Welp, 2.1 is going ot be a happy time for warriors!

From Reinhart's translation of the dev letter this morning.

y; people are saying war is weak so I wanted to go over that
y; people are comparing war to pld, the main part is the bahamut 1 and 4
y; this is our miss, and I apologize, the boss monster has buffs
y; once the boss has 3 buffs stacked up the tank won’t be able to pass
y; it’s set up that way
y; but PLD is able to live through it and that wasn’t supposed to be that way
y; PLD was able to pass that, and we’re talking about what to do this
y; changing the system isn’t good, so we have to make it where WAR can do what PLD can do
y; so we’ll make it where WAR can be good here as well
y; I went to Ifrit HM with WHM, tank needs to stop everything
y; they need to stop eruption and all that so I think it’s really hard to tank
y; the plan we had for Brutal Swing which uses GCD and PLD can use over
y; so it takes longer to use, so we’ll make adjustments to make it faster
y; people also are testing 2rath and use gensho (english?? the healing one)
y; You should wait for heal before using gensho as you get more heal
y; PLD has high VIT but with WAR you can heal about same amount and if you have wrath on you’ll take much more.
y; if you heal after wrath the buff is gone so you’ll get lower hp
y; how you run through the pattern is really hard
y; for healers if the WAR uses gensho it’s hard to heal
y; for that reason people think WAR is softer tank than PLD
y; so we think this is bit too hard so we’ll be making changes in 2.1
y; we got about 7 topics to change for WAR
y; just because we had the issue where PLD was able to pass the bahamut with this method
y; we need to make these changes now.
y; we won’t make it harder on the content so please don’t worry

Gensho of course being IB. Basically, PLD's are too strong, but they realize that proper IB usage requires the healer be in sync to prevent overhealing, which is too rough, so they're making life easier.

Also chat of bards getting nerfed and dragoons/monks getting QoL changes to make fights like titan less stressful.

Good, I might start playing it again.

Excellent, thank you for the news. Will be interesting to see where they take it.

Summary

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Originally Posted by Bayohne

In Regards to WAR
The Binding Coil of Bahamut
Especially for Turn 1 and 4, strategies have been employed that the development team hadn't considered (such as only using paladins to live through multiple stacks of a buff the boss has), and a situation has developed where paladins are favored over warrior. We apologize for this. In patch 2.1 we will be making adjustments so that warriors can do the content that paladins can do.

Adjustments to Stun
A warrior’s stun is different than paladin’s in the sense that it can be used at any time separate from the global cooldown, which is an advantage, but for specific content where stuns need to performed multiple times or with precise timing, it’s difficult to utilize warrior’s stun, so we will be making adjustments in patch 2.1 to improve its usability.

We also plan for a variety of other adjustments for warrior in patch 2.1.

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The two jobs I play the most are getting changes, so I'm excited to see how they implement things. I'm not at endgame yet, but the warrior's stun being on such a long cooldown always sucked in many situations. I would rather it be 1 sec long and on low cooldown than the way it is now.

Well as a warrior doing coil this sounds exciting. But Really SE when is this 2.1 coming...
Im bored of farming for gils waiting for this update. I heard it might only come late december...really if it is true i might not be on the game anymore.

Pretty sad we dont get a few hard mode dungeons (from leveling) to keep us busy.

So it was more a matter of PLD being too strong. Still don't know how Yoshi got use out of storm path.
Nice that they'll buff WAR over nerfimg PLD, nerfs suck

glad to know! monk and warrior getting buffed, both are class i played atm lol

Glad they finally came to their senses.

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Originally Posted by Krenen

Well as a warrior doing coil this sounds exciting. But Really SE when is this 2.1 coming...
Im bored of farming for gils waiting for this update. I heard it might only come late december...really if it is true i might not be on the game anymore.

Pretty sad we dont get a few hard mode dungeons (from leveling) to keep us busy.

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It was stated long ago that major content updates like 2.1 would be coming every three months. So based on that logic, we get late Nov-Early Dec for 2.1. If you don't have the patience to wait for 4-6 weeks for new content then I don't think it's actually possible to satisfy you.

4-6 weeks man lets be real...how many dungeon do you have at lvl 50 ????

One weak palace and a fun but overfarmed Adampor...oh wait and one raid that u cant even farm coz it's once a week...

Well i think i can say this is NOT much and many people will leave if they dont release more PVE content. How many dungeon do we have while leveling...x3 this or so...

I enjoy playing my warrior, and I like how it plays now. While I do like the idea of being buffed a bit, this news overly scares me.

I am worried that they will over buff us and we will become the new FOTM, drawing much of the crowd as Bards and Lancers did as first.

I am also worried that they will simplify the class; this I dread the most as I love how my warrior plays and could not bring myself to playing a class as easy as paladin.

I really hope they don't go overboard with warrior changes. Just make us equal to paladins in efficiency, but please, please, don't over do it.

I don't like the IB change. I think that management of this skill separates good warriors from bad. This is disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Krenen

4-6 weeks man lets be real...how many dungeon do you have at lvl 50 ????

One weak palace and a fun but overfarmed Adampor...oh wait and one raid that u cant even farm coz it's once a week...

Well i think i can say this is NOT much and many people will leave if they dont release more PVE content. How many dungeon do we have while leveling...x3 this or so...

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since im not a legacy player, i can spend time leveling other class including DoH and mastering them
if you can farm bcob, it will be even more boring faster

ppl play at different pace, you maybe bored but there is a lot of ppl who still enjoy the game playing at their own pace

I cried manly tears when I saw Warrior will be getting changed/improved.

<3

What? i dont see how war is getting improved at all, other than making stun more requent? they arent changing the way war works in the coil, they are making it so pld have just as much trouble as war past 3 stacks. That sounds like a nerf to pld tank, not a buff to war. they literally say, if you want to be a tank like PLD, dont ever use your inner beast? so we are a self-healing tank that gets punished for self-healing by lower crit rates and lower heals from healers. wha tkind of BS is that

Will they put the HP bonus gained in Wrath V into defiance itself? He said that losing the extra hp when using inner beast kind of defeats the purpose which is true, so maybe that's how they will fix it. Would that be OP?

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Originally Posted by Jonjey

Will they put the HP bonus gained in Wrath V into defiance itself? He said that losing the extra hp when using inner beast kind of defeats the purpose which is true, so maybe that's how they will fix it. Would that be OP?

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from how i read it, they didnt say they were changing anything.. they are suggesting that if you dont want to be squishy, dont use your wrath.

edit: youre right, it does say adjustment

I just hope they make the right changes. Too little and we're still not on par with PLD. Too much and we become the new PLD (or the old WAR from 1.0). I suppose this is the trouble with balance in any game, I just hope they at least don't sell us short - I'd rather they over buffed us then made slight tweaks from there. At least they know IB needs to be adjusted...

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Originally Posted by Krenen

one raid that u cant even farm coz it's once a week...

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Why is this a shocker.....?

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

I just hope they make the right changes. Too little and we're still not on par with PLD. Too much and we become the new PLD (or the old WAR from 1.0). I suppose this is the trouble with balance in any game, I just hope they at least don't sell us short - I'd rather they over buffed us then made slight tweaks from there. At least they know IB needs to be adjusted...

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The cycle of buff and nerf is always like this. I agree that sometimes an over-buff is a necessary thing, it just happens if the math is isn't perfect and it's better than being afraid to make a class too strong and letting it be terrible forever and ever, which happens too often in MMOs and results in some classes never being wanted ever. FFXI was notorious for this, if you were the wrong class you either re-rolled the right class or you never got into a party for literally years and you could not play the game period.

I am gald to hear Warrior Class Issues are being adressed.

I really hope they get the balance right and we end up with a balanced and fun class to play.

if i understood well they are gonna change the kick so its works like the PLD and buff Inner beast so when we use it while a heal has alrdy launch a heal the overheal will not be lost. Like a shield same as Scholar or a %reduction of incoming damage thats all we need.

Thought the frontier of Opness is close so i hope they wont cross it ^^
But id love the idea of double inner beast that shields me for 3k.

awesome , I have both lvl 50 paladin and warrior so any changes to make one better is good .

Warrior does slightly more dps than paladin so I would rather play warrior as tank if they were as good as paladin .

So whatever they do is good.

From my understanding of the letter Warrior's Brutal Swing will be getting a lower cool down in favor of making fights like Ifrit where the tank should be responsible for completely negating eruption, as the cool down really prevents a warrior from also legitimately stunning targets for unclear reasons which they want to get rid of.

He's also mentioned that the Warrior's utilization of Wrath's bonus to healing because healers can't heal their additional health pool sufficiently because warriors use their Inner Beast inappropriately. From the allusion it looks as though they're planning on addressing the bonus to healing on wrath without anything on Inner Beast itself.

In summary: lower CD on Brutal Swing and they're going to change how our bonus to healing handles *after* Inner Beast. Anything within these bounds won't be "game breaking" as it sounds as little more than a crutch for warriors with timing problems.

The only "problem" with Yoshi's thought on how WAR should have utilized IB is that the timing becomes critical on some fights. Simply waiting for cures with any poor timing on the mage(s)'s part (and with very little in the way of meaningful preemptive cool-downs) can easily lead to death; imo, this is a big oversight when WAR's most notable action (Inner Beast) is a reactive ability that is capable of defying a deadly spike in damage.

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Originally Posted by Skull_Angel

Simply waiting for cures with any poor timing on the mage(s)'s part (and with very little in the way of meaningful preemptive cool-downs) can easily lead to death;

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This is a very good point, and thank you for bringing it up. Factoring in latency and reaction time given the mere seconds one has to finish casting a heal on top of any dodge work needed to stay alive- it's clear the problem wasn't solely on the warrior or the healer(s) as the level of understanding of the boss mechanics and timing would have to rival that of dev and alpha testers which is something few possess. It's a clear and present need and I'm glad they're addressing it for the majority of players.

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Originally Posted by Exrage

Anything within these bounds won't be "game breaking" as it sounds as little more than a crutch for warriors with timing problems.

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Apparently the money from those WARs with timing problems are worth A LOT more than those of a WAR without such problems if they're implementing such a change.

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y; once the boss has 3 buffs stacked up the tank won’t be able to pass
y; it’s set up that way

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Surviving 3 stacks wasn't intended. I'm sorry SE, but did you even test this fight? It wouldn't have taken long to see that DL PLD could survive more than 3.

Great news.

But where are all the people who were sure that both PLD and WAR were perfectly balanced with one another, and everyone just needed to L2P? Do the developers need to L2P now too?

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Originally Posted by BadRNG

Great news.

But where are all the people who were sure that both PLD and WAR were perfectly balanced with one another, and everyone just needed to L2P? Do the developers need to L2P now too?

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busy trying to process how (in their mind) a forum troll could be right about devs being wrong

that or they never really cared in the first place/were just fed up with anti-class bias and just wanted people to stop complaining

i just may lvl my war now ^^

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Originally Posted by Exrage

From my understanding of the letter Warrior's Brutal Swing will be getting a lower cool down in favor of making fights like Ifrit where the tank should be responsible for completely negating eruption, as the cool down really prevents a warrior from also legitimately stunning targets for unclear reasons which they want to get rid of.

He's also mentioned that the Warrior's utilization of Wrath's bonus to healing because healers can't heal their additional health pool sufficiently because warriors use their Inner Beast inappropriately. From the allusion it looks as though they're planning on addressing the bonus to healing on wrath without anything on Inner Beast itself.

In summary: lower CD on Brutal Swing and they're going to change how our bonus to healing handles *after* Inner Beast. Anything within these bounds won't be "game breaking" as it sounds as little more than a crutch for warriors with timing problems.

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y; we got about 7 topics to change for WAR



That's reinhardt's translation, which was transcribed, translated, and reworded as he was saying it, so nuance is loss, he actually said something to the effect of "We have 7 areas we're looking at for the warrior."

I.e. the IB/BS changes were mentioned, but they are by no means the extent of the changes.

If they wanted tanks to die on 3 stacks, they'll have to also see if they can a) future proof these changes so when they make mechanics next time around PLD doesn't break them again b) start throwing out unmitigated damage.

Should we guess what these 7 areas are?

Damage
Mitigation
GCDs
Skills
Cross class Skills
Stats
Coil
???
Profit?

Quite honestly, I don't want to be more OP than paladins. I want to be on equal footing and stick my foot up the asses of people who looked down on us when we outskill these paladins.

wow… just, wow…
People are complaining that WAR is getting buffed? Really? We don't even know what those buff are?

Let them make the changes, if it doesn't work then voice your concerns… not before.

I feel i have to lay down a big "I told you so" to all the chicken$#!% nay-sayners that don't like WAR tanks...

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Originally Posted by calamityz

Should we guess what these 7 areas are?

Damage
Mitigation
GCDs
Skills
Cross class Skills
Stats
Coil
???
Profit?

Quite honestly, I don't want to be more OP than paladins. I want to be on equal footing and stick my foot up the asses of people who looked down on us when we outskill these paladins.

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Well if you want to guess what the 7 are, it's probably the 7 obviously broken things about WAR:

(1) Damage taken vs. PLD
(2) Effective healing vs. PLD
(3) Wrath mechanics
(4) Defiance
(5) Storm's Eye
(6) Steel Cyclone
(7) Unchained

That doesn't even begin to touch on how terrible WAR CDs are compared to PLD CDs. That needs to be addressed too.

Also, Flash needs to Blind for WAR the same way it does for PLD. In fact all our cross-class skills are an absolute joke because we don't get the bonuses, so our Convalescence, Flash, Second Wind, Awareness, and Mantra are total garbage trash compared to the skills on their respective jobs.

There's a lot of buffing that needs to be done before WAR is on par with PLD. In general, until I can lead a 10 minutes speedrun of WP the way PLD can, I will not be satisfied with whatever buffs Yoshi has in mind. That's the bar I want set for our buffs.

I originally wanted to be a warrior, until my brother said, trust me bro you're not going to get any groups as a war, so I switched. Can't wait until they are on par with each other, considering I Leveled both classes. Luckily DL works for both :). So all my time gearing my pld isn't for naught. Go war!

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Originally Posted by Anthreas

I originally wanted to be a warrior, until my brother said, trust me bro you're not going to get any groups as a war, so I switched. Can't wait until they are on par with each other, considering I Leveled both classes. Luckily DL works for both :). So all my time gearing my pld isn't for naught. Go war!

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You shouldn't be having any problems (Barring HM Titan) until Coil, and even then you can squeeze in a spot as a OT in some turns, but yes, extremely happy this is being adressed. Hopefully they will fix the counter-intuitiveness of using our best heal to lose our healing bonus.

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Originally Posted by Yagrush

You shouldn't be having any problems (Barring HM Titan) until Coil, and even then you can squeeze in a spot as a OT in some turns, but yes, extremely happy this is being adressed. Hopefully they will fix the counter-intuitiveness of using our best heal to lose our healing bonus.

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The current issue with the community (pre-Titan) against WAR tanks is that the higher-end players have already stated "lolWAR" so the largely-uninformed majority see this as "WAR must be a bad tank for everything."; this is followed by the fact that many upcoming tanks seem to have issues with learning the ins-and-outs of their job and PLD is just more forgiving with the strength of it's cool-downs and sustainability of resources.

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Originally Posted by Skull_Angel

The current issue with the community (pre-Titan) against WAR tanks is that the higher-end players have already stated "lolWAR" so the largely-uninformed majority see this as "WAR must be a bad tank for everything."; this is followed by the fact that many upcoming tanks seem to have issues with learning the ins-and-outs of their job and PLD is just more forgiving with the strength of it's cool-downs and sustainability of resources.

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That's a very accurate assessment. Unfortunately, people throw out very sensationalized information (i.e. "War sucks") and out of context, which leads into more misinformation.

Hell, a few days ago during a HM Ifrit run, I was told by a PLD that WARs couldn't tank Ifrit and that "They would be eaten alive". It's getting ridiculous.