Truth be told that I have no business stating this as a customer and gamer, but I just felt that I needed to do something to ease my subtle frustrations on the subject. Enter this thread, a place where I and perhaps others people can vent a little steam about this game's PVP. I have my concerns and trust me those concerns are well grounded in some pretty darn viable realities.
Warning, this is a huge wall of text cleverly hidden under various sub-titles.
Some Basic Observations
For starters: Let's face it, we don't exactly know much about what SquareEnix is really trying to tackle with their PVP System in a long-term sort of way. We know it's coming in patch 2.1, but is what's coming just a Beta Version? Is what is coming just a bare-bones Arena with a few things to do and stupidly-long wait times to get the gear we want? I don't know about you guys, but that's pretty much what I'm expecting -- and that worries me.
If anything, getting to Final Fantasy XIV's endgame has revealed that SE likes to artificially extend the lifespan of one given game element by limited how much it can be accessed or how many points a play can acquire in a given week. So it is highly likely PVP will get the same treatment, under the impression that slowing down the progress of players will keep PVP fresher for a longer period and allow players a chance to catch up to the big boys, etc etc.
Why An Early Beta Release Would Be Appreciated
Most players really haven't gotten their hands on the PVP system, and those who did just really got to sample it for a couple of days. Certainly SquareEnix has some insider testing groups working on this system. Yet if anything, time and time again it's been proven that this internal testing team just cannot compete with the greater populous of players. I've played many PVP games in my time and boy-howdy does the general public dig in quick and find exploits fast.
PVP is an extremely sensitive topic. Really this can absolutely make or break the entire Final Fantasy XIV experience for most players. Steadily introducing the system one element at a time in a bare-bones Beta Stage that progresses week by week until Patch 2.1 may be a great way to start tackling some of the bigger issues. Not to mention, would finally give players pining for something to do at endgame -- something to do at endgame.
Every MMORPG PVP Game I've ever played has come through some huge problems at the start, most of them bigger than the developers every anticipated. Yohsi-P has proven he's not good at predicting how players have an effect on his game world, and I'm sure he's also going to underestimate them yet again for PVP. Best handle with care on this one. But will they? Unlikely.
PVP: What Can Go Wrong? Everything...
Sure SquareEnix can make some pretty good games, but you know there is one thing I'm not exactly confident about. Generally when I think SquareEnix, I don't exactly think PVP. Do a Google Search of PVP and SquareEnix for anything PVP related before 2011 -- yeah you're not going find much! What Fantasy Earth Zero? Good game mind you, but SquareEnix didn't develop it.
So would Final Fantasy XIV be SquareEnix's first real world-wide showcase into the world of Player vs Player activity on such a huge scale? Pretty much. I could be missing something, please correct me if I'm totally wrong about this. Oh and I don't count Final Fantasy XI's Ballista System -- that was a failure in every way.
Can we trust Yoshi-P to deliver a real Final Fantasy PVP Experience? Yes and No. The rather rough launch of Final Fantasy; the constant speed farming; the ignoring of trash mobs; and the swift clear of Bahamut's Coil shows that Yoshi-P doesn't fully understand the player-base for his own game. Whats to say he's going to get PVP right the first week out?
Yes I'm sure Yoshi-P does understand how PVP works and will try to make it work for everyone. But don't expect it to be working upon patch 2.1's release -- especially with no extensive player testing before hand. I know I'm extremely doubtful and expecting yet another virtual train-wreck that will slowly be patched week after week until some stability is found.
I'm not one to accept that inevitable outcome. Hopefully a thread like this can make some change. But whose to say it will? All someone like me can do is just try and hope for the best. Let's face it -- I can't really do anything else, now can I?
You Know They Won't Get It Right The First Time
Sure I'm bold to make this prediction, but this is years and years of playing MMORPG PVP games -- I've never seen the first incarnation be a slam dunk right out of the gate. I'm expecting the generally FFXIV PVPer will be voicing their concerns about it Day-1 and demanding changes while grinding their teeth and dealing with the system for weeks on end.
I'm tired of it. Really I am. Tried I have to look forward to what I've suffered through in every other PVP game since the dawn of time. I'd love SquareEnix to take some care with this and really build it up little by little until it works. I know they aren't going to get it right, no one does. No one. Not even Guild Wars 2 got it right Day-1 and they are the supposed masters of this subject matter. It's even in their name: ArenaNet.
So knowing they won't get it right, do you think they should take some measures to prevent the inevitable problems? I certainly do. One good way would be to release it in small, small doses. This would give players the ability to provide feedback on each of the features as they come and open a dialogue with the developers on whether or not it'll work in the long-term. Just having a basic system dropped on us in patch 2.1 is sure going to cause some issues. Brace yourselves folks! That is going to be a rough start.
What Do You Think/Feel About Final Fantasy XIV's Upcoming PVP Promises?
In these forums I do my best to try and promote conversation. Of course you normally just get one big post by the OP and a whole bunch of small little statements from everyone else that can fit on a Twitter Post. That's fine and dandy, but know that providing minor statements isn't really going to inspire any action from anyone. If developers do take time to read this thread, they are not going to be very impressed by people bickering back and forth. Really think about it and propose why an Early Beta may or may not be a good idea.
Let's hear your thoughts.
Bigger, Longer, Sooner PVP Beta: Why not?
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10-12-2013, 02:19 AMMecanBigger, Longer, Sooner PVP Beta: Why not?
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10-12-2013, 02:24 AMRaiz_Cineris
TL;DR
Because random speculation is always productive. SMH -
10-12-2013, 02:25 AMDivinemight
You are probably not going to buying my words, but FF11 ballista was much more fun and competitive than filthy WoW battleground/arena.....
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10-12-2013, 02:26 AMMecanAlready addressed that myself in my own thread. So I suppose you mean: So having nothing to say at all but proving you didn't actually take time to read -- is always productive? Because you know as well as I do, no. No that's not productive at all. Or wait, are you the spokesman for the current Internet Culture which would likely listen to me if I made a video? That's it isn't it!?Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiz_Cineris
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10-15-2013, 03:30 PMMecan
Well, this thread didn't go very far now did it?
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10-15-2013, 03:32 PMCyrilLucifer
You...are aware that they released PvP during the beta test, right?
That's why it was delayed. -
10-15-2013, 03:35 PMShioban
The PvP area stress testing and 'simple' first-phase testing for PvP was loltastic.
It was stable, but the abilities are so focused on PvE content that it was awfully broken.
Me and a friend went BLM/WHM combo, and we DESTROYED every single party bar one or two, the entire of Phase 4.
Only two matches we lost, simply because of (Sleep) being the most over-powered ability avaliable, as it rendered people completley useless for 30 seconds which is killer in an PvP environment.
But I can't speculate what they've changed, we'll find out soon. -
10-15-2013, 03:37 PMMecan2 Days is not a Beta... that was a sample at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
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10-15-2013, 03:52 PMHaruka-Akemi
Ballista was fun i dont knwo why it failed for you
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10-15-2013, 03:58 PMAndrien
I like FFXI ballista. There just wasn't any real incentive to keep playing it. A leaderboard wasn't enough.
I'm going to trust Yoshi-P. He did say he is a hardcore mmo player and pvp'er -
10-15-2013, 03:59 PMPellegriAnd yet going by their video it has not changed at all since then. If they wanted to show off changes made to it then they should have done so, hell instead of af gear show all the players in their pvp gear that was even shown in slides at tgs(or you know show off some of the abilities they had planned for pvp only). So far they aren't hyping it up much when anyone who was really interested in it would have looked at beta feedback for it, which unless that video is 2 months old they haven't done a whole heck of a lot to warrant the holding it off till 2.1 along with everything else and the kitchen sink.Quote:
Originally Posted by CyrilLucifer
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10-15-2013, 04:06 PMAndrien
IIRC, the purpose of the PvP beta test in phase 4 was to collect data on how far or close you have to be to hit someone. We didn't get to use PvP specific abilities, or equipment.
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10-15-2013, 04:23 PMPellegriThat was the purpose of the beta test.....it's been 2 months since then and they show off nothing more than normal af geared players doing normal combat against other players. They have planned pvp only armor sets for this thing, they have planned pvp only abilities, why after 2 months can they not show atleast a tiny glimpse at just what any of that will be like? If this patch was still months away that would be one thing, but it's not. If they care about this game even in the slightest and want it to retain any mentionable amount of subs we will see this patch within the next month, there's not a whole heck of a lot more time to do much more than polish it off at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrien
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10-15-2013, 04:25 PMDuelleCC + burst has always been king in PvP, and the funny part is that BLM is the closest thing to having both. I'm half-expecting, half-dreading Scout/Rogue => THF for a similar reason (specially if they take the FFXI aspect of THF relying on crits and combined it with a WoW Rogue's arsenal of stuns and incapacitates).Quote:
Originally Posted by Shioban
I'm personally not too worried unless certain jobs become free kills and they start messing with PvE balance/design for the sake of PvP.