I'm not even kidding and it's not the elitism ruining it, people really need to get over it, some people play for fun and others play for items and don't much like to communicate outside of their friend circle.
I've seen various threads about refusing to heal someone because of terrible reasons and others about people not speaking English both have received 100's of upvotes. Both of these are worse than elitism. I was in a dungeon with 2 French people, they were happily speaking in French, I Auto-Translated "Are you French?" As I know very basic French, I received yes; a few seconds later they said sorry and that they wont speak it anymore and they will speak English, even know they know very little. I wasn't having that. I promptly told them to continue speaking in French and I'll just follow and please mark.
Here's a fun fact: English is the hardest language to learn. Due to multiple words meaning various things.
English isn't the only language in the world, I suggest you guys make use of the Auto-translate feature (I know it's bad) or just accept that not everyone in the world speaks English. I'm clear on this matter right? Good.
The next point is about healers and them refusing to heal someone. Everyone in a dungeon needs each other, just because you keep the tank alive means nothing. "If the DPS gets aggro from the tank I'm not healing them and they can just die as it's not my problem" is pathetic and I cannot stand it. You cannot finish the dungeon without them, as a healer myself I love the near-instant queues, but I also have a 50 BLM and sitting in the dungeon queue for 45 minutes just to get a 13 year old healer to claim authority in the dungeon isn't a nice feeling.
You probably notice now that the two points I listed are in the first sentence; these two are the main points I wanted to make.
Alas the next issue is about botting, RWTing/RMTing.
I don't false report bots, I spend 20+ minutes writing up detail, I don't want a reply back I want action. I understand that you cannot deal with instantly, I've worked in CS I know what goes on. The fact is the bot I reported 3 weeks ago now has 5 level 50's in combat classes and every DoL/DoH 50 also. I know this guy is a bot because I've caught him stuck in the same place for hours just running at the wall then a FATE will spawn near him and he'll automatically fix himself and it'll happen again sooner or later. I want results.. Now.
This is my game as much as yours. After all I'm (and the rest of players) are the reason the game is still going, you need to realize this actually communicate with us, is it that hard to say hello and fill us in on things? In fact I can put all the con's behind me and look at the pro's.. But I need your guidance and some confidence in myself that you're listening, not a robot not an automated response.
Now for the forums, this is the worst forums I have ever been on. Limited to 20 posts a day, limited to 1,000 worded posts before I have to find an alternative way to post a thread -- I can understand being a certain level to post in other sections besides Player Help but Jesus; you cut all corners in fact forget corners you just cut it in half to save money and the issue of hiring Moderators for the forums, people will be willing to help you out Square-Enix, quit denying us and learn to accept us.
Nearing the end, new players are treated very, very badly.
You know when I first played Guild Wars 2 I had a max level person come up to me and help me. He taught me crafting, combat and the best spots to level. He also showed me WvWvW and lent me some money, not a lot so I got carried but enough to get my first set of gear. I spent around a year and a half on that game, maxed every character and got my very first Legendary. Became my servers prominent PvPer and became feared and respected at the same time. People became really close friends, and I vowed after that to sit around with a group of friends and help new players, I earned so much respect and not once did I ever want anything for it. Some one gave to me and I gave back, that's how MMORPG's should be.
I joined this game and was lost, I didn't know what to do and I no one talked to me. I got to level 27 before someone sent me a friend request and asked me to join his FC. I probably strayed of from the point but you get the picture on this subject. You guys are doing it wrong, make it right. Square this one is on you, I cannot heal low level players if I do they lose the exp for the mob that they were targeting.
lastly before I post this and head to sleep.
You need active GM's patrolling the worlds, get them to do a few FATEs with players, people will understand that they're at work etc. Again this could be done by volunteers.
I know I'll get laughed at for this, but RuneScape has Player Moderators that have the ability to mute people. Having active Mods in your game to help mute the gold sellers is a massive blow to them and guess what they're free, all you need is a place for them to all hang out in with guidelines and you need to spend time with them.
This is basic MMORPG stuff that should have been added. You know I'd come work for you square happily, but I know for a fact I wouldn't be heard if I did and I'm not moving out of Australia. I hope someone from your office reads this and I hope the players read and learn something. -- This is your game, make it a friendly one.
This community is shaping up to be the worst around..
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10-11-2013, 04:44 PMAnimationThis community is shaping up to be the worst around..
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10-11-2013, 05:06 PMVagrant-0
A few points.
1. While English is a difficult language, every person in most of the EU (and most of the developed world) has to learn a fair amount of it before graduating highschool. While I agree with the sentiment that people should be able to speak their native language I believe you misunderstood this person's intentions and sentiments completely. This person was likely wanting to use English because it was the language You understood and therefore they would be able to better communicate for your benefit. If the party was matched through the duty finder, it was entirely their decision to select English or whatever language when they queued for the sake of making that queue quicker. The game will not pair together people unless those language options are selected. For example, if I queue for CM or AK with Japanese selected, I would only be grouped with Japanese players, or other English players who selected Japanese as a language. I would not be matched with English players who did not select Japanese. And in selecting this, I would accept that it would be required of me to have some ability to communicate in Japanese in exchange for the convenience of queuing with persons from a different timezone. Responsibility rests solely on the individual making these choices and should not be brushed off on other members of the group, regardless of language used.
2. Regarding healing of DPS. DPS should be aware of how their own attacks draw agro and understand how and when they should use their abilities... Just like healers should understand that spamming medica at the beginning of a fight will also pull agro. This is a matter of learning your class, and the only real excuse is if the tank is flat-out making no attempt at holding agro. If someone in your party is going all out from the begining, pulling agro from the tank, then finding death soon after, then they need to take a few moments, pull their head out of their arse and consider the situation instead of continuing with the same behavior over and over. If people do not care to learn their class or how a party works, it is not your responsibility to drag them through instances.
This aside, there is no instant fix for a tank losing agro other than the target which stole agro dying. By not healing the target which took agro (and which is still likely attacking) it becomes impossible for the tank to regain it meanwhile the healer will soon draw agro themselves from the subsequent healing spam. The end result is a dead party. This is why it is important that people learn how their class works so that everyone can do their job.
Everything else though, I'm in general agreement. -
10-11-2013, 05:14 PMFoxiLady
Animation you make good points in that huge wall of text :D
I did write a large response but got **The text that you have entered is too long (1478 characters). Please shorten it to 1000 characters long.** These forums are obviously not meant for the players to use so I wont waste my time visiting them again. -
10-11-2013, 05:26 PMSoylentNews flash. Most languages have such words. English really isn't hard at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Animation
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10-11-2013, 05:29 PMLordSideKicks
Op try Tamil. English is really easy.
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10-11-2013, 05:33 PMJyoeru
I agree with in-game volunteer moderator/helpers. I nominate myself as such.
I agree with the healer mentality (though I can only explain and try so hard before I get exhausted messing with it)
Totally agree with the forum limits. Ridiculous.
I pay money to play this game and get treated like I owe the money. I don't. I enjoy the game, but if my experience continues as such, I will just as easily go play another one. -
10-11-2013, 05:34 PMJyoeruI think what he meant is that English has the most finicky and diverse way of communicating. As a person who has taken Japanese, Spanish, and French, I am inclined to agree. It is the most difficult language to master.Quote:
Originally Posted by Soylent
EDIT: So difficult, in fact, that most native speakers can barely speak it correctly/well. -
10-11-2013, 05:52 PMLordSideKicksNative? U mean British? They can speak it really well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyoeru
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10-11-2013, 06:04 PMShiraiAnd how many languages do you speak? How many of those have a non-Germanic background? And how many of those do you speak fluently?Quote:
Originally Posted by Soylent
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10-11-2013, 06:04 PMmikoto_qc
lets never forget that we are part of this community.
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10-11-2013, 06:04 PMJyoeruNative as per any native speaker, which is regional anymore. British English =/= American English =/= Australian English and so on. And no, as a whole, native speakers of English do not speak/write the language to the high degree of arrogant exactness grammar requires. Much of the language has decayed in favor of slang and shortcuts and leetspeak.Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSideKicks
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10-11-2013, 06:07 PMRemilia_Nightfall
Sorry, I have to agree that English is not that hard.
I am Italian, and I've learned English by playing videogames.
We are constantly bombarded by English words in our daily life - all it's required is a bit of willpower and curiosity, and you should reach AT LEAST a basic level of English that will allow you to understand the majority of what's usually said while playing an MMO.
As a matter of fact, English IS the "Language of the world" currently and it should be considered the "default" language when communicating with people from foreign countries. (Yes, I know that Spanish is more widespread, but still...) -
10-11-2013, 06:15 PMTharia
Honstly english is worlds easier than german in many case and as someone pointed out the offical world language after all, so it is more likely that a person uses as a second language english than france or german for example. THe last two lanuage are quite mean and grammar crazy. For example france is as once one of my teachers said a language that is totally different written than it is spoken. :)
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10-11-2013, 06:29 PMJyoeruIn no way am I criticizing you. I applaud your English abilities! I fully understood what you said, so for the point about generally communicating, yes, English (as any language) is easy. Mastery, nope. Sadly, English is a horrible language. More so than German because how you read/write it vs. say it can vary. Plus, if I wish to be elitist, I can render sentences in English you'd have to have a Masters degree to understand. It is a horrible, cruel language, but therein lies its beauty. And unlike French, English absorbs all the other languages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharia
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10-11-2013, 07:05 PMRemilia_Nightfall
Easy to learn, hard to master I guess. You don't need to master it to speak correctly with people from other countries, tho.
Other languages, like Italian, German or French, are harder to learn on a basic level so English is clearly the best option, and I believe everyone playing ANY MMO should at least make an effort to learn it a bit. -
10-11-2013, 07:08 PMHysteriorBe positive! Be! Be! Positive!
It's really not, it's just easier to see the bad things that the good things
Switch your brain to positive mode and you will see the community is really not that bad :)
lot's of great people around -
10-11-2013, 07:16 PMVaen
There are certainly plenty of rude and misguided people in the FFXIV community right now. But there are also a lot of great people around, too :) Hopefully you come across some regularly.
The devs should really keep in mind that they have the power to guide the community in subtle ways through the game mechanics. Like with the issue OP mentioned, where lowbies can't get exp if you're too high level and you heal them. This is a game mechanic that doesn't encourage a helpful, trusting community.
There are plenty of ways they could change this. For example, your healing power could scale down to match their level, so it isn't too overpowered when you heal them. And then they can still get exp from their kills without it being too cheap to have assistance from a highbie. -
10-11-2013, 07:19 PMItachiQuote:
Originally Posted by Jyoeru
this can be true for any regional differences in the language (dialect). You may not even understand 1/30 of the words of typical Viennese, even if you speak german very well.
also possible with basically any language. How many languages do you speak at the C level btw?Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyoeru
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10-11-2013, 07:27 PMXenorActually there are a lot of bad tanks in this game and it is fairly easy for a well geared DPS to draw aggro from most of them just by using their standard rotation without buffs like Raging Strikes. Trash mobs don't hit hard, I have cleared half of AK with a 3 man party missing a tank, so there is never an excuse for not healing a DPS who draws hate. Never. The DPS should be trying to make the tank and healer's life easier however by popping defensive buffs like Manaward when they draw aggro or DPSing the second mob if they know they are about to draw hate on the main target.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant-0
At the end of the day if anyone dies to a trash mob then I question whether that healer is going to be able to heal through boss fights and most of the time they can't. -
10-11-2013, 07:34 PMThariaOk that is true. On the other hand this can be said about nearly any language. At least as far I know from a friend that lives in the Netehrlands he founds english way easier than german. At least if you use the language aside of the common level. So I think it is the best thing to say that all languages can be mean on a deeper level.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jyoeru
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10-11-2013, 07:56 PMVagrant-0Special circumstances call for different reactions. There are plenty of good or decent tanks too. It doesn't change the fact that a DPS that is reasonably geared can strip agro from even the best tanks if they really wanted to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
Paying attention to how much agro you are drawing from your actions is still everyone's responsibility. Unlike most other MMOs, this is clearly shown both on the party display for the active target, and has a general indicator next to every other target. A good DPS will meter their abilities early on so that the tank has enough time to build up threat before using damage buffs or off-GCD attacks. Unlike most other MMOs, the tank (both paladin and warrior) lacks any ability which is an instant re-capture of agro, so must maintain it throughout the fight. There is no taunt spam ability other than the combo attacks made by the tank, and even that is limited by TP pool. The fact that a fully leveled legacy player does not understand this probably explains your low opinion of tanks. If the tank is geared lower than the DPS, the DPS should recognize this and either accept that they are responsible for staying alive through whatever mobs they pull, or should adjust their rotation accordingly. Of course a fully geared DPS will always strip agro from a newly AF 50 tank, even with standard rotations... Use your brain and adjust as needed so the run goes over smoothly instead of trying to pull out your E-peen, seeing how high you can crit or how quickly you can kill while tanking mobs; your run may be a little longer, but you'll look less like a douche.
Most of the "not going to heal you" stuff I've seen has only occurred in lower level instances, and usually in relation to DPS who intentionally pull mobs before the tank, or who consistently attack other targets than the tank is targeting. With the exception of the occasional Fate-bred DPS, I have not seen this become an issue post 40. Those people, the ones I am specifically talking about here, are the ones that really do need to learn how the game works and how their class contributes to the standard party. Keeping them alive while the tank exhausts everything trying to get back agro, then berating the tank for not being overgeared, or losing agro because someone decided to activate raging strikes and go through a full burn rotation at the beginning of the fight is not helping the matter. -
10-11-2013, 08:04 PMShiraiI can attest to this, but one major reason for this is, if your friend is around the same age as I am (I'm in my early 30's), that a lot of cartoons and tv shows that we watched when we were young were broadcasted in English with subtitles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tharia
We were basically taught English before we learned in School, aside from that a lot of primary schools here start giving English lessons once you hit the second before last year (Age 8~11) while German lessons start when you hit middle school (Age 12~14).
Another reason why we find German a harder language is because of the grammar, English is a LOT less complicated than German when it comes to grammar.
That said though, neither language is as complicated as Dutch. -
10-11-2013, 08:18 PMmmcsky
English a hard language? Hah! Try chinese for a change, a word having different meanings? Try a meaning having different words in Spanish, difficult to pronounce? Have you tried to read French without messing up your Rs and Ls?
I won't even mentioned the convoluted mess that some german words are, and how difficult it is to write the other languages that don't use roman letters.
Weird point aside, yes you are right english is not the most spoken language in the world by a large margin. -
10-11-2013, 08:19 PMShadowHunterrXMany people dont even see the differents between Dutch and German. It will be hard to explain to some people here :D. Nederlanders zijn gewoon de beste !Quote:
Originally Posted by Shirai
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10-11-2013, 08:30 PMKenjinmaruI can only thank you for making me laugh so hard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Animation
English is the hardest language to learn: haha i spit my tea as i puffed in laughter. English is probably the EASIEST modern language of the Proto-Indo European group. I have studied some lingustics and speak 3 languages fluently at business level, and English was faceroll. Even if i didnt know anything about semiotics, i'd tell you a language whith these grammar mechanics, only 1 to 2 verb forms in conjugating, adjectives subject to little to no changes etc... is piss easy compared to even its closest sister: German. -
10-11-2013, 08:30 PMKenjinmaru
Healers not healing DPS that pull from the tank: if the tank isnt standing there doing just auto attack, thats EXACTLY what the healers should do. If the tank has its enmity modifier on and is busy at each GCD, it is the DPS' responsibility to manage their aggro accurately, completely. Let them die each and every time so they bloody well learn the lesson. I bet these very healers are topping everyone just fine when the damage is unavoidable AoE.
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10-11-2013, 08:31 PMKenjinmaru
GMs holding your hand: i dont even see the point of it. So that you know that if you get mocked for being bad they'll save you from the bullies? So that you can feel cool buddying with one of SE and share it on Facebook?
They are monitoring what is going on where it matters, they really are, and they seem to be listening to basic BUG reporting and suggestions, which is enough at this stage. I'd rather them using all that carebearing time you are asking to answer some of the hottest topics on the Forums and share insight on the game's direction.
Stop being a whiny little child, find a FC to enjoy playing the game with and all of these QQ tears will dry. -
10-11-2013, 08:34 PMXenorAgain, trash mobs do not hit hard. If I can 3 man the majority of the hardest dungeon in the game without a tank in the party that says it all. If you're that bad of a healer that you're only willing to spam 1 on your currently selected target then that's your own issue. When I am rotating Fire II to kill trash quickly I expect to get hate on one of the mobs if the tank hasn't distributed his enmity well enough and it is never a problem. Tank claws back the mob as I switch to MP regen, healer tops me up and I go back to DPSing. I am not going to artificially give myself a 5 second GCD just because you suck, I just won't party with you. I don't improve my gear just so I can cancel out all benefit it gives by holding back my attacks a second or two longer. I may as well just join the party in full AF if you're that bad and DPS as normal. The DPS parsing would be the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vagrant-0
The point is, if you are a smart DPS and know your limits then taking a whack or two in the face isn't an issue. DPS are even meant to tank trash in some instances, IE the demons that spawn in the last boss fight of AK. If a DPS can't handle a mob hitting them then you aren't clearing it. -
10-11-2013, 08:37 PMRazsca
English is probably one of the easiest language to learn, I speak 4 languages, and I can tell you French and Japanese are more complicated then English.
There's a reason why it's one of the most spoken language worldwide, and it's not because it's hard.
They probably stopped talking in French:
a) to have a better group communication
b) to avoid unnecessary flame war, since some of English only people get frustrated to see someone speak in other language because they don't understand it. -
10-11-2013, 08:43 PMFreakiie
People speaking English or not isn't so much of an issue to me. It's more that people seem to consider it standard procedure to just select every language in the DF because it gives them faster queues, screw communication, I'll just use google translate to tell em I don't understand a word they're saying and lets roll! Well, that's if they're "nice", most will just queue up for all languages and then never say a word.
If you queue up for multiple languages imo you should at least have the common courtesy to speak the language you're queuing up for. Then again actually communicating in a dungeon seems to be concept that's lost on most people in this community, which kinda explains such behaviour. Why bother queuing up with people I can understand, nobody ever talks anyway. Too bad if we get a new player and nobody can tell him what to do, we'll just finish the dungeon without him. -
10-11-2013, 09:26 PMVagrant-0For trash mobs, yes, in almost all cases these should never be an issue post 40, even without a tank since a party with properly geared DPS will kill most singular trash mobs without dying faster than they can be healed (about the only issue is multiple mobs in some dungeons like stone vigil). I don't think anyone was ever saying to NEVER heal people other than the tank. But there is a distinct difference between the two situations:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
Given a standard opening: Tank marks mobs and pulls a group of 3 opening up with 1 shieldthrow/tomahawk against target 1, then following up 2-3 flash/overpower as the pack gets to them (and ensuring that every mob in the party has been tagged by atleast 2 enmity skills) before starting combo on target 1.
Situation 1: DPS waits until the flash/overpower before attacking target 1 (optional sleep on target 2 or 3). As target 1 gets below 5% tank flashes/overpowers again before switching to target 2. DPS finishes with 1 and attacks target 2 which the tank has already had time to build up more than sufficient enmity on. 2 falls similar to 1, and tank continues through rotation. In this situation, it is nearly impossible for the tank to lose agro against any of the targets unless the DPS is heavily geared for that dungeon.
If agro is lost (no fault), target 1 will usually die fast enough since everyone is focused on the same target that us usually at low health. In being only 1 out of the three hitting the DPS, it should not be any issue to simply keep everyone topped up. In this situation, the best thing the tank can do is maintain damage on 1 while keeping enough enmity built up on 2 and 3 so that the healer does not pull agro from healing. Unless there are more than 4 targets in the pack, mp should not be an issue for the healer no matter how much healing is being done since the tank should still maintain enough agro on secondary targets and be able to recover quickly as soon as target 1 is dead. Healer should focus on either keeping all party members alive and trying to separate enemies with knockback/sleep.
Situation 2: DPS attacks immediately after shield/tomahawk using as many skills as possible (or attacks first), uses AoE on all targets, then runs around like an idiot when they draw agro while they keep attacking with everything they have (using AoE attacks as well as single target attacks). Unlike the previous situation, the DPS usually has full agro from multiple targets, and even the primary target has nearly full health. As the DPS runs around chaotically other characters have a harder time hitting with their skills, often getting interrupted because the DPS has moved too far away to be healed, or has run behind the back of the healer.
In this situation, it is nearly impossible to recover without either letting the DPS simply die, or extensive use of CC. A healer spamming heal on the DPS can still probably keep that DPS alive through smaller fights (especially if they're well geared or lancer and the target remains still), but usually ends up pulling the other two targets onto them unless the tank has been using flash/overpower repeatedly, or CC was used without being interrupted by AoE spam.
It is in situation 2 where you should just let the DPS die and yell at them for not knowing what they're doing. It is situation 2 that leads to party wipes against bosses when the rest of the party is not as well geared. It is situation 2 where even the best tanks and healers tend to get annoyed because it is entirely preventable.
We are not talking about routine grind runs here... We are not talking about boss rooms where the additional mobs that spawn are usually a weaker variety that is specifically designed to be handled by anyone. We are talking about standard trash pulls in story dungeons where not every member may know the dungeon perfectly or be properly geared. This is where most of the bad DPS tends to occur and elitism of "I just won't run the instance with you" is not as much of an immediate option. Try making a new conjurer with level 10-16 equipment and run one of the first 3 instances sometime... You will see this sort of thing happen again and again (in addition to tanks that don't use skills (but that is a different matter though similar))... and not have the luxary of wearing equipment 10-20 levels above the dungeon. Unfortunately, this sort of behavior tends to continue well into dungeons 30+ until the healer and tank decide it's just easier to quit and requeue. -
10-11-2013, 09:39 PMRetrograde
I want to heartily agree. Never have I gone to the forums so much, written so little, and then deleted my response because it was just too snarky.
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10-12-2013, 12:55 AMItachithere are tons more bad dps and tons of mediocre dps who act all smug while playing the easiest role in the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xenor
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10-12-2013, 06:37 AMAnimation
I was hoping would focus on the issue at hand and not turn this into a debate about English relating other languages, none the less I have read every reply thoroughly and I've found two that I want to reply to. Others will come as I have time.
I speak Chinese and I speak German. I'm not saying you're wrong, but English from another language standpoint is the hardest to fully learn. I dislike that you're making assumptions that I'm yet to learn any other language.Quote:
Originally Posted by mmcsky
I don't want to come of as pittyful but you say it's the easiest yet you cannot even use the basics? Your post is full of spelling mistakes and incorrect grammar. Mine isn't perfect and to be frank, a lot of people cannot even speak it correctly, with 'text' speak and slang taking over. If you're born into a English speaking town / city then it's going to be easy for you to learn. Even once you learn English it takes ages to master, heck some people have been speaking it for 20 odd years and still get it wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenjinmaru
Quit focusing on the language part and look at the rest of the post, I'd appreciate that!
As for the other posts I thank you for bringing things up! -
10-12-2013, 06:40 AMjdnycSo much this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Retrograde