Retainer Reference System to replace the Market Wards.

Retainer Reference System

How's it work?
The Retainer Reference System, is a suggestion I briefly outlined in another thread.
It involves:

• Altering the Functionality of the Market Wards zone.
• Removing the need to move to and from Wards searching for or placing retainers.
• Implementing a system that references all available Retainers (With some restrictions).

First, the Market Wards would shift from several zones to a single zone. Within this zone there would be a single NPC capable of handling all transactions or several NPCs that would handle transactions for specific item types.

Secondly, these NPCs would then be able to reference all retainers in the game that have items in their bazaar. (Either all markets could be linked through this mechanism or restrictions may be placed allowing a single NPC to only reference retainers originating from a certain city)

Buying & Selling with the Retainer Reference System

By simply placing an item within your Retainer's bazaar, this item would then be available for reference and no other steps would be necessary for your item to become available.

In order to purchase an item, a player need only move to the single Market Ward and speak with either a single NPC referencing all items or an NPC related with the corresponding item type. A nearly identical search feature would then be employed to search for your item, and rather than seeking out the specific retainer... the retainer is then summoned next to you.

Why is this an effective and effecient solution?

• Frequent Market Crashes due to unstable zones filled with retainers would no longer be a reoccuring problem for both players and the developers. (Devs seem to have stabilized the Wards, but they have imposed a limit to the # of retainers available...) This system would eliminate the need for imposing and raising retainer caps, as all retainers with items in their bazaar would be available.
• Limits the steps needed to both buy & sell items.
• Retainers do the work for you.
• No additional Art Assets required--existing market ward zone can be used. Example: In a single market ward several NPCs could be placed at each stand. Each NPC would then represent the various wards we currently have. Rather than zoning to each specific ward, a player could access all items available by type through these NPCs and summon the corresponding retainers to their position.

Update: I made a Diary post that further explains the idea and gives a hypothetical scenario illustrated by several pictures. Diary post can be found HERE.

I like this idea, and it would still allow for those spontanious purchases as we still get to see what other things this retainer is selling. With this idea, no more over crowded wards, yay.

Thanks for posting here Veasna, I don't think this thread will get much attention in the Market Wards & Retainers section of the forums. I strongly believe this is the best system FFXIV will be able to offer; and, I believe this system to be vastly superior to other MMOs as well.

The beauty is how the already implemented Retainer system could be fleshed out into a truly remarkable mechanic.

I think this would be an awesome idea, it's kind of like a pawn shop where you can sell at your own price. Or they could liven up the city by making multiple NPC's sell player listed items in the stores :rolleyes:

This is a great idea i posted something similar in another thread also. This is probably more clearly laid out than what i had listed. It also solves the scaling issues when more poeple eventuallly join the game adding even more retainers to the wards.

I like the idea overall, though I do have a few comments.

1. If this were implemented, they might as well link all the cities. If there were actual physical wards with retainers, then, yes, not linking the cities makes sense (in a sense). If we're just going to be summoning the retainers, though, might as well let them be summoned to any of the cities, the same way we can summon our own retainers.

2. I am slightly concerned, though, about what would happen with more than one person trying to summon the same retainer. I'm sure they have something to keep different people from buying the same item simultaneously, but I don't believe they've had to consider different people trying to summon the same retainer. This is pretty much the only hitch I can think of off the top of my head.

3. As something of an aside, they would certainly need to change some other features slightly, especially if they did link the wards. Things like being able to see more than just the cheapest 20 of an item, changing tax rates, etc. Not an issue, per se, just something I felt like pointing out.

Anyway, like I said, seems like a good idea, overall. At this point, I'm just hoping they do something to fix it.

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If this were implemented, they might as well link all the cities. If there were actual physical wards with retainers, then, yes, not linking the cities makes sense (in a sense). If we're just going to be summoning the retainers, though, might as well let them be summoned to any of the cities, the same way we can summon our own retainers.

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I agree, for reasons I mentioned in the other thread linked in the OP, at this moment I am in favor of linking the market wards. Although the developers may have other plans that justify not linking them, so I just wanted to point out this system would be flexible in both and additionally would be a much more sensible way of linking the market wards if they chose to do so.

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I am slightly concerned, though, about what would happen with more than one person trying to summon the same retainer. I'm sure they have something to keep different people from buying the same item simultaneously, but I don't believe they've had to consider different people trying to summon the same retainer. This is pretty much the only hitch I can think of off the top of my head.

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I did consider this problem, I think there are a few way to work around it though. Either simply allow multiple players to summon a single retainer and have the items update in real time so a player would figure out quick if someone else is buying from the same retainer. Or if that is impossible, items could be purchased directly from the NPC @ the Item search counter.

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As something of an aside, they would certainly need to change some other features slightly, especially if they did link the wards. Things like being able to see more than just the cheapest 20 of an item, changing tax rates, etc. Not an issue, per se, just something I felt like pointing out.

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I agree with this point as well, hopefully they have teams working on making the current system as friendly as possible while they work simultaeneously on an overhaul.

These are all very good ideas! :D
These are the things I would change as well.

• Remove the Bazaar Modeling feature. People only want to play dress up and it fills the Item Search with ridiculous amounts of items "Not for Sale". (Trying to be polite. :p) Change it to a Gear menu that loads stored items on the Retainer. This will keep the option open for those who enjoy it and eliminate the "Not for Sale" items. I don't think this could be any more of a burden to the servers than all the location information currently being saved.
• Mender's Ward counter. Add an NPC with search menu, sorted by class and repair item, where you can view repair requests. Possibly even offering Common Guild support at the same counter. This will lead to loitering crafters though. :(
• Real time viewing of retainers at multiple locations would be the best solution. But just adding a que window, "This retainer is busy at this time and will arrive shortly", with a first come basis would be fine. Players would need priority on their retainers and move to "next in line" to avoid dropping sales.
• Listing by Character Name. I want to support my friends in game but shouldn't have to know all their retainer's names. By listing Items on sale by player you can choose to support your friends easily. I will gladly pay a higher price for an item if I know the player selling it! Also if/when they implement Signatures on items players can create reputations for themselves.

Keep the ideas coming!

@Fannar

While those are all good suggestions, I think they mostly fall into the last category of changes that Viridiana mentioned; and, I'm more interested in talking about the foundation of the market system.

I think the most pressing problems the market system are the overcrowding and crashing of the wards. Even as the game population is considerably low, the market wards are already being taxed to their limit. As the population grows, this problem will only worsen. While linking the market wards would be a temporary fix, at the very best, the markets would be evenly divided among the 3 city-states (maybe 4 whenever Ishguard is finally released). Should the game gain in popularity, these markets would then be taxed again bringing us back to square one.

So, essentially, the only way to fix the crashing & overcrowding involves dealing with the retainers themselves. The only visible steps SE has taken so far involve merely hotfixing the current system. Although one of the letters did point to some fundamental changes, I'd wait to see what they are first. If SE does not work on serious changes, one popular patch (1.8 for example) and all those players who have been waiting for content will jump on and be using the wards which are already at their limit.

Edit:

From Bayhone:

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In Patch 1.18, we will be increasing the max number of retainers that can be set up within each area. However, by simply increasing the number of allowable retainers, the fact remains that it could again reach the capacity limit. Therefore, as a precursor to that we will be planning some type of system of checks and balances in order to reset the retainers that have been setup.

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I think SE clearly sees the problem. No mention of direct work on the retainer system outside of hotfixes though.

Agreed, there is no point picking out paint if there is no motor in the car. :D

I have similar ideas, that makes the retainer system even more worthwhile than AH:
First of all there should be remote interactions with a retainer via pearl. Logically we can't give an item, but we can see what this retainer have and most important, we could manage the markets from everywhere. Lets say we have a high demand item to sell and we have a lot of stacks too. What do you do? Staying near the wards at the current system. With remote, you don't. So Ul'dah isn't be needed. You can craft and idle in Gridania and your items get sold in Ul'dah.
Second idea. Retainer need a licence for market wards. A merchant license is only loan. So if a character quits, the merchant license is over after a month. SE could set the license prices very low, because it's only a way to get rid of old retainers in the wards. It's an very easy way.
Set NPCs at every city, which represents the markes of the other cities. I really like the idea of 3 different markets. It worked very well in FFXI. And i think if the server population grows, characters will be set at other cities again. Why not?
The NPCs only reflect as a representative. Although you can't buy, you know there is this item in Gridania. One step further this NPCs could also buy for you for a fee e.g 15% and send it to you. Must be worthwhile to go to the city yourself.

Because there is no Moogle magic, those representatives could be a replacement of a Send menue. Although i think a home would be much better to send the items. I want to craft my own bed again ^^ and i want a way to send items. I don't need an AH, which seems to be uselees in many points anyways.
The most important part: I can finally buy HQ items and materials . With the old AH FFXI system they were all bought in an instant and tossed buy GRMTs and we were forced to look at the characters outside of Jeuno to buy incredible overpriced items. Because this system need a bit of time, RMTs don't do this as often. I think the retainer system gives more players a fair chance to buy items at reasonable prices.

Thanks for your input ScoutX, I'm still mainly looking at the fundamentals of the market wards & retainers themselves. But you did bring up some points:

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remote interactions with a retainer via pearl

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If you can direct your retainer's actions from afar and place them in other cities, you run the risk of enhancing a single dominant market. Example: A player in Limsa Lominsa is mining valuable ore. Rather than travel to Ul'dah to sell the ore, the player can simply call his retainer in Limsa and send the items over to Ul'dah. Because players must still purchase directly from the appropriate market wards, players will still likely coalesce in one city state. The only difference is, there are an equal or greater number of retainers in that same market ward and less items are being sold at the other city-states.

Not that I'm against having more accessibility for retainers; linkpearls would certainly be a logical explanation for remote direction, but until the underlying problems are fixed, all the additions will make an eventual overhaul potentially more complicated.

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Retainer need a licence for market wards

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Also I am fairly certain retainers dissapear after a few days? I'm also not sure a significant # of retainers are from players not playing anymore, especially with all the market crashes.

Don't believe they do disappear, at the moment. And recent patches have stabilized the ward servers enough that I haven't seen them crash in weeks. . .

I'm really interested in suggestions to simplify the steps needed to buy & sell items, and to help promote market activity in other city-states. If you have any ideas, please share them.

I think there should at least be three wards. 1 for buying items, 1 for viewing items retainers are seeking, and 1 for repairing. Then npcs in each of those wards to assist with each category. (Maybe consistent tabs on retainers for these categories too. So we can sell, seek, and repair up to 10 slots worth on each.)

With a reference system, rather than having separate wards, you could have a Repair NPC a Seeking NPC and a Selling NPC. With each NPC you could summon others' retainers to you and repair, buy, or sell items without having to travel to specific wards.

Each NPC would have a search feature, allowing Blacksmiths to search out specific item types to repair for example. And also allow people to search for what other players are looking to buy.

Edit: Although I would rather have a single NPC handling everything through a menu.

That actually doesn't sound like a bad idea on paper. Combining this system with a more traditional auction house search function would make utilizing the current retainer system a much more strait forward affair. The only thing that sounds like a problem is the summoning portion. Summoning and dismissing retainers could clutter up the hub more than it needs to be and make exchanges that much more difficult to complete.

A good twist on this would be to have a UI pop up and allow the player to interact with some kind of NPC organizer. The player finds what he is looking for in the search option, the NPC organizer goes off to call up the seller, and then brings the seller to the selling window where the player would interact with him. This will help keep the exchange area a bit cleaner and still provide the same service, since the NPC isn't really being summoned to the zone, but rather to the individual players UI window. It also helps prevent having several duplicate retainers out at once, unless we all want to believe the retainers have learned how to clone themselves spontaneously...

Actually, self cloning retainers sounds awsome. We need more self cloning helpers.

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Originally Posted by Colt47

The only thing that sounds like a problem is the summoning portion. Summoning and dismissing retainers could clutter up the hub more than it needs to be and make exchanges that much more difficult to complete.

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Well, I was thinking it would work nearly identical to the Retainer Bell. You simply summon a retainer and interact with it, yet no other player can see the retainer you're interacting with. So, while you would have many players at the hub, you would not be seeing each player summoning and interacting with the retainers; also, like the Retainer Bell, once you've made your decision you would then automatically begin interacting with the retainer, no need to target it amongst all the players. I don't mind that the Retainer be behind the counter or in a window, but it would be nice to have some visual interaction with other players' retainers still.

Necro-bump, for great justice!

Also, add me to the list of people who had a similar idea without finding this thread earlier. In fact, I thought of something almost identical, with a few specifics.

1. My idea used the "multiple NPCs hosting different items" method to give it more of a market feel, and less of a pawn shop feel.

2. Instead of summoning the retainer to you for purchasing, my idea used a "buy from NPC" method. One can simply think of putting an item in a retainer's bazaar as a way of saying "Go take this to the wards for me."

Other than that, I thought up the exact same idea as you...only not as soon. I believe this is exactly the direction that the Market Wards needs to go. It has the Market Ward feel, including the use of a retainer as a sales liaison, but is more like a cleverly-masked set of mini auction houses. Brilliant.

I have to say Blaise, you captured both the details and the spirit of the idea accurately.

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1. My idea used the "multiple NPCs hosting different items" method to give it more of a market feel, and less of a pawn shop feel.

2. Instead of summoning the retainer to you for purchasing, my idea used a "buy from NPC" method. One can simply think of putting an item in a retainer's bazaar as a way of saying "Go take this to the wards for me."

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I think this is a perfectly good implementation and,

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the use of a retainer as a sales liaison

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is exactly what I had in mind.

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I'm not very particular about the various methods used to accomplish the reference system, but there are a few parts that I think are absolutely necessary

1. That retainer's all retainers with items in their bazaar be available for reference.
2. That the number of 'market zones' be reduced to one.
3. That, from this zone, players are able to find and purchase items without having to travel.

Whether or not the markets be linked, I don't much mind after we have chocobos and airships. It would be even interesting if players became merchants and began, for example, buying Iron Ore in Ul'dah to sell to Blacksmiths in Limsa. I also don't much mind how the item is exactly purchased, whether it is after summoning the retainer itself or simply purchasing from an NPC.

What is absolutely important, is that players need only place items in their Retainer's bazaar and dismiss them and their items be available to the city in which they wish to sell. (You could even pay a small fee, 1,000gil for example, to have the retainer travel to another city.)

Anyways, my point is... people have been asking for an Auction house for some time now. The market wards are overly convoluted and have their own inherent problems. But, this reference system is the middleground. Combining the best of the AH, and the best of the market wards.

Also, I might redraft the OP, to add all the important points that have been made thus far, outline the basic barebones of the system, and give some reason why this is far superior to any other system we will likely see.

Edit: I think rather than redrafting, I'll make a diary post that both outlines it and use some pictures to lay out how it would work.

Just added the diary post.

+1 i approve of this idea =D

Hmm sounds like a bizarro AH, but hey it works.

In the diary post, it looks as though you can only sell from a retainer bell. And then if you wished to purchase, it would then be necessary to move to the wards again to purchase.

This is not how I intended to make it appear; within the single Market Ward, there should be a retainer bell available, or it should be possible to summon your own retainer via the NPC just as you are able to summon other players' retainers.

Edit: But at the same time, if all you wished to accomplish was to sell, you would then have the option of simply visiting any retainer bell, dumping your items and dismissing your retainer. And your items would then be available saving the hassle of having to travel to the market yourself.

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Also, if SE adds the ability for retainers to make automatic transactions, you may not even need to go to the market ward at all, as they would handle everything. Thus it may, in the future, be possible to have buying/selling/delivery all handled automatically via a single terminal.

I cannot think of a better system with greater convenience.