.

---

they are upping the dungeon xp so deal with it and it isn't a dumb idea. to think the only valid way of fast xp should be zerging fates is very ridiculous. more options for leveling is better then just fates at the moment

And another side issue related to this topic. What we find when trying to recruit for Coil is that SOOOO many people leveled through fates that very few even know their class rotation very well. We tried at least 3 different BLMs and none of them were using the proper rotation and I had to explain to them. By increasing dungeon exp hopefully that will greatly encourage proper teamwork and force people to research their rotations.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Axlle10

another post giving reason to claim how fates are so horrible for the game. Really? you really think its so horrible that people dont have to grind for 100 hours just to get a second class to 50? Seriously, stop letting personal beliefs that this is a FF console game, it is an mmo where you are allowed to have multiple characters and multiple classes, reducing fates: dumbest move SE could make. increasing dungeon xp:next dumbest thing they could do. decreasing wait time for duty finder: smartest thing they could do but the absolute hardest thing to do with so many freaking dps people.

---

How exactly is raising dungeon exp. a dumb idea? The more options available the better, right? Dungeons take some form of tactics, teamwork, and knowledge, unlike FATES so why would FATES give more exp. than Dungeons? Level the playing field by matching exp. to difficulty vs reward.

Raising dungeon EXP won't necessarily fix the issue, because many players want to rush through and don't take the time to go after every mob. This isn't too big a problem in some of the earlier dungeons, but in places like Brayflox, there are concentrations of of mobs that can be completely ignored (and often are).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andevom

Raising dungeon EXP won't necessarily fix the issue, because many players want to rush through and don't take the time to go after every mob. This isn't too big a problem in some of the earlier dungeons, but in places like Brayflox, there are concentrations of of mobs that can be completely ignored (and often are).

---

Then that is a community issue, not a design flaw. The goal is not to force people to have to fight mobs while attempting to clear dungeons, but to open up a way to compete with FATES when exping. As I stated in my previous post FATES do not teach players teamwork, or job mechanics but give double the amount of exp. Our job as a community should be to implore players to be the best they can be in order to utilize them, should the need arise, on harder fights that we all will encounter in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andevom

Raising dungeon EXP won't necessarily fix the issue, because many players want to rush through and don't take the time to go after every mob...

---

If the dungeon mobs are the ones giving experience, why would you ignore them? That would effectively reduce your experience gain rate. It's not like you're being showered with gil or seals for dungeons, so I don't understand how skipping mobs would be relevant.

Also, please try to keep this thread about the experience rate comparison, not about whether FATEs make people bad players.

This may be worth a second look through after looking at the following post, and the planned boost to dungeon xp by 150%. If Dark Devices is unnerfed then it is still the best place to go to level though.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...21-2.1-and-2.2

Interesting that these tests show FATEs give about 3 times more xp, and lo and behold, recent interviews have Yoshi-P saying that dungeons will provide about 3 times more xp in 2.1. This is great news. I would definitely rather run dungeons than grind FATEs and now they should be on par in the amount of xp.

It was suggested to me last week that FATE spawn rates had been nerfed. I did eventually get around to testing this tonight. My conclusion is that it has not been nerfed in South Shroud. Data is as follows for any interested parties.

t=8:34
lv20 - 8836/56600
t=9:12
lv21 - 39913/63900
t=9:19
lv22 - 11895/71400
t=9:41
lv23 - 11736/79100
t=10:13
lv24 - 14763/87100
t=10:38
lv25 - 3014/95200
t=11:03
lv26 - 8623/109800
t=11:36
lv27 - 19628/124800
t=11:59
lv28 - 1558/140200



Intervals:

lv 20-21
t=38
xp=87677
r=2307

lv21-22
t=7
xp=35882
r=5126

lv22-23
t=22
xp=71241
r=3238

lv23-24
t=32
xp=82127
r=2566

lv24
t=25
xp=75351
r=3014

lv25
t=25
xp=100809
r=4032

lv26
t=33
xp=120805
r=3661

lv27
t=23
xp=106730
r=4640

For my case, I grind FATEs so that I could survive dungeons to hunt for items.

Fate:-
Slight faster levelling and GC pts to buy GC items.

Dungeons:-
Fun n item drops.(Crappy due to queuing system)

+++
Exp levels/earnings: its noticed that all my grinding with different class@ same fate same level have different exp gains.

eg. Conj a few hits Vs Thaum spamming : exp gains is slightly higher for Conj.

Other observations:
If Level is 5 levels lesser Fate level, exp gain is minimal or "boss" will reflect a "No Damage" reading.
If Level is 5 levels above Fate level, exp gain is capped@40-50% lesser than previous max exp gained.- skills options are capped too.

Others suggestions,
For dungeons, it shd provide more Gil and GC benefits.

Fate grinding is more for levelling n spamming. =P

add to previous calculations, peeps haven't add massive exp fates timer could be bugged somehow cutting their 1-1.5h timer to 20min timer and do we already counted the DF queue timer unless we're talking about premade non 50s undergeared group powerleveling through dungeons?