Well, this is cause for unease. I really feel to make combat more enjoyable is to enhance this portion of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui
What are some of your ideas for it? This is just a thread I wanted to start brainstorming about how they should go about reworking these. I will post my own thoughts and suggestions here as well.
I'll make a collection of these ideas on the first post as they are made that I feel are worth mention alongside my own thoughts.
Please feel free to comment, add, like, etc. =)
Ideas:
1) Introduction of some form of Limit Break (possibly stack-able with other breaks)
2) Different regimens formed due to different combat factors such as:
2a) Combination of different class abilities
2b) Number of abilities in a chain/stack
2c) Amount of TP/MP consumption (stronger abilities/magic causing more damage, etc)
2d) Mob type (think FFX with magical beasts or hard shelled ones)
2e) Targeted portion of mobs for incapacitation (Implementation of noticeable pop up or a physical change on the mob model indicating incapacitation.)
3) A prompt for the regimens as the abilities become available for them
(Example: Instead of hitting a button, stacking an ability or spell, and waiting for everyone else before releasing it manually; everyone needs to press the button for the regimen, then once all that are eligible for that regimen have selected, the regimen is automatically performed. Depending on the group, abilities equipped, mob type, etc...different regimens would be available to use. By pressing this button however, it does not stop you from continuing combat before the regimen is performed. However, if conditions alter before all have selected the button, the regimen will fail. Factors such as: Lack of TP, Lack of MP, Party Member Death, etc could cause the Regimen to fail. All conditions must be met, but if they are not it doesn't alter the fight too much because people are not waiting around for people to stack their abilities like the current system.)
4) Visual effects for each regimen that make them unique looking
5) Combinations that characterize both melee & magic, melee & melee, and magic & magic varieties
7) Possibilities of regimens that not only effect the enemy, but could detriment or enhance the party's position in combat
(Example: A powerful regimen that levels the mob, but leaves players bound for a short time, or a less potent regimen on the enemy, but grants a boost or buff to the party.)
[dev1058][dev1030][dev1033] Battle Regimens
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05-23-2011, 06:36 PMEldaena[dev1058][dev1030][dev1033] Battle Regimens
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05-23-2011, 06:51 PMIssachar
Pretty solid ideas, but at the same time, there's no real need to make the new BR needlessly complex (like amount of TP/MP used when factoring in other things besides damage.) You're on the right track, but keep in mind that a puzzle with too many pieces is likely to be passed over for an easier puzzle.
Anyways, I can understand why it got put in a lower priority brackes. BR, in itself, is functional and valid as-is. Other stuff that is genuinely broken (like Farshot) or moot (like party strategy and roles) should be focused on first.
Anyways, +1'd. -
05-23-2011, 06:53 PMEldaenaWell what I meant for things like TP and MP consumption is when a weaponskill takes like all TP or 2000 or so. Then with magic like ancient magic or shadowsear or something. More powerful abilities used for a regimen makes overall more powerful regimens? =p I guess I should have worded it better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Issachar
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05-23-2011, 06:57 PMIssacharKinda like how it is at the moment when you use Doomspike II at 3000TP instead of 2000TP. I get what you mean now, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eldaena
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05-23-2011, 06:58 PMEldaenaRight. ^-^Quote:
Originally Posted by Issachar
I know it's a bit complicated in text, but I think it would be easier to actually see something like this in game. It would just sort of 'make sense' I guess. =p -
05-23-2011, 11:10 PMEldaena
I think I hit all the correct dev tags?
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05-24-2011, 02:33 AMTeknoman
Just a little side note: Please implement some sort of noticeable pop up for incapacitation, or at least change the enemy model to where you know exactly what was incapacitated at the time.
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05-24-2011, 07:07 AMEldaenaAdded. ^-^ Thanks for your thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teknoman
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05-25-2011, 08:28 AMEldaena
When I speak of visual effects for each specific regimen, I mean I would like things that are similar to the opening movie battle sequence with the Marlboro. Having a conjurer cast fire II and an archer casting puncture II, or something to that extent, causing a sequence with a flaming arrow. It would really make players feel more immersed and involved in combat together with things like this.
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05-25-2011, 05:30 PMEldaena
I didn't play final fantasy xi, but was it true that the 'limit breaks' of that game were 2hour long abilities? What sort of abilities were they?
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05-25-2011, 06:47 PMJunpei
they werent limit breaks per say. Each Job had an ability with a 2 hour cool down. they all lasted 30s to 1 minute, i forget...
Warrior - Might Strikes - all hits are critical
Black Mage - Manafont - 0 mp cost
white made - benediction - all party HP restores to full, LOTS OF HATE on this :O
red mage - Chainspell - no casting times
Thief - perfect dodge - evade all attacks
monk - 100 fists - no cool down on auto attack,just keeps going and going
Paladin - invincible - guess?
ninja - mijin gakure - suicide + explosion
and other cool things :)
Also, FFXI did have TP aswell, but it was on a different scale.
Max TP was 300%, most normal attacks would generate 8-13% depending on what type of weapon you used. and a Weaponskill would require at least 100% but would be more powerfull if you let TP fill up.
There was system where some weapon skills could be chained together. For example, a warrior using "fast blade" followed by somebody else using "burning blade" would create an effect similar to a regimen, a big burst of damage would follow. a well time mage who cast the right spell could also perform a "magic burst" where the spell damage could be multiple 2 or 3 times its normal power.
There was no system for stacking the commands either, it was just well timed abilities! it didnt interupt the flow of combat and you could simply notice somebody else using an ability and chain one off for a damage bonus. although pre-planning was normally used to get massive effect out of it
THUS ENDS MY WALL OF TEXT! -
05-25-2011, 07:15 PMEldaena
Realistically it sounds like making chains work did take some skill in XI, but I think if they implemented something like that in FFXIV people would complain that it is too hard or it would favor certain classes due to certain regimens.
I would hope that even if visually the regimens would look different due to the abilities used, that they would have similar or equally strong effects in this game And perhaps the power of the regimens are increased by the number of abilities used, rather than which ones are used per class. -
05-25-2011, 07:16 PMEldaena
As for a limit break, I think instead of having like 2 hour cool downs, maybe they can have something that you can do only if you have 3000 TP, then it still has a cooldown after use, but not as long as 2 hours. Maybe like 10 minutes or something?
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05-26-2011, 07:19 PMEldaena
*sniffle* no more feedback? ='(
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05-28-2011, 06:40 PMAmineri
I think that Battle Regimens will be changing a bit, implicitly, through the rest of the battle system changing. I'm still trying to imagine how it's going to work with the stamina bar gone.
That said, I have a few suggestions that seem like they would be fairly minor (small enough to implemented soon?) yet may have a big impact.
Allow Auto-attacking to continue while a Battle Regimen is queued up.
I think that one of the biggest deterrents to performing a Battle Regimen is waiting around while the rest of your party gets their actions queued up. For example, I queue Twisting Vice, and sit there for 6 seconds while my duoing partner activate Ferocity, Bloodletter, etc, powering up his weaponskill before adding it to the chain. It makes sense for him to power up, but ... well... it just feels boring sitting there doing nothing while it happens. Better timing / communication, blah blah, I still think that keeping AA going while the BR is chained would be nice.
Better feedback as to the results of a Battle Regimen.
The four battle regimen combos that inflict status effect -- the on-screen feedback that something has happened is FAAAAR too weak. Either trying to catch the name of the Regimen in the torrent of battle text, or noticing the tiny little new status effect icon on the enemy. Compare that to the "Light Party" / "Full Party" effects. Have some flashier on the screen to reward players for completing the regimen and give more clear feedback that the regimen effect took place.
As to the "power-up" regimens. Provide some clear on-screen feedback as to how the regimen is affecting your attack. If we correctly chain four weaponskills / spells from different classes so that my weaponskill is powered up by +250%, PUT A BIG +250% IN NEON LETTERS ABOVE MY CHARACTER'S HEAD. Some fancy and classy, ala FFVII-IX battle effects. The point is to visually reward the player for the teamwork, as well as to provide solid feedback as to what the regimen did. My original though on this was the big-scale, five minute summoning type quasi-cutscenes from earlier FF titles, but I realized that it need to not be so time-consuming to make it a chore to wade through the animations.
That is all for now ... :)