Bard's Shirt (Relic) or Relic+1 - which one first?

I really can't tell which one is better to upgrade first. Bard's weapon damage increases by 1, compared to the 2 every DPS gets from their HQ counterpart. On the other hand, I heard reaching a certain amount of DEX (420 from other threads) makes it so relic+1 will outparse our Bard's shirt in comparison.

To give an insight on what these two items are about...

• You gain +9DEX/11VIT/15crit and -3acc when upgrading from Darklight to Bard's Shirt
• You gain +4DEX/5VIT/4acc/3Skil Speed/1physical & 3 magic damage

That means if you upgrade your Body before Bow, you're gaining a +5DEX/6VIT/15crit/-7acc advantage over getting the Bow. The question is: will this beat out our bow overtime, or is that +1Physical damage better than 5DEX and 15crit?

pants/10chars

Personally I'd pick Relic +1... its all about the glow! But if you want to be "optimal" there's a thread about it and between the two its the shirt.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nding-for-BRDs

If you don't have the pants get those first. Then get bard shirt. Bow can be upgraded later.

Is it good idea to get Myth Hands and Ring first ?
Since those are current BIS and give most upgrade for me.
Then Pants, Body and +1 ( take 9 more weeks :3 )

relic +1 breh

Pants > Hands > Shirt > your pick > your pick > your pick > your pick > Lastly Relic +1 http://i.imgur.com/2vm5Vl8.gif

Add condition, i am using AK gloves, crafted ring, DL pants

I don't know why any bard wouldn't get the crafted shirt. It's literally the only piece that is 9 tome items and with it melded the gap becomes smaller making bow the clear winner in my opinion between these two.

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Originally Posted by Thorauku

Pants > Hands > Shirt > your pick > your pick > your pick > your pick > Lastly Relic +1 http://i.imgur.com/2vm5Vl8.gif

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I got boots first( I know allagan ones are BiS but I also care about aesthetics lol) before chest coz the DL ones are UUUUUUUGGGGLYY :P

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

I don't know why any bard wouldn't get the crafted shirt. It's literally the only piece that is 9 tome items and with it melded the gap becomes smaller making bow the clear winner in my opinion between these two.

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Gil becomes a huge issue when dealing with melding rng. It's easy to tell someone mats are only slightly more phil than the dl chest and materia isn't that bad, but the disappointment is amazing when you get the first 3 melds with 100% and feel good about yourself and then you potentially hit the wall of throwing 10-30k gil worth of a single materia at a 35-40% chance meld just to see it fail 10+ times(I've seen it happen many times just sitting near market boards).

For a lot it's much easier to do 3 weeks worth of myth capping to get their chest than it is to potentially get 1+mil gil because they get terrible meld rng. For some there's also the fact that they may just want to look like a bard again(myself) and do not like the ak chest look or the full plate look of dl/allagan. In the end the difference you will see between upgrading your chest from dl-af1 and relic-relic+1 will be so miniscule if at all noticeable that it really does not matter.

But if you're wanting the most bang for your myth and are fine with the look of tights you can't go wrong with getting legs first. The difference in secondary stats combined with primary will give you a noticeable difference when compared to +1'ing your wep. There's also the whole unless you're looking at a twin kill here soon(which may be possible with a video out now) you really shouldn't be looking at allagan legs as a potential upgrade path(that and the itemization is terrible compared to myth).

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Originally Posted by AkashiXI

That means if you upgrade your Body before Bow, you're gaining a +5DEX/6VIT/15crit/-7acc advantage over getting the Bow. The question is: will this beat out our bow overtime, or is that +1Physical damage better than 5DEX and 15crit?

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The chest beats the bow slightly if you have 0 value for the SS upgrade on the bow. If you count the value of the SS on the bow, then the bow wins slightly.

Sry, +1 Relic increase SS from an original one ?

I have the HQ Gryphon chest with 4x Crit IV melds and 1 Crit I. I also have the AF2 pants and ring. Should I leave the AF2 chest until last now after the AF2 Gloves>Head? I know the gloves are the next best upgrade for me....but after that I am not sure. I know everyone agrees that the AF2 chest is BiS - but i am not sure how much more ahead it is compared to the HQ gryphon chest melded like mine.

I too am confused, undecided on this matter. I have the mythos on hold, but I cant for the life of me decide on +1 or chest piece.

Everyone I spoke to on my server says +1 first. I even had a couple tell me I'd be passed up for coil if I didn't +1.

I'm damn unsure atm. Any suggestions?

+1 supposedly effects the limit break in the group, and is very similar upgrade to the rest... I got it first. The choice is yours.

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Originally Posted by Deadcell1453

I too am confused, undecided on this matter. I have the mythos on hold, but I cant for the life of me decide on +1 or chest piece.

Everyone I spoke to on my server says +1 first. I even had a couple tell me I'd be passed up for coil if I didn't +1.

I'm damn unsure atm. Any suggestions?

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Depends on if you run with your fc or not honestly. For the random idiots that spam Mor Dhona/Wineport all day then yes they will require relic +1 over anything else because none of them have a clue how much the upgrade sucks for bards compared to other pieces. For people who are a little more understanding when it comes to logic or spreadsheets then it's best to go with whatever is the biggest up first or whatever you like the look of more first.

In the end it does not matter at all because turns 1-4 can be cleared in nothing more than darklight, anything more just raises the margin for error. Bard relic +1 you will not see a vastly noticeable difference over the base relic when compared to the difference other classes get with their +3 wep dmg.

Get the Ring and legs first, and follow that up with more myth/i90 pieces to fill up slots. Bow shouldn't be a priority for a long time. The +1 bard does not get as much of a boost compared to the other classes when they +1 their items.

Well, they are "fixing" turn 5 now so that is even less of a reason to go for +1. Yay! Finally I can get rid of the stupid Artemis bow...eventually.

Honestly get what you want, if you're deadset on either the Bow or the Shirt it's a toss up between an extra ~2% Crit rate or some extra Damage. I personally went for the bow first for the glow and I haven't looked back. But if you're so on edge about getting the bow first, get the Tights or the Ring first.

I got the bow, legs, then ring.. I haven't once said damn... I wish I got **** instead.. it's really not that big of a difference.

One thing that I don't see being talked about is the value of VIT.
If you've watched the Twintania kill video, the lowest HP value on their team was 4200.
Some of the unavoidable attacks were bringing them down pretty low.

My suggestion would be to +1 your Relic so that you're not bringing down your group's Limit Break damage, then get pants, then shirt, then hands/head before venturing into accessories.
Even though some of the accessories might actually be better for damage per Myth spent, ignoring that those pieces give you no Vit could come back to bite you in later content.

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Originally Posted by Bardo

My suggestion would be to +1 your Relic so that you're not bringing down your group's Limit Break damage

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Problem though is no one even knows just how much dmg is being added when one person has an ilvl 80 wep over 90. The other thing is there's problems beyond lb dmg if a group has to rely on lb so much, I can guarantee static stat gains from various pieces will win out against what may not even be a 100 dmg increase on lb.

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

I can guarantee static stat gains from various pieces will win out against what may not even be a 100 dmg increase on lb.

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Let's see some math. : /
Just because it hasn't been proven doesn't disprove it.

All the maths I've seen so far that attempt to prove that a few AF2 pieces are DPS gains over the Relic+1 in the first place are based on a completely simplistic damage formula that leaves you with nothing more than an approximate stat weight.
That's not exactly something I'd base a "guarantee" on. :X

Of course you're not going to "gimp" your group if you pick up AF2 pieces first. Or even if you pick up Accessories first.
At this point, there isn't enough information to support a facts based optimal upgrade path.
It's mostly just speculation based on approximations and how you value group performance vs individual performance.
So I think my advice is just as good as any other.
<3

Here is my bard. http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/1760096/
I run Coil every week since end of august early sept.
Based on all the research I did. Pants always came up first with the highest DPS gain and being BIS.

Reading http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...nding-for-BRDs as my biggest guide.
I bought my up to the belt so far. Since these are the biggest upgrades I then played around with numbers on this spread sheet that was posted. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...UQVhHZ0E#gid=0

I DO not have relic+1 and have been clearing turns since I started. Bards +1 is not the biggest dps upgrade.

I only have 1 piece from coil because thats all that ever dropped. :(
If you aren't going to coil at all. Get relic+1 or smaller pieces.
If you are gonna coil I suggest pants first. And make sure you have full DL or crafted gear. I would strongly suggest getting HQ Gryphonskin Ring. It seems like the Bard ring doesn't drop until turn 5 so having that on with the myth ring is great.

The DL ring is.
Dexterity 9
Critical Hit Rate 9
Determination 8
Magic Defense 1
Defense 1

For HQ Gryphonskin Ring

Strength 9
Dexterity 9
Skill Speed 9
Accuracy 12
with melding max 12 crit, 8 dtr, 3 skill speed

This crafted ring is a good way to Itemize since you can gain Acc and still have the crit.

You want to be Accuracy capped "472" Turn 1-4
I have 476 on right now so I have to pop acc food for turn 5.
The hardest part is knowing which items give the best stats so you can wear those and fill in the gaps with Acc gear.

Ring is turn 4 we got one last week. Regardless though the Allagan ring is pretty bad and also think crafted is just the easier route to go.

Crafted (max melded): Dex 9 / 12 Skill Speed / 12 Accuracy / 12 Critical / 8 Determination
Allagan: Dex 13 / 11 Skill Speed / 16 Accuracy

4 Dex and 4 Accuracy at the loss of 12 Crit, 8 Determination and a Skill Speed.

I'll stick with crafted + hero and give allagan rings to alts.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

Ring is turn 4 we got one last week

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Except for the fact that it has been confirmed by many so far that it is a turn 5 drop and has never dropped from any other turn. Yes the allagan ring is still pretty horribly itemized(the SS is terrible on it, the acc on the other hand by the time you start getting twin kills you should honestly be scraping the bottom of the barrel on acc and could probably use it), beyond that though i'd be surprised if you saw any kind of noticeable difference between 4 dex and 12crit/8det when as far as stats go 4 dex is ranked at almost the same as that combination of stats.

Sadly most Allagan is pretty much filler. I guess it will be useful for when Vanity slots come out...if they ever decide to unlock them that is!

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Originally Posted by Pellegri

Except for the fact that it has been confirmed by many so far that it is a turn 5 drop and has never dropped from any other turn.

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How can it be confirmed to be turn 5 if it hasn't been seen to drop? My guild actually recorded it on twitch, I'll see if he still has unedited feeds I can link you when he's on today.

I was going on the same assumption as you were when I geared myself - it was a turn 5 drop.

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

How can it be confirmed to be turn 5 if it hasn't been seen to drop?

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About like so:

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Originally Posted by Zilara

VG of Excalibur downed Twintania at 3:02am PST after a hilariously fun morning that involved a positively unhealthy amount of energy drinks . . .

Drops - Allagan Spear/Allagan Band of Aiming

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I uh just talked to the guy, it was a choker. My healer friend kept saying ring even when I was like wtf nobody has seen that drop yet. I feel like an idiot =x My bad guys!

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Originally Posted by Gabbelgak

4 Dex and 4 Accuracy at the loss of 12 Crit, 8 Determination and a Skill Speed.

I'll stick with crafted + hero and give allagan rings to alts.

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4 Dex alone is more valuable than 12 crit and 8 det. Plus Acc helps with itemizing cap.

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Originally Posted by Coraline

4 Dex alone is more valuable than 12 crit and 8 det. Plus Acc helps with itemizing cap.

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I haven't seen any stat weights that put crit or det at below 0.2 to dex's 1.0.

20 x .2 = 4 x 1

And the weights usually go above .2. . .