Hello All. This is gonna be a long one. Also, disclaimer, no one knows so far how The crystal tower is going to work, if they have something like this already planned, awesome.
The current trend of the instanced dungeon with a set objective and time limit did exist in FFXI. In FFXI they were known as Assaults and were introduced in the 'Treasures of Aht Urgan' expansion.
One of these assaults was special. It is called "Nyzul Isle Investigation".
(this is mostly copied from a wiki, but edited to include only parts that would translate to FF14 most easily):
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Nyzul Isle Investigation incorporates a random progression of floors. The rules are as follows:
Buffs will wear upon entry, but unlike with regular battlefields, this does not mean it is Level Restricted in any way, thus a character at any job level may enter.
Tokens are earned from successful completion of this mission. The amount of Tokens earned is determined by how many floors are successfully cleared before exiting, and how high the floors were.
A single run through "Nyzul Isle Investigation" consists of progressing up through various floors.
How it Works:
In FFXI there were 100 floors. Every 5 floors was a save point, so for your next run, you could start at 1+(increment of 5) ie. 6,11,16.Quote:
Each floor has a random objective that must be completed before the party will be allowed the choice of moving on to the next floor, or exiting the Assault area.
The standard goal of this Assault is to progress through five of these floors within the time limit of 30 minutes, although the amount remains somewhat arbitrary and is not restricted to just five floors. If time permits the party can choose to try to complete more floors.
For FFXIV, there could be many more floors (500?), giving people grind able end game content that also has some bragging rights with it. With higher floors being more difficult than lower.
Every floor has a challenge that must be completed before you can advance.
Types of floor/challenge:
What you Get:Quote:
Lobby: This is floor 0, any party member can bring the group up to the highest floor they have cleared to. (This should promote some discussion within group as to where to go. Progress is only saved for the person who actually chooses the floor, as with current dungeon, people locked in bubble until every party member has loaded in.)
Eliminate all enemies: Kill everything.
Eliminate enemy leader: Kill the named monster, more powerful than normal trash, usually has a special ability or move set.
Eliminate specified enemy: One particular trash mob unlocks the floor, would show as level ?? rather than a number.
Eliminate specified enemies: A certain group of mobs would show level ?? and have to be killed. Such as drakes or colibri.
Activate all lamps: I wasn't a huge fan of these, but they were interesting.
This can mean one of three things:
There is only one lamp, and everyone needs to activate it.
There are multiple (2-4) lamps which must be activated at the same time.
There are multiple (2-4) lamps which must be activated in an unknown order. This is often the most difficult version, and good open lines of communication are essential.
Free Floor! There is no objective, can move on.
Boss Floor:
Every 50 floors is a boss floor, featuring a strong monster from elsewhere in the game, using the same mechanics, but at an easier (or stronger) difficulty.
Primals (Hellfire/Aerial Blast/Earthen Fury), Hydra, Chimera, King Tonberry, Anantaboga, Aiatar, Miser's Mistress, Batraal, Isgebind, Adjudicator, plus the other dungeon final bosses.
These boss fights would be tuned for a fight time that still allows people to clear 4 floors before reaching the boss. A 'boss' run would have most of its time aimed at the boss in theory.
This also allows for whole new floor designs with the new mechanics in the game
Perhaps a Tower defense style minigame floor where packs of mobs run past cannons?
Quote:
Assuming a 90 min dungeon. A typical group should clear 15 floors per run.
10 Tomes of Philo per floor cleared in a run floors 1-250.
2 Tomes of Myth per floor cleared in a run floors 1-250.
12 Philo/4 Myth per 251-500.
Sidegrade Gear from the bosses every 50 floors.
Pros
Quote:
Reuses current game models, and content in an interesting way.
Creates dynamic content that is 'new' every run.
Already has years of play testing and community feedback.
Gives us more things to do.
Allows elitists to have a new measure of success.
Allows a faster group to have a greater reward rather than just more runs in less time.
Might make people never run AK or WP again.
Less overall runs required to cap tomes.
Cons
Quote:
People abusing other players in the floor climb system(rushing to the floor selector)
People are dumb and cant do lamps.
Development time to adapt coding.
Development time for new artwork and map layouts for floors.
Development time to add lore behind this dungeon.
Development time to ballance difficulty curve to match floor number.
Development time to rebalace old dungeon bosses for lv50/iLevel60+ players.
LOL-FFXI-ROSE-COLORED-NOSTALGIA-GLASSES
One more thing for people to shout Relic+1/DL Only in Mor Dohna.
TL : DR
Nyzul Isle provides randomized endgame content to break up the monotony of AK/WP runs, while adding bragging rights as well as a decent reward.
Something from FFXI I would like to see in FFXIV. Nyzul Isle
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11-07-2013, 12:14 AMKazamotoSomething from FFXI I would like to see in FFXIV. Nyzul Isle
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11-07-2013, 12:15 AMArkune
didnt you posted that into my thread before too haha :D?
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11-07-2013, 12:33 AMDale
There is a lot from Final Fantasy 11 I would like to see in this game.
It's a real shame SE decided to use World of Warcraft instead of Final Fantasy 11 as its standard. Because I do think this would be a better game if it had chose to build and improve upon the latter. -
11-07-2013, 12:37 AMKazamotoI posted that I would like this feature in a few places, but didn't flesh it out much and I think it's good enough to warrant its own thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkune
WoW has the market share unfortunately. But I do think there are things FFXI that could be adapted, this is one example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
VVV
See disclaimer at top.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
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11-07-2013, 12:41 AMLord_ZlatanAgreed, but I also think they are using the WoW shell, and will implement other things/better content (not that i am complaining AT ALL) into the game. Nyzul Isle was intense. I would love to see that come in some way shape or form into this game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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11-07-2013, 12:42 AMAndrien
Crystal Tower.
Please look forward to it.
http://imageshack.com/a/img855/476/3xyi.jpg
http://imageshack.com/scaled/640x480/842/x96y.jpg -
11-07-2013, 01:48 AMBizniztyme
Nyzule was definitely one of the better things FFXI had, hope CT is something like that but more fleshed out like having a more fun bosses on each floor, puzzles you have to figure out, etc etc. The RNG is NYZULE is atrocious with the lamps so that needs to go. lol
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11-07-2013, 01:49 AMSteeled
A randomized maze is a fine concept but Nyzul had a few flaws, and NNI was worse.
I dread Order-lamps ever returning. They weren't remotely hard if people listened, so 60% of the time they were obscenely hard. -
11-07-2013, 01:54 AMArgent_WingsNot everything about WoW was inferior. Pre-WotLK Naxxramas and Karazhan were excellent raid designs I'd like to see emulated in FF14.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
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11-07-2013, 01:58 AMLord_ZlatanDoes Crystal Tower have any relation to Nyzul Isle type content? Im not being a jerk, I'm genuinely asking. It doesn't seam to me that there is any relation, unless I missed something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
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11-07-2013, 01:59 AMSeraphiIt's not hard to understand why, especially when the main goal of bringing FFXIV back was to recoup the losses from the original release.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale
600k peak subscribers (FFXI) vs 12 million peak subscribers (WoW).
The landscape of MMO's has changed in the 12 years FFXI has been out. I loved FFXI back in the day, but there's no denying that it was a niche game for the extremely dedicated. In 2013, most gamers don't want games like that anymore, unfortunately.
That said, there's nothing saying SE can't implement fun and unique features FFXI had wrapped in the "WoW shell". -
11-07-2013, 02:02 AMElkwood
This is somewhat already in Game Hi Crystal Tower and Binding Coil
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11-07-2013, 02:07 AMLord_ZlatanSomewhat, but not nearly the extent of Nyzul in XI (granted, Nyzul Isle come out almost 4-5 years after initial release IIRC).Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkwood
But I would like someone to clarify, how does Crystal Tower relate to Nyzul in any way ? Im not trying to troll, I legitimately feel like I missed something -
11-07-2013, 02:19 AMSynMaris
Nyzul Isle was one of the things I really enjoyed about XI, I am hoping CT is similar, but with the 24 man requirement I don't know how interested I am in it, I don't want it to go back to the days of Dynamis 24+ people and 2 pieces of gear...
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11-07-2013, 02:25 AMKazamoto
This guy gets it.
VVV -
11-07-2013, 02:50 AMDaragustThis really isn't true. From what we have heard about CT/Coil they will be endgame raid tuned dungeons that will gain more content every other patch. There is nothing randomly generated about them and they both have a week long lockout.Quote:
Originally Posted by Elkwood
By contrast, as described by the OP, this would be something we could do as frequently as we like, that would have random layouts generated each run. The rng alone would set it apart from anything currently in game and based on what we currently know, from BC and CT. -
11-07-2013, 03:22 AMAndrienShould be similar to Final Fantasy III Crystal Tower which is the very last dungeon in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Zlatan
Expect Cloud of Darkness, Amon, Gilgamesh, and more to be in it. -
11-07-2013, 03:36 AMKazamotoWhich is great for a weekly raid, as BC is, but are we only supposed to play ffxiv one day a week?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
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11-07-2013, 03:42 AMNaharaI think as much as I would like to agree with this, and I kinda do, I don't know if Crystal Tower will be exactly as people wanting the return of Nyzul Isle to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
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11-07-2013, 03:44 AMTazo
I remember not running Nyzul Isle too much. Wasn't the gear it drops only second/third best to other gears you can acquire from lets say limbus/sea, camping?
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11-07-2013, 03:46 AMAndrienI don't see a lot of people wanting Nyzul Isle to return, but for the people that do, I think they should try out CT first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nahara
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11-07-2013, 03:52 AMMachazareelIt also had quested weaponskills and was involved in the quests for Mythic Weapons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazo
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11-07-2013, 03:52 AMBillzey
Salvage > Nyzul.
Salvage is probably one of the most enjoyable events I've ever experienced in a MMO. It required pure skill simply b/c gear was literally removed on entry. It didn't matter how good your gear was, at least until higher floors. The only thing that mattered was how good you were at your job.
All MMOs are ridiculously easy if you consider the actual skill/effort you have to use in manipulating your character. They have to be or nobody would ever get anything done in a party. Salvage was one of the few events where, if you were on top of your game (along with everyone else), you could clear more NMs and have a better chance at getting gear.
Essentially, timed based events w/o a major gear check are the most entertaining for me, not because I dislike farming gear, but because I'd rather be judged on skill than gear. -
11-07-2013, 03:55 AMKazamotoSome of the gear was very good, some was meh. It was a alot of side grades, but it was much easier to get than other gear. It was more casual.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazo
And do Crystal Tower we shall. But I think even you would admit there is a difference between a 4-man, randomly generated, spam-able dungeon, and a 24-man, structured, weekly dungeon?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
Yup, Nyzul was used for a bunch of things, but I dont know if that has to be the case again. If we are meant to spam dungeons for Philo and Myth, I just wish we had more variety. Rarely did two nyzul runs go the same way, even though the rules going in were always the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Machazareel
Salvage was also awesome content, and I wouldn't mind an adapted version of it as well, but salvage is large group content like crystal tower and binding coil, I am more interested in having content added for small groups and casual play throughs that still benefit the elite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Billzey
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11-07-2013, 04:00 AMDoki
http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/upl...hat-no-gif.gif
I hated Nyzul Isle. We suffer enough as it is from the random number generator without having to put up with Nyzul's level of BS. -
11-07-2013, 04:01 AMTazoWhich are worse than Relics for like 85% of the jobs. Why sink time in to something that is going to produce only 2nd rate gear? /mehQuote:
Originally Posted by Machazareel
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11-07-2013, 04:47 AMKazamotoYou sound like someone who had a run with 3 lamp floors :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Doki
In the OP I made no mention of myth weapons, or weapon skills.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tazo
I suggested that this dungeon would award a number of tomes per floor completed within the time limit instead.
Obviously every facet would not survive the translation to FFXIV.
But the CORE CONCEPT of the dungeon, featuring randomized objectives, enemies, and floor maps would add some spice to the current CM/AK/WP/Prae grind. -
11-09-2013, 05:21 AMKazamoto
up/4/great/justice/and/debate
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11-09-2013, 05:30 AMTiggy
I would love something with randomized content. Keeps people coming back to see what happens, and ends this "boss dance" routine we are all doing.