Monk Skill Speed Vs Crit and DT

Does anyone have a resource of where Skill Speed basically provides so much skill speed reduction at X level and so much at y level?

I'm trying to find the magic number where you need to put so much into it to reach the next bracket that its more valuable to invest in crit or determination.

Alternately does anyone have an optimal number for all stats? Str, Crit, Skill Speed, Det?

Thanks in advance ^_^

Don't even look at stats until you're 50, then just go with higher ilvl until you can choose between the two i90 sets. People say 491 to get 6 skills in a rotation. I think that's silly. I think skill speed is a rather poor stat. I don't have any exact numbers of when it starts being bad, honestly it depends on the fight and party make up. Fights with little down time, a lot of aoe, and no bard Tp song make skill speed a terrible stat. You want close to 0. Fights with the opposite of those make it better, along the lines being on par with crit. The only magic number worth worrying about is accuracy. Get to the cap of whichever content you are on and then avoid gear that gives additional accuracy.

tl;dr - Plan around accuracy cap and don't get more than a few pieces of gear with skill speed.

I stack skill speed and I have 0 TP issues. You need to manage your TP very strictly if you are going for skill speed stack build. I like it. A lot don't. Crit is fine, but in my opinion monks get too much free crit from IR, BS, and TS that I find it redundant to stack. The skill speed has more uses as once you hit the 491 gate, you can start using true strike again without losing your twin snakes buff.

STR > Accuracy (to 420) > Det > Crit > Skill Speed

The amount of DPS increase you get per point of Skill Speed is vastly lower than Det and Crit. I would say 420-440 Skill Speed is plenty.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

I stack skill speed and I have 0 TP issues. You need to manage your TP very strictly if you are going for skill speed stack build. I like it. A lot don't. Crit is fine, but in my opinion monks get too much free crit from IR, BS, and TS that I find it redundant to stack. The skill speed has more uses as once you hit the 491 gate, you can start using true strike again without losing your twin snakes buff.

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TP is only a 25% increase, so unless you already have a >75% crit chance (which I highly doubt) then there is no wasted crit.
It is not a matter of who likes a Skill Speed build and who doesn't, the theorycrafting has been done and proven that Skill Speed is of less value than other secondary stats.

There is a difference of theorycraft and actual simulation. Dummy test are not real battles. In situations such as Garuda and Titan disappearing I can keep my GL stacks (without popping PB), while someone with low SS would not be able to do so. In this while the person stacking crit would have to ramp back up over the course of 9 GCD's (roughly 20~23 seconds) the individual with SS would already have his GL3 stacked and doing more damage than the person who doesn't have it. This issue also pertains to coil and its heavy movement fights as well. Even in the theorycraft world, the difference in stat weight of SS vs Crit is almost a .01 difference if we are going to be technical. In my opinion it is personal preference.

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Originally Posted by Ethasar

STR > Accuracy (to 420) > Det > Crit > Skill Speed

The amount of DPS increase you get per point of Skill Speed is vastly lower than Det and Crit. I would say 420-440 Skill Speed is plenty.

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You need way more than 420 accuracy for coil. To cap out for turn 5 you need 482 for physical dps.

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Originally Posted by Ethasar

TP is only a 25% increase -snip-.

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What are you talking about?

You're all wrong. Slot intellegence is the best stat for monks. Jk I like skillspeed and Det but alot of lvl 50 gear stacks skill speed.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

I stack skill speed and I have 0 TP issues. You need to manage your TP very strictly if you are going for skill speed stack build.

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You contradicted yourself. You do have TP issues if you have to manage your TP very strictly. Managing it strictly presumably means you are not using the ideal skills. I don't have anywhere near 491 SS and I run out of TP easily on prolonged boss fights with few disconnects. Bard songs can fix it, but unless your party uses primarily TP users, it's not worth it to gimp the bards.

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Originally Posted by Xell

You contradicted yourself. You do have TP issues if you have to manage your TP very strictly. Managing it strictly presumably means you are not using the ideal skills. I don't have anywhere near 491 SS and I run out of TP easily on prolonged boss fights with few disconnects. Bard songs can fix it, but unless your party uses primarily TP users, it's not worth it to gimp the bards.

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No where did I say I restricted my skills. You need to know when to pop invigorate, (not when you hit 600 TP) and then you need to proceed to use it off cool down.

On a side note, do you use Impulse drive? As that skill is a TP issue in itself.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

No where did I say I restricted my skills. You need to know when to pop invigorate, (not when you hit 600 TP) and then you need to proceed to use it off cool down.

On a side note, do you use Impulse drive? As that skill is a TP issue in itself.

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Managing your tp IS restricting your skills. I don't use ID specifically because I have more skill speed than I would like and don't have the luxury of a pocket bard spamming tp song. Likewise I don't use fracture as much as I would like on some fights. Invigorate is nice, but it's not enough on some fights. Also it's buggy as heck and doesn't work like 30% of the time.

I don't have the luxury of a bard spamming TP song either. I currently have 508 skill speed and hold my own fine.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

No where did I say I restricted my skills. You need to know when to pop invigorate, (not when you hit 600 TP) and then you need to proceed to use it off cool down.

On a side note, do you use Impulse drive? As that skill is a TP issue in itself.

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When do you like to initially pop your invigorate?

The second I see TP start to hit 780~720 I will use it and let the cool down start. Before I was waiting until my TP hit 600 and I was having issues. Logically in my head it makes no sense why this works, because it should not matter if I have 600 TP or 700 TP I am still getting 400 back, but for some reason it seems to keep my TP high enough to continue on wards. Now I am not saying my TP is infinite by any means and yes it will run out faster than someone without skill speed, but there are ways to keep your TP high enough to use your skills properly over the course of a fight.

you should use it at 700 to get the full amount and not overheal your TP. either way as soon as you use it it will cap you at 1000 TP and the CD will start. so mind as well do 700 instead of 780 and squeeze the 80 TP out of it. don't know why thats being better for you cause that makes no sense at all. if you do 600 then itll only take you to 900, so you're losing out on the CD timer.

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Originally Posted by Zigkid3

you should use it at 700 to get the full amount and not overheal your TP. either way as soon as you use it it will cap you at 1000 TP and the CD will start. so mind as well do 700 instead of 780 and squeeze the 80 TP out of it. don't know why thats being better for you cause that makes no sense at all. if you do 600 then itll only take you to 900, so you're losing out on the CD timer.

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Invigorate gives you 400TP. Not 300. And as I said. It makes no sense to me either.

Wow looks like I started a fight! ^_^'''

None of you guys have really answered my question though. What I want to know is what skill speed is the minimum you need to hit the bracket before 491. Is it 440? 420? etc

Enjoying the debate of Skill Speed vs crit tho.

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Originally Posted by Size

Wow looks like I started a fight! ^_^'''

None of you guys have really answered my question though. What I want to know is what skill speed is the minimum you need to hit the bracket before 491. Is it 440? 420? etc

Enjoying the debate of Skill Speed vs crit tho.

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I answered it. The answer is that it doesn't matter, there is no magic number.

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Originally Posted by Ephier

Invigorate gives you 400TP. Not 300. And as I said. It makes no sense to me either.

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was just about to come back to edit those numbers too lol

Got my own spreadsheet (internal FC sorry) for comparing three situation (Det / Crit VS SS only max VS SS / Det) on a fight duration with a bit of empirical testing as far as Det is concerned.
It depends a lot of the duration of the fight and my conclusions are :

On a short fight : Det > SS >= Crit
On a long fight : Det > Crit >= SS

So stack gear with Det and then find a balance between SS and Crit. Obvisouly, go to 480 acc in all of that.

From my personal experience on coil 1-4 and the Primals I'd put it at STR=Acc > Skill Speed > Crit > Det. Determination is a very weak period. As for whether Skill Speed or Crit is better...I would say Skill Speed is more useful then Crit. The reason being that Skill Speed helps you pick up your GL stacks back up faster after you lose them, and you WILL lose them in some, if not all of these fights due to the way SE made these fights. I have 20 percent crit and with full GL stacks I'm at 2.00 Global CD. That means 20 percent of my attacks crit (Feels like more when I'm actually fighting) That's not counting in Internal Release which is up 1/4th of the time If your using it every time It's up as well as getting in True Strikes since I'm at 2.00 GCD and have the luxury to weave it in my rotation now. With scholar I'm also at like 1.89 GCD which is amazing for something like turn 4 when you really need to burst things down.

As far as TP management I in turns 1-2 I have like 0 issues and don't even need to use Invigorate because all of our dps are good and the bosses die really fast. In turn 4 It's all about knowing when to go all out and managing your TP. In 4 man dungeons I run out of TP If I'm with a crappy dps and things aren't dying fast enough and that has always happened even before I got the 2.0 GCD so you aren't doing yourself any favors by stacking Crit and Determination above skillspeed.

i don't have a chart of how much skill speed is needed however on my character http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...racter/357974/
my skill speed is 511 (if it shows 510 i have the wrong necklace on) and that makes my GC start at 2.33 and gets reduced down to 1.98. I would just focus on STR / skillspeed and your in the general right direction. The darklight gear / af2 will increase your critical enough and your other secondary stats. The Allagan gear also has a crazy amount of crit however you begin to lose the accuracy you need for coil.

Where did people get 482 for accuracy cap in T5? I did multiple tries at T5 Tuesday night with 468 accuracy. Some fights I would be at 100% accuracy. Others I would miss 1 attack. The most I would miss was once. Each try was about 30-40 mins of DPSing too. So the testing period was long enough to get realistic data. Another Monk was over 470 but not at 480 and was at 100%.

Has anyone actually done t5 with over 470 accuracy and missed? If so, please tell. If not, I'm saying T5 accuracy cap is actually 470ish.

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Originally Posted by 2jays2day

Where did people get 482 for accuracy cap in T5? I did multiple tries at T5 Tuesday night with 468 accuracy. Some fights I would be at 100% accuracy. Others I would miss 1 attack. The most I would miss was once. Each try was about 30-40 mins of DPSing too. So the testing period was long enough to get realistic data. Another Monk was over 470 but not at 480 and was at 100%.

Has anyone actually done t5 with over 470 accuracy and missed? If so, please tell. If not, I'm saying T5 accuracy cap is actually 470ish.

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Out of curiosity, was your miss an auto attack or a skill? I've had 100% accuracy on skills with 99.9% accuracy on auto attack a few times. I'm wonder if they have different accuracy caps. Frankly I could care less if I miss an auto attack every once in a while. The only crippling thing is missing a skill and losing GL3.

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Originally Posted by Xell

Out of curiosity, was your miss an auto attack or a skill? I've had 100% accuracy on skills with 99.9% accuracy on auto attack a few times. I'm wonder if they have different accuracy caps. Frankly I could care less if I miss an auto attack every once in a while. The only crippling thing is missing a skill and losing GL3.

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Auto-attacks. Maybe they do have different accuracy caps. I think we're on to something Xell!

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Originally Posted by Xell

Managing your tp IS restricting your skills. I don't use ID specifically because I have more skill speed than I would like and don't have the luxury of a pocket bard spamming tp song. Likewise I don't use fracture as much as I would like on some fights. Invigorate is nice, but it's not enough on some fights. Also it's buggy as heck and doesn't work like 30% of the time.

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I have concluded that many people are really slow and that is why they are not running out of TP. Just tossing in fracture can be enough to cause me TP issues in AK/WP.