One/more Guys Greed?

I have noticed as of late, that there is a lot of FC's and LS's that have a leader in them or maybe a few leader's. These leader's have caught my attention, not because they are good or bad, but because they are selfish and greedy to the point where they are practically (whiplashing) the player like a slave driver till they get what they want from the HM or Bahamut. After they get what they want, they can care less for what the player that helped them want's. I have seen a lot of this, and I will have to say that if you have an FC or LS and run it like this, I promise you it will fall apart quickly, and your FC will die out. Then, everyone will know you as the FC or LS that does not care.

What do you mean? Like leaders saying 'lets do one more garuda or you're getting kicked!' or is it like 'please pass for x player if y drops'?

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Originally Posted by ChrysaorUSon

Leader's that think of themselves and not other's. The ones that get what they want and leave the rest out, or are like, "Screw it idc about him, even though he did help me."

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I see. Haven't seen too much of this myself, I imagine that environment wouldn't last very long unless the 'leader' has a clique they run with.

Leader's that think of themselves and not other's. The ones that get what they want and leave the rest out, or are like, "Screw it idc about him, even though he did help me."

Unfortunatly I see a lot of greed. I haven't been able to do HM's or anything of the sorts. But once every 3 dungeons I encounter 1 ass that needs cause he can. Heey, I don't need this, but since I can need it anyways i will win this item, so I take it regardless.

It's not can care less, it's couldn't care less. Sorry, pet peeve that phrase.

Anyway, I think you might have just had bad luck with your FC if I'm honest. I've been apart of two different FCs so far. The first was totally laid back and the leader just pretty much let us do whatever we wanted (was more like a linkshell than an FC to be honest.) The second, and one I'm part of now, is much more organised, but there are no signs of the behaviour you've described. In fact our higher levelled more experienced players actually help the lower levelled guys out more than they get help themselves; running the story dungeons with them etc.

So yeah, of course it happens, but I'd like to think it's not as common as you say it is.

On Midgard I hate to say it, but it is very common. It might not be common on your server, but be common on other's.

I dont know about the FC or LS leaders but just ppl in general are very greedy. I have done so much Titan HM runs for people that need the relic and everytime the Titan drop is the job they are playing they will NEED even so they are getting a relic.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I dont know about the FC or LS leaders but just ppl in general are very greedy. I have done so much Titan HM runs for people that need the relic and everytime the Titan drop is the job they are playing they will NEED even so they are getting a relic.

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I feel kinda bad now, because if that axe drops... lets just say I don't think I'll use relic too much if I ever get it. (either xD)

Sticking to the rules set by the game (for the most part) is the best way to do things. My FC generally stick with need if you can need it and greed if you can greed it. Courtesy is usually given to those who are greeding for a class they aren't on when there is no one else who needs it.

If your FC isn't letting you roll need on lots, that's one thing, but if you are just getting beaten on lots for a job you aren't on, then you just have to keep trying or ask your friends if they will let you greed something that you need if it drops. Do this before you enter the dungeon so they know ahead of time what gear you are after.

Edit:

Also I have been known to "need" things on principal, when I know there is no one else there who can truly benefit from the item. A good example was Titan's axe, which dropped on my warrior Titan win. Did I need it? Yes.

But, I checked with the group before hand and there was no one who even played Warrior that didn't already have something better, and it was my first win after many failures so I felt like I deserved the souvenir. Ended up being a blessing, because it took me a while to get the tomes for my relic and in that time I ended up using it to help with many Garudas and Titans.

Another example is Garuda's talons which only dropped for me after I completed my Spharai +1. After 100s of Garuda wins. Same situation. No one needed it, so I took it on principle and in defiance of this game's sometimes brutal RNG.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I have done so much Titan HM runs for people that need the relic and everytime the Titan drop is the job they are playing they will NEED even so they are getting a relic.

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I agree its completely selfish in dungeons for armor pieces since they probably already have AK / DL gear, if not better. But when it comes to Primals weapons i kinda understand it.
Let me explain.

I have a Thyrus+1 on my WHM but if i run Titan again and WHM weapon drops ill need it for sure.
Not because im thinking "LELZ IM NEEDING JUST BECUZ I CAN AND YUS IM A D!CK".

No.
ill need because:
1. Theyre iconic and rare ( Titan weapons at least ).
2. I have Ifrit and Garuda WHM weapons and then ill have all of the Primals WHM weapons.
3. For vanity slots, if it is extended to weapons aswell that is. But in doubt, ill just roll need.

People are probably needing on Primals weapons for the same reasons more than just to be a jerk.

It's not a FFXIV problem it is a humanity problem. All humans do this at one point or at all times, and if you say you don't do it you are greedy and also a liar.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

I agree its completely selfish in dungeons for armor pieces since they probably already have AK / DL gear, if not better. But when it comes to Primals weapons i kinda understand it.
Let me explain.

I have a Thyrus+1 on my WHM but if i run Titan again and WHM weapon drops ill need it for sure.
Not because im thinking "LELZ IM NEEDING JUST BECUZ I CAN AND YUS IM A D!CK".

No.
ill need because:
1. Theyre iconic and rare ( Titan weapons at least ).
2. I have Ifrit and Garuda WHM weapons and then ill have all of the Primals WHM weapons.
3. For vanity slots, if it is be extended to weapons aswell that is. But in doubt, ill just roll need.

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That I understand since you are helping and want a weapon (doesn't matter which one), what get me mad are people that are already getting something out of the fight (the relic weapon) and on top of that they need the titan drop. I won't really care if they greeded and fight for the drop like everyone else.

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Originally Posted by Norack

It's not a FFXIV problem it is a humanity problem. All humans do this at one point or at all times, and if you say you don't do it you are greedy and also a liar.

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All humans at some point will take something they don't need when they're right next to someone who clearly does need it? Sorry, I haven't done this and I'm not a liar. If someone tells me "I need this." and they clearly do need it (it's a need not a want) and I myself am not in need of said item/thing. I'm not going to take it. I've bought groceries, walked out of the grocery store, saw someone who was homeless and gave them some of the food I paid for.

Final Fantasy example. I want demarogue ring for my summoner. Any group I'm in I ask if anyone doesn't need it if I can have it. If I see a blackmage/summoner in my group that doesn't have it I don't bother asking them to pass on it. They are actively playing a class that is in need of said ring. I am not going to ask them to pass on something they will actively be using. In fact, if I am in a group on said summoner and see a bm/summoner I ask "Is this your main class?" If they say yes and they don't have the ring. I won't even need roll on it.

I've come across these guilds before. They talk the talk about helping everyone out but if they are not getting something out of it, or don't need it themselves they rarely offer help. That or they run with the same group for progression and everyone else is left to fend for themselves.

However it has been a long time since I've been in a guild like that. :)

As long as I won't be shamed, I'll get what I can.

And no, I'll not roll. If you really want it, you can wait three minutes.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I have done so much Titan HM runs for people that need the relic and everytime the Titan drop is the job they are playing they will NEED even so they are getting a relic.

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Sorry, it might just be me here, but what is wrong with that? If it's the job they are playing as, why wouldn't they need it?

I've got my relic, but I still often use my Ifrit and Titan weapons too. And have done many runs of Garuda to attempt to get that weapon too.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Sorry, it might just be me here, but what is wrong with that? If it's the job they are playing as, why wouldn't they need it?

I've got my relic, but I still often use my Ifrit and Titan weapons too. And have done many runs of Garuda to attempt to get that weapon too.

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Nothing wrong just saying you are greedy. There are other 7 people with you some getting relic and others that want a chance to get a weapon but since you need it they get absolutely nothing out of the fight. Like i said I don't mind if the greed and fight for it with everyone else, but need it when you are getting a relic is just greedy in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

Nothing wrong just saying you are greedy. There are other 7 people with you some getting relic and others that want a chance to get a weapon but since you need it they get absolutely nothing out of the fight. Like i said I don't mind if the greed and fight for it with everyone else, but need it when you are getting a relic is just greedy in my opinion.

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I wrote a longer reply, but I just can't be bothered. No, it's not greedy. I'm a White Mage, so I will take White Mage weapon. The same way I wouldn't expect the Paladin or Dragoon to give me his weapon. If you don't get that I just guess you don't understand the job system too well.

EDIT: Just looked at your signature and you're basically level 50 everything. You realise not everyone is like that don't you? So you're expecting me to give my weapon to someone who may not have ever even have played as a WHM, let alone be level 50.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Cut it out b/c character limit.

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You are missing my point, it doesn't matter the job system or need/greed/pass system. In Titan HM (thats the example i been using) some people do it to get theirs relic weapon while others like me help on the fight to get a chance to get a titan weapon. After the win, the people that are doing it for the relic are already getting a reward(a relic weapon after the 900 tomes they need) but the others are waiting to see if they can get a titan weapon. For me you are greedy if you roll need on titan weapon if you are already getting a relic. If you are there for the titan weapon roll need i dont mind. If you are getting a relic and want the titan weapon, roll greed and fight for it with everyone else.

EDIT: I know not everyone is 50 on all jobs but for some of us we go to those fight to gear those jobs that are 50 and seeing people need on a weapon they probably wont use since they getting relic is really a shame and I see them as greedy people.

Rudeness in the Extreme: a Relic/Relic+1 who is in Ifrit HM and (if there is another of their class) roll NEED on their class item when the other person has a weapon worse than Ifrit's....

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Originally Posted by Reslin

All humans at some point will take something they don't need when they're right next to someone who clearly does need it? Sorry, I haven't done this and I'm not a liar. If someone tells me "I need this." and they clearly do need it (it's a need not a want) and I myself am not in need of said item/thing. I'm not going to take it. I've bought groceries, walked out of the grocery store, saw someone who was homeless and gave them some of the food I paid for.

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Sorry but one example out of your life isn't going to cut it. Unless u give me the minutes of your entire life and let people parse it you have no case.

I have done good things in my life to, does that make me an angel?

If a mass murderer gives a homeless person something to eat, should he be immediately forgiven and revered as a good person?

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

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Who says they won't use it? How do you know? I use my Ifrit and Titan weapons just as much as my Relic. Plus you're saying it's greedy to want a relic and primal weapon...when that's the exact reason you're there. If you already have a Relic (or a +1 I'm guessing) why do you need a primal weapon? The person on their relic quest can use that weapon to get their 900 tomes quicker, what are you using it for? You are in fact the one who will probably never use it, not them.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

Who says they won't use it? How do you know? I use my Ifrit and Titan weapons just as much as my Relic. Plus you're saying it's greedy to want a relic and primal weapon...when that's the exact reason you're there. If you already have a Relic (or a +1 I'm guessing) why do you need a primal weapon? The person on their relic quest can use that weapon to get their 900 tomes quicker, what are you using it for? You are in fact the one who will probably never use it, not them.

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I dont even need on titan fights because i allways go as WHM and I have a relic+1. Also I say probably wont use it. So now i'm the greedy because i can't gear my other 50s with titan weapons because the people that are getting a relic wont let me even a chance to get the drop.

I like to get the primal weapons if I can, I have the Relic+1, I just want them for future vanity slots, BUT, if someone actually needs it as an upgrade I will gladly pass.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I dont even need on titan fights because i allways go as WHM and I have a relic+1. Also I say probably wont use it. So now i'm the greedy because i can't gear my other 50s with titan weapons because the people that are getting a relic wont let me even a chance to get the drop.

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Just fyi, Garuda weps are equal to the titan ones, save for slightly different stats (teensy bit more parry, determ, and earth resis on titan, wind resist, skill speed and faster auto attack on garuda) that don't really matter that much. (ruda ones actually sell to an npc for more, which is crazy) Can't we all agree we want Titan weps because they look bada**?

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Originally Posted by Nowhere2Be

I like to get the primal weapons if I can, I have the Relic+1, I just want them for future vanity slots, BUT, if someone actually needs it as an upgrade I will gladly pass.

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Same, I won't even roll greed if someone pipes up and says they need it for an alt, even though I kinda do too because I have nearly all jobs up and mainly using ltn weps for all but two. If they're bold enough to say they need it, they'll most likely use it more than I would.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I dont even need on titan fights because i allways go as WHM and I have a relic+1. Also I say probably wont use it. So now i'm the greedy because i can't gear my other 50s with titan weapons because the people that are getting a relic wont let me even a chance to get the drop.

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Ridiculous hypocrisy. You want the Titan weapons? Then actually earn them in the class you're getting them for. I assumed all this time you meant you had lost out to other WHMs (or whatever class you are) but instead you're just collecting the weapons for classes you're not even playing. They deserve the relic/primal weapon combo just as much as you do. If not more so as they are actually playing that class.

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Originally Posted by Myrhn

I dont even need on titan fights because i allways go as WHM and I have a relic+1. Also I say probably wont use it. So now i'm the greedy because i can't gear my other 50s with titan weapons because the people that are getting a relic wont let me even a chance to get the drop.

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Really? You have a chance to get a drop but you lose for whatever reason or some one needs on it. So basicly you DONT want to wait, you want it NOW. Im sorry in regards to primal weapons some if not a lot of players collect them. The yare doing nothing wrong by needed, they are doing nothing wrong by greeding. Now lets see there are 3 other primals so... why dont you split your time up and farm those as well? It is not greed because those players need on something regardless if they use it or not, some collect them and I dont see an issue with that. Also if you dont have the job leveled or if it is not 50 why the hell are you crying about it?

you dont have to justify rolling greed. if the option is there, take it. by that same token, people shouldn't be dicks and roll need on something unless they "actually" need it. if you just plan on turning it in for seals or spiritbonding it then be nice guy and let someone who will actually use it as an upgrade have it. other than that, its free game. the only advice i can give is dont rely on the DF to get loot, if you are in a DF group just expect people to need on stuff cuz they can not because they need

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Originally Posted by Norack

Sorry but one example out of your life isn't going to cut it. Unless u give me the minutes of your entire life and let people parse it you have no case.

I have done good things in my life to, does that make me an angel?

If a mass murderer gives a homeless person something to eat, should he be immediately forgiven and revered as a good person?

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I'm no angel but at the same time I don't take something someone else needs. Sorry sounds like a case of "I'm greedy so I'm going to automatically assume that everyone is like me because it's an easy way to justify my behavior." You do realize that sociopaths/psychopaths have used "Human nature." as a justification throughout history, right? Even going as far as to claim that everyone is just like them. I'm done here I'm not going to go off topic with an argument over this.

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Originally Posted by TeganLaron

I use my Ifrit and Titan weapons just as much as my Relic.

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You use your Ifrit weapon over your Relic weapon, for the same job?

If anyone actually acts surprised that some people start up FC/LS's just to get what they want out of the game, that's sad lol Thankfully, my FC are guys I ran with during 1.0 and we try to always maintain a fair system for need/greed things. But there will always be those guys who will manipulate others into getting them what they want, people just have to recognize it and decide if they're ok with being used. Some people are.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

I agree its completely selfish in dungeons for armor pieces since they probably already have AK / DL gear, if not better. But when it comes to Primals weapons i kinda understand it.
Let me explain.

I have a Thyrus+1 on my WHM but if i run Titan again and WHM weapon drops ill need it for sure.
Not because im thinking "LELZ IM NEEDING JUST BECUZ I CAN AND YUS IM A D!CK".

No.
ill need because:
1. Theyre iconic and rare ( Titan weapons at least ).
2. I have Ifrit and Garuda WHM weapons and then ill have all of the Primals WHM weapons.
3. For vanity slots, if it is extended to weapons aswell that is. But in doubt, ill just roll need.

People are probably needing on Primals weapons for the same reasons more than just to be a jerk.

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I roll on items I don't really *need* for the same reasons as you. But I roll "greed", not "need" since it's what it is. If the item is better than what I have, i roll need, if not, i roll greed, period.

As for people forming FCs to satisfy their own selfish wants/needs, I can't say I'm surprised. What would surprise me is if said FCs worked out.

yep just greedy people but that's the world be live in today, everyone is greedy (generalization so not literally everyone) i mean there is a thread about how they don't wanna help lower lvls because they get nothing for it.

1. If you want titan weapons for your other jobs especially using duty finder, queue titan with the job that you want the weapon for.

2. If you use your Relic+1 class to "help" others with titan, make it known of your wants BEFORE queuing. Only proceed with the fight when everyone agreed with your terms and conditions. Leave the team if someone disagrees with you. Dont whine about it if you start the fight assuming everyone is agreeable with your conditional help only to get outrolled by "need roll".

3. Form your regular 8 man team until you get all the weapons you want.

I helped with primals alot, i dont whine when players i helped roll need on weapons which they will be getting the relic next. Why? Because its unconditional help and i am not helping with the INTENT of getting other jobs weapon.

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Originally Posted by ChrysaorUSon

I have noticed as of late, that there is a lot of FC's and LS's that have a leader in them or maybe a few leader's. These leader's have caught my attention, not because they are good or bad, but because they are selfish and greedy to the point where they are practically (whiplashing) the player like a slave driver till they get what they want from the HM or Bahamut. After they get what they want, they can care less for what the player that helped them want's. I have seen a lot of this, and I will have to say that if you have an FC or LS and run it like this, I promise you it will fall apart quickly, and your FC will die out. Then, everyone will know you as the FC or LS that does not care.

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Yeah... That's they way it's always been and always will be with the vast majority of LS's/FC's/Guilds or whatever. The sad part is, more often than not, those kinds of groups come to power and stay in power even though they constantly screw over their members and "use" them to get what they want.

I wonder how many more threads this OP will be posting about the same or similar issues instead of just sticking to his first original topic..