First time poster here!
Ever since I got Careful Synthesis (level 15 version), I replace the Standard Synthesis for any of my DoHs with it. I figure that it's a no-brainer in terms of risk management while crafting and you're not giving up that much in terms of efficiency for the tradeoff of knowing that your progress will always increase.
I just dinged 50 on my Carpenter and finished the level 50 Carpenter quest getting Ullikummi. Even when making Spruce Lumber it still takes me 3 Careful Synths to complete the progess on it.
Should I start considering to use Standard Synth for higher grade items or is it par for the course to only use Careful Synth all the time like I have been doing?
Careful vs. Standard
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11-07-2013, 06:58 AMMagusCreedCareful vs. Standard
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11-07-2013, 07:01 AMFiretta
Once I got to a certain level in my crafting, I started using Steady Hands to get a high chance on Touch actions, and when I started doing that, I just naturally started using it for my Synthesis actions as well.
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11-07-2013, 07:07 AMShikiseki
To be honest, Careful Synthesis did not replace my Basic Synthesis(100%) let alone Standard Synthesis(150%).
I had it aside for the last step where I just needed a 100% chance progression so I had both Synthesis abilities in my bar.
Only Careful Synthesis II replaced Basic Synthesis on all of my crafts now since it's superior in both stats.
Standard Synthesis remains useful on higher leveled crafts because 150% is quite the difference and not that much of a problem since you usually want Steady Hand up.
Only Ingenuity makes Careful Synthesis (II) quite useful in higher crafts too. -
11-07-2013, 07:35 AMLemon8or
You should get Careful Synthesis II with Weaver 50: 100% success 0 CP 120% efficiency. I just use most of my CP for quality and Ingenuity. That 15CP from Standard could've gotten you one more touch to boost Byregot in some cases.
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11-11-2013, 01:46 AMPenguinmayhem
Steady Hands makes it literally impossible for Standard or Basic Synthesis to ever 'miss'. The only reason you ever need Careful Synthesis is if you are absolutely out of CP and Steady Hands isn't active.
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11-11-2013, 02:33 AMLaryndra
I finish all of my synths with careful synth II..
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11-11-2013, 09:00 AMVortok
If it takes you 3 Careful Synths on a Spruce Lumber, you might not be using Ingenuity from BSM. Without Ingenuity up on a 1 and 2 star crafts your Synth actions will only be about 55% effective as they normally might. With it you should easily be able to 2 shot Spruce, even with Careful Synth I, and likely one shot them with Standard Synth depending on stats. It'll also increase your touch actions (generally only worth using on the final Great Strides action or two).
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11-13-2013, 06:38 AMscarebearz
In my opinion Careful Synthesis II is the most useful skill, well worth trying to get it.
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11-17-2013, 06:14 PMkukurumeiIngenuity is not enough to use careful2, you need ingenuity2 to make it useful enough (about 30-50 craftsmanship difference)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shikiseki
at about 325 craft you can hit the magical 97 with careful synth 2 with ingenuity2 on.
standard still has a use until you have enough stats to brute force it. -
11-17-2013, 07:29 PMKseniaI would tend to agree for leveling out the other classes. I came in to ARR with 50 Weaver and nothing else over 15. Careful Synthesis II was the backbone to my crafting. It was always on my action bar and determined where I was in terms of progress. If I could complete a 40 in one CS II or an 80 in two CS II I could make the next step in HQ'ing that recipe.Quote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz
Having said that, to this day I need 3 Careful Synthesis II to complete a Twinthread and I'm pretty sure that when I have all 50 the star recipes will force me to abandon CSII in favor of the 150% basic. -
11-17-2013, 08:12 PMVortokAt around 350 craftsmanship or so (slightly before) you should be able to 2 shot 1 star 40 crafts such as Twinthread with Careful Synth II without Ingenuity active. If you don't quite have the stats to 2 shot it, then you probably still have use for HQ mats (aka, it still matters if you're using NQ or HQ Twinthread for making stuff) and thus should probably be using Ingenuity anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ksenia
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11-17-2013, 11:34 PMKsenia
Agreed, Vortok.
tldr: Materia cap your suit because the rest is just hopscotch with the RnG. -
11-18-2013, 01:00 PMscarebearz
I believe the craft needed for 2 hitting twinthread (CS2) is 347, fairly easy to get to.
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11-18-2013, 02:51 PMkukurumeiIngenuity can one shot it at that around craft, which is probably better since you can set it up before touch+blessing for a full 2xtouches of higher progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz
more professionally, ingenuity2+careful2 is 325ish, which is the better choice.
There really isn't that many reason to 2shot twinthread, unless you are using craft food in the first place and hurt for cp. -
11-20-2013, 03:35 AMscarebearzI don't see why anyone would want to use more than 2 skills on making twinthread, there is no point in HQ'ing them, unless you wish to sell them to poorer geared/less x-class crafter's to use.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
ingenuity2+careful2 is still 2 hits, so from my point of view, it makes no difference.
Either way my previous point was simply stating a fact, not an opinion. -
11-21-2013, 01:00 AMkukurumeiingenuity2+careful2 stops being 2 hits at 325 craft on one star.Quote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz
And you HQ twin, to avoid RNG. while people will think "Oh I just goto the 2star rotation thread"...please that's just armchairing. You get what you can when you are making a product that can lose you a lot of money, both either yourself or your customer.
Twin,spruce,darksteel is one of the easier stuff to HQ and used pretty much non stop, why wouldn't you want to HQ them, and you are being hypocritical in exact that, if you have enough craft to ingenuity2+careful2 (and most people CP up first on their accessories), why shouldn't you. You need about 350cp after food to do a full on 6xBT rotation with ingenuity2+careful at the end. It comes out exactly right.
And finally, any crafter would be ditching their NQ mats and only carry HQ mats around. They are easier to keep stocked, and sell. I never have NQ mats on me unless I can buy them.
Fact is you need 325 to go careful2. otherwise you go standard touch. 2 shotting twin is pure BS, unless you're hurting for skills and/or CP. neither should happen to any crafter doing 1star regularly.
The "fact" is simple in this case: 6x touch 1xGS-Blessing, and a synth.
at 10~15%HQ for 70/80, you need only 340CP to do a full on 5xBT to 100%. You can do that even without food! No HQ my rear. -
11-21-2013, 01:25 AMClassikalBolded is incorrect, you can do a 6 touch rotation with only 335 CP required, which is easily obtainable as I have 339 with only my accessories max-melded and 0 materia in my AF/offhand. I'm not quite sure what variation of skill combos you are using, but mine has been posted in 2 different threads on this forum.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
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11-21-2013, 02:35 AMkukurumeiI'm not calculating in comfort zone(which I use myself but is a non essential luxury). and add a safety wait in case "poor" pops up. If a poor pops up late in the game you will probably get 89~98% on the blessing (which may or may not be equalized with goods on other touches).Quote:
Originally Posted by Classikal
since you have 313 without any melds, you can hit 330 with just stone soup, and if your accessories are melding with cp (which pretty much is always first, because accessories are cross class), you end up with 350ish. -
11-21-2013, 03:08 AMClassikal
The only time "Poor" actually even affects me is if "Excellent" pops up when I need to hit Steady Hand II(which has only happened to me once so far and I still came out with 91%), any other time doesn't affect the rotation at all. If it pops on Great Strides, I just skip Great Strides and go straight to Byregot's Blessing.
I know about Stone Soup, I was using it before I fine-tuned this down to what it is now. I still keep it around just in case I want to upgrade the Standard Touch at the end into an Advanced Touch, but so far the current rotation has served me well as I have HQ'd every piece since I started doing 1-stars, and even got a cheap 2-star I was toying with to 100% with it. -
11-21-2013, 03:11 AMClassikal
I wouldn't really call Comfort Zone as non-essential as it's part of the equation of being able to not use food for this, w/o it I would need to use food.
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11-21-2013, 04:02 AMkukurumeiIt's pretty non essential, since it's a matter of melds or not meld first. The rub comes down to weather you're planing to use NQ or HQ mats for final sync.Quote:
Originally Posted by Classikal
With HQ(the "Easy" stuff) you can pretty much get away with a 70/80 with the below rotation, or some version of it, depending on your stats:
IQ->WN->SH2->5xBT -> GS->SH-> Ingenuty2->BB->careful2 to 100% ( IF for some reason it falls short, that's when CP goes up because you need to switch it to SH2->BT ->GS->Ing2 >BB->ST)
this should be doable with very little CP overhead, and most likely without food, and most likely doable as long as you got some HQ mats in the mix. It makes you a walking end game armory of sorts.
If you do need to NQ 100% a lot, then comfortzone immediately becomes a factor, from using expensive food. -
11-21-2013, 04:24 AMClassikal
Since I've started using the 335 CP rotation, I have used 0 HQ materials, I don't worry about them any more since I've been able to get 100% on 1-star with it very easily. And since I was able to get 100% on the Pineapple Juice synth I attempted 1st try with minimal effort, I almost certain I can do 2-star with the same rotation, as I am no where near the cap on Control since I have 0 melds in AF/offhands, I also still have the option to upgrade Standard Touch to Advanced Touch(if needed) using Stone Soup (or Frutementy if I finish my CP melds), or I could just use control food and keep using Standard Touch.
But if I was able to get it to 100% that time, I would think just full melding the AF with materia would be more than enough to solidify those results. -
11-21-2013, 04:39 AMkukurumeiOOORrrrr.... you can just meld your accessories, and just stick with no meld AF, and just raise to the craft requirement with food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Classikal
This means you can craft 2 stars in multi jobs at minimal cost -
11-21-2013, 04:52 AMOddI don't think you know what literally means, because that's not true at all. It's unlikely to fail with steady hand up, but certainly not impossible. I've had it happen many times before.Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguinmayhem
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11-21-2013, 04:57 AMClassikalThe thing is, melds are permanent, food is not, if you do it through food you have to keep replenishing your food. Once you get the melds in the AF, you don't have to re-get them unless you upgrade the gear.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
I can use food until I can complete the melds (if it's needed), but the melds should be the ultimate goal not the food. -
11-21-2013, 05:31 AMTeykosStandard and Basic SYNTHESIS (i.e. not Touch) are 90% success rate before Steady Hand. So no, Penguinmayhem is absolutely correct that they don't fail at all with Steady Hand up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd
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11-22-2013, 11:53 AMscarebearzBy "2 hits" I am of course talking about 2 skills used, i.e. making a twinthread in as little time as possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
Ing2 + CS2 = CS2 + CS2 in terms of the number of skills used.
I don't intent this to offend you, but the above information is of little use.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
With the right x-class skills and ok'ish gears you should never need to be using HQ mats to craft anything 1 star and under.
With reasonable gears + food, the same applies to 2 star crafts.
If your making stacks of HQ mats to use, then personally I think your wasting you time. :/ -
11-22-2013, 08:56 PMOddQuote:
Originally Posted by Teykos
90% + 20% does not equal 110%. When it comes to chance, there can't be a greater chance than 100%.
Either way, there must be a cap. I have failed on SYNTHESIS and TOUCH (both 90%) actions with steady hand up. Especially on my armorer for some reason. -
11-23-2013, 12:02 AMHECI've made thousands of crafts without failing this on me even once so unless you can prove this by screeshots and / or video I'll not trust your claim. There were couple more people here on forums as well as in game claimimg the same but never provided any actual prove of that so far ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd
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11-23-2013, 01:58 AMTeykosThis is a "screenshots or it didn't happen" type of claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd
People have macro commands set up for a 100% success rate HQ because the only abilities that can fail with Steady Hand II active are Rapid Synthesis and Hasty Touch. The only case I can see either Steady Hand "failing" is when the user failed to understand that every action you take will eat a turn of the buff, regardless of if the action uses durability, so someone who used Steady Hand and then spent 5 turns Observing just wasted the Steady Hand buff. -
11-23-2013, 03:52 AMkukurumeianyone who uses CS2+CS2 over ingenuity is....omg... the reduction in level applies pass just synth you know. Well i you got the stats for it, I guess...that's a lot of stats to waste a dura onQuote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz
And when you walk around, please walk around, you don't want to waste so much food, especially on 2 stars that come rarely.
Carring around HQ mats, anytime in any city you make a final product, you can probably do it without food, and for those of us who gil-pinch, you can do it on multiple craft jobs, by eating craftmenship food to get the proper level, without melding af.
This is why almost all crafters these days put CP+control on their accessories. If you can HQ a decent amount of mats beforehand(make the most use of that 30minutes), you simply need to job change to whatever recipe you need, and do a easy rotation with either craftmenship food or no food at all.
Careful syn2 is fairly good, but can be made with the same inguenity+Standard synth combo if it comes down to it. And for those moment of weakness when you forgot something advance synth is better anyway if you get a trick somewhere (safety measure in calculation) -
11-23-2013, 04:25 AMVortokBut dem HQ achievements. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by scarebearz
Personally I've started stocking up on HQ mats rather than NQ. For one, it takes a bit more time then quick synthing so it gives me something to do. Mainly though, I'm hoping they fix how overgeared we are for the current crafts and make HQ mats relevant and I'll thus be prepared (likely gonna work on capping my chest/offhands over the next month for something to do as well even though the stats gained are completely irrelevant right now). If they don't, I'm already bored with nothing interesting to craft anyway to it'd be time wasted either way, haha.
If I (or anyone) cared about profit right now then yeah, NQ mats are currently a waste of time once you're set up (and in all likelihood will remain that way post patch, unless we're lucky and get a crafter balance pass that hasn't been talked about at all). Profit isn't a major motivator for me, though it likely is for most people. -
11-23-2013, 09:57 AMscarebearzWe were talking about making NQ Twinthreads... both ways take the same number of button presses.Quote:
Originally Posted by kukurumei
If you want to bother making HQ 1 star mats, then sure Ing is better, but that is not my point.
lols maybe, I have them all for Weaver and GSM from making stuff to sell etc, can't be bothered to try getting them for the other 6 classes!Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortok
If someone wants to make a profit selling 1 star items and has most crafts at 50 personally I would aim for 297 Craft (no melding needed, assuming using all HQ af), 320+ Cont and 341 CP.
Then you can turn this into a 3 part macro:
CZ > IQ > CS II > WN > SH2 > Basic Touch x 5 > GS > SH > Ing > Std Touch > (end macro part 2 here, if Excellent just use BB and CS2 x2) > GS > Byregots > CS II x 2
Using all NQ mats and depending on your Cont you should HQ 1 star 80 dura items almost every time 99%+ anyway.
Should be easy enough to meld just CP and Cont to gears to have those stats without the use of food. -
11-30-2013, 12:12 PMOddQuote:
Originally Posted by Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by HEC
Here's for you naysayers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Teykos
http://i708.photobucket.com/albums/w...1321_34_29.png
IN YER FACE!! :p -
11-30-2013, 12:15 PMTeykosSteady Hand gives +20%.Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd
Basic Touch starts at 70%.
70% +20% = 90%.
And this is why we want screenshots.
Edit: In case it wasn't obvious, you were supposed to try to prove that Basic SYNTHESIS or Standard SYNTHESIS (90% base) + Steady Hand failed.
If you were trying to prove that a 90% Touch ability failed with Steady Hand up, the only Touch that qualifies is Advanced Touch. -
11-30-2013, 12:19 PMOdd
Oh wow I'm such a noob!
I have 5 crafts at 50, and all this time I thought all touch actions were 90% successful.
My humble apologies. :o -
11-30-2013, 12:23 PMTeykosI wish. :/Quote:
Originally Posted by Odd
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12-01-2013, 11:27 AMOoshima
I have all DoL to 50 and I only use CSII
CP is more impt for touches IMO.