Ok, I've got all my crafts except cooking to 50. I recently leveled cooking to 37 for Hasty Touch and Steady Hand 2. Theoretically, I have all of the abilities recommended for crafting HQ finished products using NQ materials.
There are numerous references to always being able to HQ a recipe using NQ materials.
I've been practicing. I call Shenanigans.
Is it really possible to HQ anything or are these people claiming to do so exaggerating?
Or, do I need to have all +2 gear with forbidden melds in order to do so?
I pop Inner Quiet at the beginning of every synth. I use Careful Synthesis II to get progress up far enough that just one more will finish it.
I use Tricks of the Trade when up to restore CP.
Now I start the phase where I try to increase Quality.
Sometimes I use Great Strides and Steady Hand II. Sometimes I don't. But, at this point I begin using Hasty Touch, and Tricks of the Trade when up.
When I get to 20 durability, I use Masters Mend II to take me back to 80.
Then I go back to Hasty Touch and Tricks of the Trade.
Here is where it starts to vary depending on my available CP.
I can either use a Master's Mend, Manipulation, or Waste Not to give me either more durability or less durability loss.
When I can no longer restore or reduce the cost of durability, and when I'm down to 10 durability and nothing else I can do, I finish the synth with Careful Synthesis II.
Sometimes I HQ, sometimes I don't.
Am I doing it wrong, or do I really need the tricked out gear to do this successfully?
Anyone willing to help me? Or is everyone keeping their secrets secret so they can corner the market? I really only craft stuff for myself, my husband and a couple of my friends.
Can you really guarantee an HQ using NQ items?
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10-21-2013, 06:12 AMTrystWildkeyCan you really guarantee an HQ using NQ items?
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10-21-2013, 06:39 AMAlahnSiegrain
I usually go for ADV touch+ Inovation + Strides for the final quality addition. If you have stacked enough Inner quiet, it should max it, specially if Good pops. Then proceed with rumination > ing 2 > steady and basic/standard synths (you should have carefull 2 tho I guess). The rest are the same I think.
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10-21-2013, 07:16 AMKenji1134
I believe the biggest thing is Byregot's Blessing. It provides a quickly increasing return on IQ stacks, and although it is not labeled as a "touch", it is affected by Great Strides.
The general idea is that you use Steady Hand 2 and either Hasty Hand or Basic Touch, to build up around 6 to 8 IQ stacks... somewhere around there. Then use Steady Hand (1), Great Strides, Innovation, and Byregot's, to get a massive quality boost... Especially if you have Innovation, with a good 6-8 IQ stacks, it really is massive... And then you finish. -
10-21-2013, 08:10 AMRaldo
What gear are you wearing? Unmelded HQ AF should be sufficient, though obviously melds help.
Also, what are you trying to make
Edit: I HQ 1-star stuff with NQ ingredients just fine with my GSM who wears top-tier accessories/belt, but crappy mis-40s Grand Company DoH gear otherwise. The problem must lie in your use of crafting abilities. -
10-21-2013, 09:28 AMTrystWildkeyI'm wearing NQ crafting AF, I'm trying to HQ the crafting AF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raldo
I've also listed the abilities I'm using in the OP, what should I be doing instead, and/or can you tell me the flaw in what I've listed? -
10-21-2013, 09:40 AMRainsford
If you're crafting without knowing the outcome of what you're doing, you're doing it wrong. I got that from "using Synth until I'll one turn away from finishing."
Have 360 Craftsmanship and eat CP food. Inner Quiest>Steady Hand II>Hasty Touch to 20/80 while using ToTT on every good. Masters Mend II. Repeat to 30/80.
Now, have you landed at least 8 touches? Good. Great Strides > SHI > Ingenuity > Byregots > Standard Synth x2 and you've just gone 100%/100%.
Did you land less than 8 touches but still have more than 130 CP? Manipulation/Mend and use more touches to get to at least 8.
Basically, the idea is that you have at least 11 80% chances to land Touch, and you need a 75% success rate. Of course, odds are you'll have gotten enough Goods to get more durability or you'll have had enough left over CP to use a 100% touch a few times to get you to where you need to be. -
10-21-2013, 09:53 AMSapphidia
I didn't see you mention Byregots. That's the entire point of the Hasty Touch spam. Spamming hasty touch isnt huge amounts of quality on its own compared to using the mana on better touches, but it builds up huge amounts of Inner Quiet stacks. The idea is that you build up your control absolutely huge with Inner Quiet via Hasty spam, then when you're close to finishing the craft, you use a massively boosted "finisher". Ideally this will be a Byregot's Blessing with Great Strides and probably Innovation up too. -This- is the key. You can't do it without Byregots. Hasty Touch spam on its own isnt all that special. It's the Inner Quiet stacks that it builds that make it worthwhile.
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10-21-2013, 10:13 AMMikita
Can anyone here reliably HQ the 1-star 40 Durability recipes from all NQ ingredients? This would be things like Twinthread, Darksteel Nuggets, Rose Gold Nuggets, Hippogryph Leather, Spruce Lumber, Growth Formula Delta, etc.
Those recipes give me a bit of a hard time because 40 Durability isn't much to work with. Whereas, HQing high level 70 or 80 Durability recipes from NQ ingredients is usually easy unless I have a string of bad luck along the way.
How many times do you need to use Careful Synthesis II to finish the recipe?Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
Personally, I want to go from 0% to 100% with just 2 or 3 actions (even on 2-star recipes) at the very end because this gives me more room to work on building up Quality first. On 2-star recipes that usually means using Ingenuity II together with Careful Synthesis II.
Maybe just me, but I will usually use Tricks of the Trade earlier in the synthesis -- but not always later in the synthesis. Depending on how things went earlier on, if I have CP to spare I would rather use one of the Touch actions on a Good condition to get a nice boost in Quality due to your built up Control from Inner Quiet.Quote:
I use Tricks of the Trade when up to restore CP.
And as Kenji1134 said, Byregot's Blessing can make all the difference. If you haven't failed too many Hasty Touches along the way and have enough CP for it, Great Strides + Byregot's Blessing is wonderful. Even better when under Steady Hand because "90% success rate" has a bad habit of failing when you need it most. ^^; -
10-21-2013, 10:53 AMXbob42
We've got a dude in our guild who has been able to HQ 100% of items with NQ items for weeks now. He's our beautiful pro crafter!
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10-21-2013, 11:43 AMTrystWildkeyCool story bro, care to share how he does it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbob42
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10-21-2013, 11:55 AMXbob42I'd love to, except we keep asking him for what, exactly, it is that he does and he keeps saying he'll write us up a guide on the forums and keeps stalling like a dick so I'm just as curious as you are. All I know is that it's totally possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
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10-21-2013, 01:30 PMRainsfordAgain, there's no guide. Land 7 Hasty Touches then Great Strides + Ingenuity + Byregots and you get 100% quality. You can give yourself over 15-16 tries to land those 7 pretty easily, so the odds of failing 50% of an 80% synth is quite low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xbob42
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10-21-2013, 03:21 PMAphraell
100% HQ on 80Durability items with NQ materials. Requires 370CP(use Food) - Enjoy
Macro1
/ac "Comfort Zone" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Inner Quiet" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Waste Not" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
Macro2
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Great Strides" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Ingenuity II" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Great Strides" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Innovation" <me>
/wait 1.8
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <me>
Macro3
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me>
/wait 2.5
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me> -
10-21-2013, 06:21 PMGrundyFirst off, use Steady Hand II before Waste Not, otherwise it's a Waste of Waste Not, this is a pretty basic error? Secondly, Ingenuity II only affect progress, not quality, so use this after Byregot's Blessing, otherwise you're using up a Steady Hand II allocation for no reason. Also, for an 80 durability item, I'd use Masters Mend II at 20 to get 6 synths back. I only use Waste Not for 40 durability materials, and why waste all that CP on Basic Touch?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
No offense, if it works for you then go for it, but to me those macro's are barmy. -
10-21-2013, 07:27 PMSapphidiaThe point of the macros above is that you use Basic Touch with Steady hand 2 for a 100% success rate. Sure, they seem sub-optimal if you're used to RNG Hasty Touches, but if you have enough control then the above macros are pretty much perfect. As someone above said - 7 Hasty Touches + a boosted Byregots = HQ. If you have enough CP to use seven BASIC touches with SH2, you have the guaranteed 7 touches. Using Waste Not before Steady Hand II is fine because you get FIVE 100% basic touches out of the SH2 at the cost of 1 proc of the Waste Not, which is better in this case as you need only a set amount of Touches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Grundy
I'm not sure about the ingenuity II use myself .... set up here it seems to imply that the Byregots will give more quality. I know ingenuity is generally used for progress rather than quality, but doesnt the level of an item also affect how much Quality you gain from a touch? In which case, it's perfect here. If it doesnt, then yes, it's best used just before those careful synth IIs. -
10-21-2013, 08:15 PMGrundyI can see the logic now I've been thinking about it, I've just always used the Steady Hand II/Hasty Touch method to conserve CP and used + control food. I'll have to play about with numbers more, I'm not sure how much control or craftsmanship I'd need to sacrifice to get the target 350+ CP needed but there is no harm in experimenting. Ingenuity II definately has no affect on quality, only progress. With Ingenuity II and Standard Synth you can complete a Darksteel or Rose Gold Nugget in one turn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapphidia
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10-21-2013, 08:52 PMKyana
Don't use macros...
In short, yes, 100% HQ rate with NQ items is no problem, including 1 star items (can't say anything about 2 star because I didn't find any reason to craft them yet).
As most others already said, Inner Quiet -> Steady Hands II -> Hasty Touch -> Great Strides+Innovation -> Advanced Touch/Byregot's Blessing -> (Innovation II) Careful Synthesis II.
That's the basic strategy when aiming for HQ items. I also use Comfort Zone at the start of a synth and depending on item condition other skills and, of course, Tricks Of The Trade.
For crafting HQ materials (40 durability) I often use Manipulation, but because I don't care too much about HQ materials if I'm not going to work on 2 star stuff I often end up with a basic rotation to get them crafted fast and with ~50-70% HQ chance.
In the end it all depends on what works best for you and how the synth is working out. -
10-22-2013, 04:18 AMElasiaLocal Leviathan 2 star Megalomart checking in. I actually use an optimized version of this that only needs 367 CP which allows use of cheap cawl cennins for food.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aphraell
I'll also throw this nugget in there are some other rules to play here when macroing 2 star, as your enemy is poor on your byregots cycle. You will make hq sub materials for the final combine that allows you to get at least a 500-600 qual precharge in order to guarantee 100% quality charge everytime on 2 star combines. All 8 classes have the same stat base of 354 control, 353 craftsmanship, and 343 cp so my macro is universal.
I usually make around 100-130 2 star items a week, all have 100% qual doing this.
Enjoy. Macro below in next post. -
10-22-2013, 04:19 AMElasia
/ac "Comfort Zone" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Inner Quiet" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Waste Not" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Steady Hand II" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/echo USE MACRO 2 NOW
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Basic Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Great Strides" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Steady Hand" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Standard Touch" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Great Strides" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Innovation" <me>
/wait 2
/echo USE MACRO 3 NOW
/ac "Ingenuity II" <me>
/wait 2
/ac "Byregot's Blessing" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me>
/wait 3
/ac "Careful Synthesis II" <me> -
10-22-2013, 04:26 AMTrystWildkey
Thank you to everyone who posted their strategies, I really appreciate it!
I've copied all of your notes, and instead of working today, I'll be pretending to work, but in actuality will be comparing everyone's strategies for later practice.
I hadn't thought of using Byregot's Blessing, I think I had the impression that it removed Inner Quiet without letting me use Rumination. I'll have to readjust my skills and practice tonight.
Poor husband will be sent back out into the wilds to gather more materials for me. But hopefully it will all pay off in the end!
Again, I really appreciate the feedback.
You all get a happy Lala dance! :D -
10-22-2013, 10:25 AMMikitaByregot's Blessing does indeed remove Inner Quiet, so you cannot use it together with Rumination.Quote:
Originally Posted by TrystWildkey
Personally, I will use Byregot's over Rumination whenever possible.
Rumination is for those times when I miscalculated and don't have 24 CP for Byregot's at the end. In those cases the 40 ~ 60 CP from Rumination gives me the chance to perform a few more actions to try to save the situation, but it usually doesn't equal the quality gain I could have gotten from Byregot's Blessing. ^^;