More specific BLM rotation questions

It's been a few weeks since I last read BLM theorycrafting discussions. I finally got a BLM to 50 and have been running into some situations I'm not sure how to handle.

1.) Is Thunder II still the go-to thunder for non-thundercloud procs?

2.) One thread suggests that you hold thundercloud procs until Umbral stage given that the buff will last long enough for this to be possible. What do you guys do? Even if that's sound advice, lets pretend the situation arises where you WONT be able to hold the proc until Umbral. This means you go ahead and use it and when you do get to umbral, likely some time on your Thunder will remain. If it's a few seconds, I suppose it's best to refresh, but what if like 10 or so seconds is left on it? What do I cast in that situation? Blizzard I? Refresh it anyways? What?

3.) This question has to deal with the delay in firestarter procs.
a.) Is it better to wait a slight second to see if firestarter procs or to simply chain cast and potentially lose firestarter procs? I hope in the future all procs are more responsive.
b.) If no, what about the last Fire cast before you Blizzard III. Is it better to at least wait on this one to see if Firestarter procs so that I can expend it before going into Umbral? I find that having a Firestarter proc while in Umbral causes me to have to delay anyways. If I go Blizzard III > Thunder II > Firestarter Fire III chain cast with no delay, I end up not regenning my full MP bar because the second tic of Umbral III regen tends to happen during the cast time of Fire III, but without a cast time it doesn't have time to tic, thus causing me to have to delay regardless, unless maybe I cast Thunder III in this situation instead.

4.) Whats the best use for Convert? Should I use it to extend my Astral phase or for Flare?

5.) If Flare is even worth using, what's the best Flare rotation? Fire until I cannot cast anymore and have MP for Flare > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > Fire (x1 for me) > Blizzard III?

6.) Outside of Flare, what's the best use(s) for Swiftcast? I like to use it to redo Astral III if I ever happen to drop out of form due to boss mechanics, but I'm curious if there's any better applications.

Thanks for any answers!

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Originally Posted by rzr22

It's been a few weeks since I last read BLM theorycrafting discussions. I finally got a BLM to 50 and have been running into some situations I'm not sure how to handle.

1.) Is Thunder II still the go-to thunder for non-thundercloud procs?

Yes for any fight except Turn 2 and 4, I recommend using Thunder 3 to buy your tanks time b4 you go ape shit on the disposal node,ADS or the soldiers in turn 4.


Note that for any fight that haz aggro issues aside from the one I mentioned Thunder 3 with it long cast buy much needed time for your tanks.

2.) One thread suggests that you hold thundercloud procs until Umbral stage given that the buff will last long enough for this to be possible. What do you guys do? Even if that's sound advice, lets pretend the situation arises where you WONT be able to hold the proc until Umbral. This means you go ahead and use it and when you do get to umbral, likely some time on your Thunder will remain. If it's a few seconds, I suppose it's best to refresh, but what if like 10 or so seconds is left on it? What do I cast in that situation? Blizzard I? Refresh it anyways? What?

Yes Thunder Cloud ASAP, I have had situations in the past where I would get Thunder Cloud 3-4 times in a row, it is all about luck. Just make sure if there is more than one target, you give them the thunder cloud if the main Thunder is still fresh on the main target.


3.) This question has to deal with the delay in firestarter procs.
a.) Is it better to wait a slight second to see if firestarter procs or to simply chain cast and potentially lose firestarter procs? I hope in the future all procs are more responsive.
b.) If no, what about the last Fire cast before you Blizzard III. Is it better to at least wait on this one to see if Firestarter procs so that I can expend it before going into Umbral? I find that having a Firestarter proc while in Umbral causes me to have to delay anyways. If I go Blizzard III > Thunder II > Firestarter Fire III chain cast with no delay, I end up not regenning my full MP bar because the second tic of Umbral III regen tends to happen during the cast time of Fire III, but without a cast time it doesn't have time to tic, thus causing me to have to delay regardless, unless maybe I cast Thunder III in this situation instead.

Use thunder 3 when that happens, guaranteed 2 mana ticks.

4.) Whats the best use for Convert? Should I use it to extend my Astral phase or for Flare?

Double Flare Combo or when a bard screw up your mana rotation with his/her mana song.

5.) If Flare is even worth using, what's the best Flare rotation? Fire until I cannot cast anymore and have MP for Flare > Swiftcast > Flare > Convert > Fire (x1 for me) > Blizzard III?

Flare is the hardest hitting AOE & single target spell/skill in the game, Double flare is more dmg than LB 1 if one of them crit under raging strike effect & astral III of course. You tell me is it good or not?

Bliz 3 > Fire 3 > Fire 2 spam until 250-300 mana > Raging Strike > Flare > Convert > Swiftcast > Flare > Trans

This is an example, you may replace fire 2 with 1 for single target dmg.

6.) Outside of Flare, what's the best use(s) for Swiftcast? I like to use it to redo Astral III if I ever happen to drop out of form due to boss mechanics, but I'm curious if there's any better applications.

Swift Cast can be used with LB as far some claimed (never tried it myself), also for quick Thunder 3.

Thanks for any answers!

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Hope I answered all correctly as I'm busy eating ^^.

1) Situational but usually yes

2) Use thundercloud procs as soon as you get them, or you might miss other thundercloud procs that would overwrite your current one. I once got like 6 thunderclouds in a row, separated by about 2 seconds each, you don't want to miss that.

3) Is it better to wait a slight second to see if firestarter procs or to simply chain cast and potentially lose firestarter procs? Sadly, yes it is. Don't interrupt your casts just to use a firestarter proc.

4) Flare with all your cooldowns and pots

5) Flare, swift, convert, Flare, Vial of Ether, Blizzard 3 and keep going.

6) Swiftcast+Sleep if you're being swarmed, also useful to interrupt Void Call in AK.

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Originally Posted by NeoAmon

Hope I answered all correctly as I'm busy eating ^^.

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Transpose is crap, it devastates your DPS, avoid using it at all costs. Use Ether if you're stuck with no mana to continue your rotation.

Thanks for the replies.

A follow up to #2 as one question got glossed over in my wall of text.

If Thunder is still on the target when I'm in umbral and has a decent amount of time left on it (say, 10+ seconds), should I refresh it in anyways or cast something else? If I should cast something else, should it be Blizzard I?

Just to clarify something,
Swiftcast can't make you insta LB. I tried yesterday after reading this here ^^ I don't work :)
I personnaly use SC to Thunder 3, or when I screw up my rotation, to get Blizz III as fast as possible.

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Originally Posted by Dorin

1) Situational but usually yes

2) Use thundercloud procs as soon as you get them, or you might miss other thundercloud procs that would overwrite your current one. I once got like 6 thunderclouds in a row, separated by about 2 seconds each, you don't want to miss that.

3) Is it better to wait a slight second to see if firestarter procs or to simply chain cast and potentially lose firestarter procs? Sadly, yes it is. Don't interrupt your casts just to use a firestarter proc.

4) Flare with all your cooldowns and pots

5) Flare, swift, convert, Flare, Vial of Ether, Blizzard 3 and keep going.

6) Swiftcast+Sleep if you're being swarmed, also useful to interrupt Void Call in AK.




Transpose is crap, it devastates your DPS, avoid using it at all costs. Use Ether if you're stuck with no mana to continue your rotation.

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Got this idea from reddit. The only time I find transpose to be usefull is when you have a firestarter proc going into UI. Go ahead and finish blizzard 3 > Thunder 2> Mana full> Transpose and firestarter fire3. This puts you into AF1 and causes the fire 3 to do more damage at 0 extra mana cost.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

Got this idea from reddit. The only time I find transpose to be usefull is when you have a firestarter proc going into UI. Go ahead and finish blizzard 3 > Thunder 2> Mana full> Transpose and firestarter fire3. This puts you into AF1 and causes the fire 3 to do more damage at 0 extra mana cost.

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Yeah that's a creative idea.

More input on a few things:

1. I use Thunder III as my initial attack if I can shave some time off it before the tank pulls. Helps if you can hear your tank and he tells you right when he'll attack so you can maximize your DPS. Other than that it's Thunder II, or if I have Swiftcast.

2. For Swiftcast, I usually use it right away after the initial Thunder III, on Fire III. This never pulls aggro unless you severely outgear the tank; it puts you immediately into AH3 and lets you use your non-GCDs during the recast to buff your Fire -> Firestarter phase (your highest DPS phase). After that, since UI3 > Fire III is so quick, I'll use it on Thunder III or on Flare as a finisher.

3. For Convert, I use it during boss fights when I'm in the Fire -> Firestarter phase, preferably while I have Raging Strikes or an INT potion up. Also of course it's amazing for double Flare.

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

Got this idea from reddit. The only time I find transpose to be usefull is when you have a firestarter proc going into UI. Go ahead and finish blizzard 3 > Thunder 2> Mana full> Transpose and firestarter fire3. This puts you into AF1 and causes the fire 3 to do more damage at 0 extra mana cost.

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Why do this instead of just using your proc on the end of your fire cycle though? You lose a quick cast fire 1 and the firestarter proc basically. Not sure if it's worth it.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Why do this instead of just using your proc on the end of your fire cycle though? You lose a quick cast fire 1 and the firestarter proc basically. Not sure if it's worth it.

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I get your argument for the quick cast fire 1, but the point of not using it on the end of your fire cycle is because it requires a slight pause to see if you even got a proc or not rather than chain casting things. I'm not sure how you lose the firestarter proc, though. You probably lose tons of firestarter procs due to how the proc mechanic works (proccing at the last second).

The question I originally posed is whether waiting that second to see if you got a proc is better DPS than simply chain casting and losing procs. I suppose I'll need to go test this myself.

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I use Thunder III as my initial attack if I can shave some time off it before the tank pulls. Helps if you can hear your tank and he tells you right when he'll attack so you can maximize your DPS. Other than that it's Thunder II, or if I have Swiftcast.

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I guess it may be gear dependent/attribute dependent, but casting Thunder III at the start means I do one less fire in my Astral phase. I suppose if you had some piety from something. I stop my astral phase when my MP drops below 1036 (MP required for a Blizzard III + Thunder II). If I start with T3 with no MP regen, I tend to get around 1013 IIRC, which means I can't cast that one extra fire I could if I cast T2.

No one has answered this yet.

If Thunder is still on the target when I'm in umbral and has a decent amount of time left on it (say, 10+ seconds), should I refresh it in anyways or cast something else? If I should cast something else, should it be Blizzard I?

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Originally Posted by rzr22

I get your argument for the quick cast fire 1, but the point of not using it on the end of your fire cycle is because it requires a slight pause to see if you even got a proc or not rather than chain casting things. I'm not sure how you lose the firestarter proc, though.

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I mean the a Fast fire 3 doesn't take much more time then an instant fire 3. You have the global 2.5 sec CD, and the only benefit would be you get an Astral 1 fire 3. I'd rather take the astral 3 fire 3. You can jump to cancel Blizz 3 fast enough in my experience and Blizz 3 casts really fast anyways so you don't lose that much time.

Depending on your latency I guess.

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Originally Posted by rzr22

No one has answered this yet.

If Thunder is still on the target when I'm in umbral and has a decent amount of time left on it (say, 10+ seconds), should I refresh it in anyways or cast something else? If I should cast something else, should it be Blizzard I?

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I would and do cast Blizzard I in that case. Who knows, you might get another thunder proc during your fire cycle.

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Originally Posted by HoroBoro

Why do this instead of just using your proc on the end of your fire cycle though? You lose a quick cast fire 1 and the firestarter proc basically. Not sure if it's worth it.

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You would have to stop casting and pause to see if you got the proc to use it BEFORE blizzard 3. This is most likely a loss. If you use the proc without convert it still activates the GCD and you will not get quick cast fire 1 anyway because the fire 3 will land before the gcd completes. So honestly it is just a way to get a couple hundred damage more out of the proc since you have to use it anyway.

or

If you canceled the blizzard 3 like you mention in the next post. The 1 second you are losing by jump canceling blizzard 3 probably makes canceling not worth it at that point. So why not take the free damage?

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Originally Posted by Zerosix

So why not take the free damage?

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Well... Because I feel like there's more free damage to be had with an astral 3 fire 3 and a quickened fire 1 even though I lose 1 sec of cast time (if even that).

Could be wrong - never tested it.