A Question Regarding INT and MND Allocation for Scholar

So I've just unlocked Scholar for myself. I figured that I'd pool all stats into INT for my Arcanist and use Cleric Stance to properly heal as Scholar. Strangely, it seems that when I turn Cleric Stance on and my INT is less than MND, I seem to be healing for less (about 30-40 hp for my level). When it's off and MND is more than INT, I'm healing much less. Is there a bug that I'm unaware of or is this an actual feature?

The problem with what you're trying to do - and I've considered doing it as well - is that you're only taking your Attribute Points into account. All your gear has Mind on it, and when you switch to Cleric Stance, all those gear stats are tossed out the window, and you're trying to rely on the 30 points you put into INT.

Also, Cleric's Stance lowers healing output by 20%, so even if you could run around in full gear with INT instead of Mind, you would still be gimping yourself by 20%. Because if you put all your points into Mind and wore Mind gear, it would equal roughly what your INT would equal with 30 INT points, and DPS gear.

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Originally Posted by peaches

The problem with what you're trying to do - and I've considered doing it as well - is that you're only taking your Attribute Points into account. All your gear has Mind on it, and when you switch to Cleric Stance, all those gear stats are tossed out the window, and you're trying to rely on the 30 points you put into INT.

Also, Cleric's Stance lowers healing output by 20%, so even if you could run around in full gear with INT instead of Mind, you would still be gimping yourself by 20%. Because if you put all your points into Mind and wore Mind gear, it would equal roughly what your INT would equal with 30 INT points, and DPS gear.

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Ah, I must have not paid attention to the description for Cleric Stance. Or was it changed some time after beta?

I understand what you mean now, thanks. I guess buying the stat reallocation scroll from Grand Companies is the only way to go.

Nope, it's been that way since at least Beta 3.

Pretty much you either pump INT and go SMN, or pump MND and go SCH. You have to use that GC item to switch.

If you absolutely must have the best of both worlds, I'd advise rolling with mind.

Having reduced heals endangers your party; as a healer you owe them to do your job right, whereas the minor loss of DPS while set up as a summoner is not so noticable or detrimental. I mean I wouldn't advise you try run titan as a SMN if you dumped into mind, but as a SCH main, when I sometimes need to run SMN I still put out enough DPS to clear demon wall and the like; which is where it counts.

Pump VIT. Easily the most important state in the game atm.

In other words, Cleric Stance should be available to summoners where it would actually do some good, and not to scholars?

Why would Cleric Stance do good on SMNs? Even with 30points placed in MND a SMNs INT is still going to be higher. When Cleric Stance is active it switches those two stats AND cuts your healing spells % cure. It is useful on SCH cause we can DPS as well as cure. SMN has zero use for it thanks to the cure % down it gives.

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Originally Posted by Maku

Why would Cleric Stance do good on SMNs? Even with 30points placed in MND a SMNs INT is still going to be higher. When Cleric Stance is active it switches those two stats AND cuts your healing spells % cure. It is useful on SCH cause we can DPS as well as cure. SMN has zero use for it thanks to the cure % down it gives.

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That's half right. When CS is active, it switches your Mind and INT attributes as well as reduces healing by 20%, but it ALSO increases damage by 10% (unless it was changed recently). This makes it useful for any SCH with free time on their hands, and useful for SMN as well since they're supposed to be damaging instead of healing anyway.

Is 10% damage worth the overall loss in INT?

There is always the option to go 15 int 15 mind. You can very safely do all conent pre-coils this way, and honestly if you are taking either class into coils you'd probably be investing so muchgear and mythic that the commitment to just one won't be too hard to make.

That said, I just went 15/15 and have both relics. You're not gimped THAT much this way, granted 15 points is the amount you get from a ilvl90 accessory, so its not negligible.

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Originally Posted by Zanika

This makes it useful for any SCH with free time on their hands, and VERY useful for SMN since they're supposed to be damaging instead of healing anyway.

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Summoners do not have access to cleric stance.

The concern of Int vs. Mind on an Arcanist is one that truly means less and less as you level up. I opt'd to reset my stats and put the points into MND as I felt they offered a greater benefit to Scholar than INT augmented Summoner. My logic is you gain a big boost in your primary stat with your job crystal. A summoner with +0 stat points invested in INT will still be a very powerful offensive caster. A scholar with +0 mind will still be a fully functional healer, but the class functions on the principle of smaller heals more often. Anything I could do to skew those numbers up a little bit made a big difference when it came to fast recovery times after the tank or group took a big shot.

The bottom line is it really doesn't matter, so do what you enjoy. VIT is never a bad idea, though as a Scholar you have a dedicated healbot fairy that drastically improves your lifespan. As such I never saw VIT as critical beyond what I could find on gear. Piety seems like a neat idea because it would help both scholar and summoner, but after playing I've discovered that Scholars really don't need any help supporting their mana pools & are fantastic long term healers.

In my (more limited) time as a summoner I felt myself often dipping into an MP deficit. So piety could perhaps be quite beneficial as a summoner considering Aetherflow restores a % of your max MP rather than a hard number.

"Stance Dancing" is the biggest reason I went with MND over INT as a scholar. It grants you the capacity to have the best of both worlds.
Flip on Cleric Stance
DoT stuff as you have time
Turn stance off
Heal as needed

Your dots maintain the +10% damage boost when you drop stance, and you do not suffer the 20% healing loss by dropping stance. It's an instant cast ability that ignores global cool down. It essentially costs you no time other than moments spent pushing the button.

The extra mind points are slick for me as a Summoner -- as a person that primarily plays a healer I'm conscious of the need to spot heal group members in a pinch. A few extra hps here and there can make all the difference.

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

If you absolutely must have the best of both worlds, I'd advise rolling with mind.

Having reduced heals endangers your party; as a healer you owe them to do your job right, whereas the minor loss of DPS while set up as a summoner is not so noticable or detrimental. I mean I wouldn't advise you try run titan as a SMN if you dumped into mind, but as a SCH main, when I sometimes need to run SMN I still put out enough DPS to clear demon wall and the like; which is where it counts.

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In this thread this is the post I agree with most. Minor dip in DPS is no where near as harmful as smaller heals.

Like Nexfilius said switch into cleric stance put out your three Dots then switch back the dots keep the damage increase. Same as the fairy summon her with cleric stance off then switch it on Eos/Selene keep the same mind stats as when you summoned them so you can be dps while they heal.

I'm currently working on lvling up ACN to get SCH. I already have a lv50WHM and I love it but I want both ends of the spectrum. I'm planning on putting INT for point allocation up to SCH quest. Once I get SCH I'm gonna re-allocate points into MND and then use Cleric Stance only while applying DoTs then remove it to heal. I do that now with WHM anyways so I'm used to the mechanic. I can see it being very beneficial with minor hassle. Does Cleric Stance effect get applied to your pet as well when SCH?

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Originally Posted by Euphe

I'm planning on putting INT for point allocation up to SCH quest. Once I get SCH I'm gonna re-allocate points into MND and then use Cleric Stance only while applying DoTs then remove it to heal. I do that now with WHM anyways so I'm used to the mechanic. I can see it being very beneficial with minor hassle. Does Cleric Stance effect get applied to your pet as well when SCH?

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Are you saying you want to play both SMN and SCH and go +15int/+15mnd? Either way, it's best to go full MND if you play SCH. It has been mentioned above, having lesser heals will hurt you more than the minor decrease in DPS for the SMN.

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Originally Posted by Euphe

Does Cleric Stance effect get applied to your pet as well when SCH?

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I've not really tested this, but your pet's stats seem to be based on yours. It's always been my impression that your fairy's output for each spell is based on your stats at the time she casts it -- just like your spells' outputs are based on your stats at the time you cast it.

What I mean by that is I've never noticed cleric stance to affect your fairy at the time of summoning -- but rather at the time she's casting. If you stay in Cleric Stance, then your mind stat will likely take a dip since you're swapping your bigger Mind stat into Int for supporting DPS (and don't forget you are SUPPORTING dps in a group.. though you are quite formidable!). Since your fairy's stats are based on yours HER mind stat will be lower as well while you're in stance. It's not a HUGE difference, but it's noticeable.

Drop out of stance and her heals go back up because your mind stat went back up.

This is all another very good reason to use mouseover macros for healing. Now that your debuffs are forced to the left of the debuff stack it's quite easy for you to see what DoTs are in effect as well as how much longer they'll be running.

I always keep the boss targeted. Always. In those little moments you're not actively throwing a heal, then drop at least your instant cast DoTs like Bio/Aero. If you have time to drop Bio II, Miasma, even Thunder, then great! But don't forget your role in the group.

That multi-taskability is where Scholar truly shines. It's a hybrid class, but unlike most hybrids it really doesn't pale in comparison to a more singularly focused class (White/Black Mages for instance). You proactively reduce healing required by contributing to the DPS pool of a group.

There are a lot of misconceptions about fairy stats, which is surprising because it's so easy to test.

Cleric stance and any other external stat buff (ie mind potions) have no effect on your fairy.

A fairy's stats are determined as a snapshot of your character's baseline stats + equipment stats at the time of the summon. Stat change from cleric stance and potions are ignored. You can also strip naked after summoning it and your fairy will retain the same stat values.

The purpose of Cleric Stance is to give healers the ability to deal damage while soloing. It's not supposed to be the thing you used to cheat your stats when playing ACN.

If you want to be a SCH, put all your spare points into MND, gear for MND, and the large boost to MND provided by your soul crystal will give you what you need.