So what are the formal tank jobs' opinion of Summoners and our tank pets?
Love them? Hate them? Useful or not?
Throughout the game I've found numerous uses for Topaz/Titan in parties. Usually as an "OH !@#$!" measure when things go south, but also for helping the main tank out with adds or kiting bosses. I've also tanked high level FATE bosses, as well as Aiatar and the final boss of Darkhold on many different occasions. Most recently I co-tanked the Tonberry King. Only twice have I ever gotten lip for using "a tank pet" in a dungeon sequence, but I wonder what the actual tanks have to say about it?
Tank Jobs' Opinion on Summoners Tanking
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10-18-2013, 02:27 AMDarkswordTank Jobs' Opinion on Summoners Tanking
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10-18-2013, 02:29 AMSeriat
You spanked it, you tank it.
Seriously tho as a PLD my rule is this: If I lost hate from something I did/didn't do, I will do w/e I have to do to get it back. If you pull hate because you have no self control, enjoy tanking the mob! :D -
10-18-2013, 02:34 AMHachiko
I would like to see more summoners tanking stuff with titan pet.
In fact I now wonder if this is a strat that would work on turn 4. I don't know how much healing titan pet really requires, but if it could pick up a knight or a soldier that would be awesome. Probably can't though, given how much healing is going out. -
10-18-2013, 02:36 AMPaikis
For anything that matters, your tank pet is useless.
For things that don't matter, you're slowing us down by not using a damage pet.
Titan is worthless in groups. -
10-18-2013, 02:42 AMTronic^Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
/10char -
10-18-2013, 02:50 AMLumines
It was useful once when I was in AK doing a huge pull. Healer was absent minded and died to Dullahan cleaving. If they don't release right away, I'm sure brez would have solved any issues, but every situation is different. Summoner swiftcast summoned titan egi to split the amount damage I would take and we avoided a full a wipe. However, for that one instance of usefulness, it has also been a huge source of grief especially on mobs/bosses with cleave pulling a fast one on everyone. Tact is key here, use your better judgement and for the most part (99% of the time), we want you to DPS, not help us tank. So a Garuda is prefered. This has nothing to do with if the titan is tanky enough, i just prefer to have full control of mob positioning when I'm tanking and not leave it to a pet.
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10-18-2013, 03:04 AMDarkswordNaturally. I never use a tank unless its part of a strategy agreed to by the party. The only exception was like the other night in WP when the Stalker herded us into two big groups of skeletons and the tank suddenly died. Titan held them off for a few precious seconds while Res and Raise got cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lumines
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10-18-2013, 03:17 AMKoltik
I would be annoyed, honestly. There is no reason for a tank to not be able to tank dungeon content by himself. If you have a bad tank, then sure use Titan; otherwise please stick to DPS pets.
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10-18-2013, 03:19 AMcalamityz
I would just leave the group if the summoner thinks this could be viable at all.
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10-18-2013, 03:29 AMAurelious
Low level example, but honestly Summoner using Titan in Sunken Temple of Qarn is a blessing. With the Final Sting bees, Titan aggro's one and just dies to it, PLD can grab the second one, dps focus it then go back to primary mob (either the 1st boss or just whatever else is in the trash pack you are working on. For the second boss switch to Ifrit. For the third boss (Abjudicator) what we actually did was let titan tank him while I (PLD) tanked and handled the Sun Jurors while DPS focused on boss. This way we go ahead and get them out of the way so they don't cause issue.. Found that SMN did not do well killing the ForceField Verges so Titan would tank while Me and DRG would go kill those to prevent the Force Pulse, then go back to working on the Abjudicator. Regardless enjoyed this and honestly do not see why in basic dungeons and lower content that titan couldn't tank if you wanted an alternate way. Of course, people always want the quickest but sometimes it's nice to switch it up a bit.
So me personally? Doesn't bother me unless it's a boss that has frontal AoE and Titan is causing more people to get hit than should. Otherwise, a pet is renewable source of HP, I am not so for adds and stuff its not the worst idea. But it requires a lot of coordination. -
10-18-2013, 03:52 AMDarksword
Interesting that there's a lot of conflicting opinions on this.
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10-18-2013, 04:46 AMTeleniel
There are a few times I find tank pets useful... Temple of Qarn bees are a good example. pretty much any content up to level 20 they make it easier on the healer, and still provide decent DPS.... but most of the time I don't need/want them tanking adds.
Now if you plan to pull something and run away from me with it.... you might want titan because after about 5~10 seconds i'm letting you keep it. -
10-18-2013, 04:50 AMHachikoOh really?Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
http://www.twitch.tv/lleuca/c/3072571 -
10-18-2013, 04:50 AMLemon8or
Or you know focus the bees when they spawn so they don't get to do Final Sting? Summoners should have dots on boss already and can just use Bane to spread it to the bees to kill them quick enough. For Abjudicator, you can tank both the Sun Jurors and the boss. I haven't had any problem even when tanking at 35 on warrior. You can also tank the boss near the closer platform to the spawn spot to grab them as soon as they spawn and kill them on the platform. You can also help dpsing the Verges while tanking the boss, just make sure you have healer enter it with you since you can't heal yourself like warrior.
Personally, I haven't found Titan to be too helpful. I once ran AK with Titan tank, 3 DPS (SMN+MNK+BRD) and a healer but it's easy enough with 4 relic. -
10-18-2013, 04:50 AMCyanDvai
The thing I find amusing, there was a thread a while back about 2 or 3 summoners using Titan to tank dungeons. Their comment was if they gave Titan about 5 seconds to generate hate they could then go all out and dps down the mobs.
My comment was that Titan was lucky to get 5 seconds before dps starts on the mob where as us PLD's and WAR's are lucky if we even get 2 seconds.
But I digress, I agree, if you have a tank you're better off with a dps pet, now if the tank goes down and you can pull him out to finish a fight, go for it. -
10-18-2013, 04:54 AMMyrhn
Titan-egi is an awsome tank on the last bos of Praetorium.
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10-18-2013, 04:55 AMNabianI still feel in this instance that it would be more beneficial if the tank dies if you have time to summon your pet then you probably have the time to swiftcast rez the tank and your better off.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyanDvai
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10-18-2013, 05:37 AMNonlinear314
Summoners are the WoW Huntards of FFXIV. A few are good but most are really bad, really really bad, especially the ones that go through DF.
Summoner is there to DPS not there tank. Tank pets just lower DPS so don't use them. If DPS can't get the bees down then Titan will only make that worse, if DPS can't kill bees before Final Sting then they are simply bad. That is the point of the Final Sting mechanic, sacrificing Titan is just a crutch for bad DPS.
Honestly I wish summoners would just go away.
~0~
On Adjudicator, you don't need to tank the sun jurors, that's overthinking things. All it does is potentially get the rest of the group hit by Adjudicator's cone attack.
Just have the other three people in the group stack on a glowing tile, let the healer agg pull the head to the tile and burn it down while the tank stays in the middle of the room tanking the boss. I've done temple 5x through DF and have only wiped on the last boss once at < 5%. -
10-18-2013, 06:08 AMDartFxThat was amazing xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko
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10-18-2013, 06:38 AMPaikisMy point stands. Titan hard Mode is a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko
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10-18-2013, 06:46 AMTronicThey had 4 healers and most of the players were ridiculously overgeared. I remember back in the day seeing onyxia being tanked by a shadow priest in vanilla wow. Then again his group was ridiculously overgeared too. Not really a good example of a real life application.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hachiko
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10-18-2013, 07:15 AMDarkswordThe endless, endless, ENDLESS threads complaining about his difficulty would seem to disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paikis
I appreciate the positive comments so far though. For my own opinion as a career SMN (9 years in FFXI and now capped in XIV), my job is to do more than just be one of the party's DDs. Looking for ways to make the party's life easier, like reducing the amount of damage the tank eats from adds and thereby also reducing stress on the healer, is my foremost concern. It isn't something you do where it isn't welcomed, of course. Sometimes "sit in the back, manage Garuda and cast" is still the most perfect option. Still, its nice to know some tanks will welcome us as partners when the situation calls for it. -
10-18-2013, 01:00 PMZikh
The tanking pets are damn irritating. If the tank does his job properly you're being an idiot if you're trying to make his/her job more difficult.
If the tank doesn't know what he/she is doing, you can use the pet as training wheels. I've done about 10 instance runs with my arcanist, in 4 of them I had to use tanking pet to keep the healer alive. -
10-18-2013, 01:01 PMNZ_PlayerQuote:
Originally Posted by Zikh
i disagree as the pet and tank will be competing for threat and the tank will run out of tricks long before the pet does essentially making the new tank useless and not teaching them anything -
10-18-2013, 01:27 PMRapBreon
I reckon it could tank Cad and if the egi has a player controlled taunt, ADS as well. T4 would be a bit more of a challenge due to movement being so important. Regardless you'd have to replace the OT with a DPS for it to be a worthwhile strategy, but if you could do it, oooooooooh boy it'd be awesome. If I had a summoner in my group I'd try it.
From back when I viewed it; they had one healer was DPSing and one was a complete gooba. So only two healers really. Mountain busters didn't even get the egi into a dangerous amount of health. I do agree with them being over-geared however.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronic
But it has more fucking health than an over-geared Warrior with food. If it has like ANY decent duration % mitigation skills, it's already gunna be a better BC tank than a WAR in static low movement fights :P -
10-18-2013, 08:26 PMCaraway
Just... No. You are not only gimping yourself by using the tank pet in the vast majority of group encounters (there will always be exceptions but they are admittedly rare) but you are actually putting your party in danger.
All it takes is your tank pet grabbing aggro from the tank at the wrong time, turning the mob and the whole party getting hit with a cleave.
You need spectacular pet control to make it viable, and even still you're better off using a DPS pet to just burn the targets instead of trying to spread aggro amongst targets.
Again, there are fringe cases (the bees are a good idea if your DPS is poor) but the vast majority of the time you are wasting your MP summoning it, and wasting a Swiftcast CD that could be saved for something more life saving. -
10-19-2013, 12:11 AMTanaya
The vid posted isn't really a good example to base off of due to how heavily overgeared everyone is (plus they had 4 healers. Goodness.).
Not to mention if you die, then Titan-Egi goes away.