What I really don't understand is:
Why is SE doing everything they can to alter the game to something that people don't seem to want? Especially the XI fraction. I'm all for a new approach if it's fun and dandy but XIV can't be called that in my oppinion, sadly. :(
I don't think this game must copy everything that is XI, but then again the things XIV did so far aren't exactly what I hoped for.
While we even had a poll stating that must people who currently play this game come from XI, and even the devs said they want to develop for fans of XI firstly, then fans of MMOs and lastly for players in general, why can't I see this?
Some things that come to mind (while probably each of them is a minor annoyance, in total they make me feel as if I'd rather not want to see what XIV is going to become) are
stuff like the removed caracter collision (now I do feel even more like a ghost), the aggro indicator (where is the adventure in knowing everything beforehand?), quests (XIV's missions) that are not only easy but soloable (maybe this changes after r26?) and so on. There are more things like that but I think you get the idea by now. :rolleyes:
Maybe I'm wrong with what I stated above so I hope I can find some enlightment with an upcoming discussion. :D What are your thoughts about it? Thank you!
The direction XIV is heading
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03-08-2011, 10:53 PMPayadopaThe direction XIV is heading
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03-08-2011, 10:56 PMRhianu
I have no opinion on the character collision issue one way or another, but I personally like the aggro icon and the Sidequests, even if I do think they both could use a significant amount of improvement.
Ever since Tanaka got booted off the team, the game has taken a turn for the better! Even FFXI is getting better now, too, with a new director in charge. ;)
Hiromichi Tanaka just never really understood how to listen to players. :( -
03-08-2011, 11:00 PMSephr
FFXI was a niche-game that failed to continue to attract customers due to the fact it was challenging to get into and required a huge amount of actual work before you could call it fun.
The things you stated were just minor inconveniences that have been alleviated, you'll get used to them in time and they really aren't that big a deal considering how much fuss is being kicked up. -
03-08-2011, 11:00 PMWhax
Not everyone share the same opinion. Collision it's good for realism purposes, but start to get annoying on the long run. Aggro indicator it's just mehhh, but doesn't affect the game very much and the sidequests are just all right, but need some adjusts. But overall I think they are going to the right way.
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03-08-2011, 11:01 PMKirith
It's a complex topic. After all, they decided to make a whole new game when the best choice was clearly to remake FFXI, which has a fantastic atmosphere but runs on an obsolete engine and overall lacks modernity.
It would have been easy to make it almost the same, then tweak single features bit by bit....
Instead, without having an extensive experience with mmorpgs, they decided to make a new game as they saw fit, following some evidently wrong and arbitrary ideas. They cannot transform it into FFXI-2 now, so they gotta deal with making it new while still nailing the atmosphere old FFXI players are asking for.
It's pretty hopeless, imo. -
03-08-2011, 11:02 PMNeptune
Bring character collision back or make it on by default, I say. It should appeal to:
Players > MMO fans > Final Fantasy fans > people that have diarrhea > FFXI players
in that order.. for a great game! -
03-08-2011, 11:04 PMsomdow
Well nothing is perfect....i agree that some things could be better but....for one, if youre going to make a game, MAKE IT BETTER THAN THE LAST.
at the very least, they shouldve known what type of content to have b4hand from developing ff11.
ive stuck with this one primarily because i DID play 11 and i recognize that the devs are admitting faults and also making up for them as they go along...its not something ppl who paid 60$ for want to hear...but they could have just as easily gave up and went the way of APB mmo where it failed almost INSTANTLY lol.
so i have to respect that....i ALSO respect that withing this mistake, theyre not charging anyone any $$$ for now.
another point you have to give props for. is it ideal? course not...but better than them giving up and them dropping it.
with the way the game looks (visually now) if they add ff11 type content to get us going, and then switch it up with the new content im happy.
oh and PS....character collision...i KINDA agree but...the other day, i was in uldah trying to make my way into the adventurers guild and there were atLEAST 40 ppl on the front steps...i dont think i wouldve been able to get inthere otherwise.
the icon that represents hostile targets....YEAH i do agree it takes away from the "OMG wtf just one shotted me!? " but it kinda also helps lol.
just my .02
i have about....ohhh say...15 games more or less on standby, brand new , in the wrapper waiting for me ....and FF14 just keeps a callin lol. -
03-08-2011, 11:04 PMKirithPerhaps you failed to notice that FFXI was a highly successful game. It had its ups and lows and it never approached WoW player numbers, but it was still one of the most successful mmorpgs around. Heck, it still is...maybe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephr
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03-08-2011, 11:05 PMSephr
I love the irony of so many FFXI players wishing for FFXI-2 (god knows why, that game was horrid for the first 4 years - I was there for at least half of that and pretty much play because friends were) and yet moaning that things like an aggression icon removes the sense of adventure.
If you're asking for the same game, there is no sense of adventure, you're too set in your ways. -
03-08-2011, 11:10 PMKirithMaybe it was horrible *for you*, i'm pretty sure many thousands of others enjoyed it, like myself. And yes, aggression icons remove the chill of hugging a cliff slope hoping that giant gobbue isn't aggressive...Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephr
No one is asking for the "same game", but for a game with a similar atmosphere and features. To at least start with conserving the features that we liked in FFXI before making arbitrary choices everywhere, which is what they are continuing to do almost blindly. -
03-08-2011, 11:14 PMNephera
Man i hug the walls hoping that aggro mob i know is aggro wont start walking in my direction, the dread hasnt changed. Now I'm just sure it wants to kill me.
and I know people who wont play this thinking that'll be too much like XI.
XI may have had good features but it punched casual players right in the crotch, repeatedly. -
03-08-2011, 11:17 PMKirithThe point is conserving the food atmosphere and features, while making its core mechanics more friendly and modern. FFXI follows a very old mmorpg concept...Quote:
Originally Posted by Nephera
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03-08-2011, 11:20 PMNephera
And aggressive mobs took the hit to make the game more friendly and modern.
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03-08-2011, 11:20 PMPayadopaYeah, that's what I do like about XIV but only to a degree. Like I said, I have the feeling that it won't stop with an aggro indicator, so to speak. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Nephera
And yes, soloable quests do bother me. It's definately not like I want to wait another 3 hours just for a party of six so I can finally head out and battle some dragons but not needing a party at all... it's not very MMO-ish. -
03-08-2011, 11:24 PMNepheraThats true, but think of it this way: there's always content you'll only be a-Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
Well ok there SHOULD always be content you can only be able to do with a group, but not being able to find one shouldnt hinder a player's progression.
I definately prefer grouping, i feel the combat flows a lot better in a group than it does solo. But my linkshell isnt very active. -
03-08-2011, 11:26 PMSephr
I'll agree that we need more party-based content, but I think we can rest assured that kind of stuff is on it's way after the battle system restructure. they've said they're going to cut group sizes to 4 and 8 so that pretty much demands rebalancing of just about all party-based content before the update and means theyre likely to be making things with that system in mind (aka. the first dungeon due in 2 months or whenever).
Also, I was addressing this in my post before, so yes, people do want FFXI-2 for some unknown reason.Quote:
After all, they decided to make a whole new game when the best choice was clearly to remake FFXI
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03-08-2011, 11:33 PMLitzor
I think the challenge was one of the most appealing things of XI. At least it was for me. It kept the casual players away and gave you something to work toward that felt fulfilling at the end. Hitting those milestones is what kept me coming back for more.
On the other hand, MMOs like World of Warcraft, Warhammer Online, and now Rift, are mind-numbingly easy and it doesn't feel like something special when you hit level cap or defeat an endgame boss. Heck, I went back to Warhammer for a 2-week welcome back trial and we killed the enemy leader twice in the same day and I got two of the best items in the game for basically just being there.
A challenging but rewarding game is what I'm ultimately looking for in XIV, and I hope they manage to create or enhance that same sense of accomplishment that XI captured. I don't necessarily want another XI, just another challenging MMO. -
03-08-2011, 11:34 PMChardrizardit never reached WoW player numbers for reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirith
FFXI was a successful game, but its not for alot of people.
Yes, many thousands enjoyed FFXI, so did i.
but, how many people/potential customer out there that gave FFXI a try and gave up right away? it was enough people to make FFXI 2-3x profit they are making right now, FFXI was in no way casual friendly and a horrid timesink and i think the shareholders cares about money more than they cares about FFXI-players.
also FFXI would have had failed miserably if it didnt have 'Final Fantasy' label, they had big and loyal fanbase to start it up with. -
03-08-2011, 11:35 PMBeliusFFXI was anything but horrid. SE should have taken FFXI as a template for implementing FFXIV. I'm not saying make an FFXI-2 game but use the concepts that worked in FFXI to build on FFXIV. As of right this moment even after the "patches" FFXIV needs far more structuring and content to even come close to being acceptable as an MMORPG by FF standards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephr
I just feel that SE underestimated the expectations of it's core players and rushed a game that is needless to say unfinished, despite the fact that it is an MMORPG and there will always be content added and changes made. Bottom line is that SE did not prepare a game that lives up to the standards of what is expected by thier core player base. -
03-08-2011, 11:51 PMKirithI never said i want FFXI-2. I just said that considering the game they had when they started making FFXIV the best idea was to remake FFXI and not to risk with another mmorpg.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sephr
As you said, FFXI was pretty bad in the start, but it had a certain charm that kept people disliking it, yet still playing it for years. It almost didn't have casual players while WoW is mostly composed of casual players. I played dozens of mmorpgs and felt FFXI had one of the best communities ever in a game because of that fact alone.
So, the best thing to do would have been to remake that game while making it more casual player friendly, which they KNEW they had to do, but still didn't. Too much greed, i guess, wanting to milk players twice with two games. Now they have one game that is too old to be competitive and another that is too misled to be appealing. -
03-09-2011, 12:06 AMKilta_Firelotus
For those wanting character collision back. Please really think hard about these things.
This is from DCUO another mmo with character collision.
1 players can/will block doorways either by accident or do it on purpose to troll or flame other players. Or even go as far as hold players hostage in protest. (is an on and off happening in dcuo)
2 this is from ffxi
Players in ffxi would go afk in random locations. More offten in the doorway to the mog houses. I've ran into several doors in Jeuno on the servers Lakshmi and Garuda that a wall of players would block it.
If ffxi had Character collision I wouldn't beable to enter the MH's in Jeuno at all. And I would bump into alot of random afk bazaar. And heaven forbid rollan-mart. Try moving around in there.
It was a good move to remove it. DCUO is annoying for having it. -
03-09-2011, 12:10 AMAmyRaeFor a guy who doesn't want FFXI-2, you sure seem to push for it. A lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirith
But the market has spoken on this issue. MMO sequels fail. EQ2. Asheron's Call 2. Lineage 2. They all paled in comparison to their prequels. Why would a player give up their mature, leveled character loaded with hard-fought treasures in a content-rich world just to start again in a very similar, barren world at level 1? Fact is, it doesn't hold the interest of veterans for long who quickly crawl back to the comforts of their old game.
This is why Blizzard didn't make a WoW2, but tried their remade-world Cataclysm expansion instead. They're trying to avoid a sure-fire disaster.
Likewise, FFXI-2 is not the best thing SE could have done. It's actually the worst. -
03-09-2011, 12:14 AMZezlarNo wonder FFXIV is going down the can. >< This makes me sadQuote:
Originally Posted by Neptune
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03-09-2011, 12:14 AMBlitz0309
The whole "agro" icon annoys me. We don't loose exp... why the hell does it matter if you get attacked by a mob because it agros?
Sort of reminds me of how they changed the whole agro system in 11 to prevent trains. You take out some of the excitement and fun. But i might be in the minority.
They should of taken what they learned with 11 and made a new game. Not decide to try everything new, rush to bring it out in a crappy beta like state then piss off their community for months on end. I'm happy they are working on it now... but i've already been told by most of my friends who bought it at release that they are done.. and a MMO without your friends is just a waste of time and money. -
03-09-2011, 12:28 AMKilta_Firelotus
Any chance someone can post a pic of the aggro Icon? I'm waiting on the ps3 version since my pc died when I tried installing ffxiv.
I don't mind the direction its heading. I just want to be able to play the game.
For my personal opinion is this.
As a lurker of many fansites, I come to the conclusion that no one will be happy with ffxiv. It seems everyone has a high standered for new mmo now a days. Due to: they're long time mmo gamers, or been on an established mmo for a long time. Alot of recent mmo releases have bellied up after their initial launch.
So far nothing is "good enough" when it comes to ffxiv. And this kinda makes me sad. You guys on fansites wanted quests for more lore and story. All I seen was how "bad" said quests are due to having no cs or poor rewards. Heck, many posters on fansites expected sp reward for quests. I love how the dev team is taking baby steps adding in a lil at a time while fixing/ changing things. I just hope it will be "up to par" soon so the ps3 version is out. -
03-09-2011, 07:19 AMRhianuNews flash! Keeping casual players away is a very bad idea. An MMO these days needs to appeal to casual gamers if it's going to succeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Litzor
I hate to break it to ya, but FFXIV is far easier than all of those games put together. Seriously, there isn't really anything challenging at all in FFXIV right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Litzor
And there's plenty of challenging content in all three of those other games. Rift especially felt challenging, as even just fighting regular enemies can get you killed if you don't play your cards right and pay attention to what you're doing.
You're probably just mistaking them of being easy simply because it doesn't take three hours to accomplish a single task.
Which enemy leader was it, and what were the items?Quote:
Originally Posted by Litzor
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03-09-2011, 09:42 AMgifthorseI totally agree, I am afraid for what FFXIV is becoming also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Payadopa
I don't want FFXI, in fact I have a deep loathing for that game in many ways, but even FFXI would be better than what the game is turning in to. I am not satisfied with the direction the game is taking. Last patch they did more harm than good; removing mob behaviours, adding aggro-indicators, removing character collission... effectively making the world more lifeless and stale than it already is.
If anything they should be going further with those ideas, not removing them entirely. People are always asking for more interesting mob behaviours (migration, fleeing, mob-to-mob agrression), and yet their answer is to remove it all entirely becomes sometimes it is a mild inconvenience? Convenience isn't the answer when you have to sacrifice immersion.
I just want this game to be better, and i can't see that with the new direction they are taking the game. They are turning it into FFXI/WoW, what with the class-name changes and isntanced zones.
Those games are old and outdated, and if they go further down this path, then I am definitely not following them.