Burnt out before the real content

I really wanted to revisit this dead horse and let the rotting flesh fester a bit longer. I want to talk about why philosophy tokens are completely awful in their current state.

THEY'RE REQUIRED FOR EVERYTHING.

You know, it's a currency, this should be expected. However, the way it's handled is just really not all that good.

-You need tokens for darklight gear, which is understandable. Darklight was some of the best gear in 1.0 if you ignored melds, and it was pretty rare in 1.0 as well. However, why doesn't darklight gear drop from a dungeon as well? Like, not throughout the dungeon, that'd be silly. But the final chests of, say, WP and AK can drop a piece of darklight. Or two, even. And you can split it among the four who entered the dungeon. Kinda like how gear works already, just with slightly better gear, alleviating the grind to an extent. Keep the current prices let us continue purchasing darklight with tokens, but ease it up a bit, SE. Let us get something rewarding from chests.

-You need tokens for materials for Vanya/Gryphonskin/Darksteel gear. And it's like 9 pieces per item. Holy goddamn, why? This is probably the worst way to handle coke/potash/peacock ore/etc. It sucks. Crafters should be able to get these drops from dungeons, or buy them at a fairly high price in hamlets, similarly to 1.0 as well. It seems silly to have such a high requirement per item, it's painful, even.

-Quenching Oil. Why is this a step in the relic quest? It doesn't really have anything to do with you learning your class. You're just grinding one of two monotonous dungeons over and over again after you defeat Titan, who is somewhat of a challenge still. Why not make this a final item drop from one more mob, or something less tedious and more skill-oriented than "speed run preatorium/Amdapor for 3-5 hours"?

Honestly, I really like this game. A lot. I really enjoy the encounters in Coil and I love the titan fight and everything. But the steps to getting there are dreadful, I'm starting to feel the burn. I can somewhat sympathize with people who are quitting because of farming these dungeons. It's exhausting. Just a few changes to how philosophy tokens are handled now and in the future, and I'd be happy.

I really dont understand the quenching oil....you grind dungeons endlessly just to get enough gear to kill Titan and then guess what!?!? You now get to go right back to grinding out 9 more CMs just to get an item for a weapon in which you've basically already earned from beating the tough fights

What I don't get is the purpose of making materials for Philo stones..yes it's been 5 years lore wise but why did minium we did have turn into cinnebar? I'm no specialist, but I know a lot of minerals don't suddenly turn into something else, especially that quickly.

People praised Yoshi and said he wouldn't make a grindy MMO, but uhm - Even in XI we had multiple ways to get certain materials, some harder than others but we weren't stuck doing just one content for one material, i.e cashmere you can get multiple ways, in XIV terms you'd only be able to get cashmere with mythology stones. What they need to do is bring over some content systems from XI, like Desynthesis.

What we really need is something at endgame that doesn't require high end stuff like Darklight set and Relic gear because that really all there is to endgame now....

1) Grind for Pilosophy for Darklight and few AK

2) Grind for 300 mythology per week

3) Grind more through endgame dungeons to get your relic.

4) Try to find people that can play with you for coil

5) Find people who can play the same time as you so you can play Coil once a week

6) Now run coil and grind it once every week for Allagan gear and to reach higher Turns in Coil.

7) Grind mindless some more to level your other DoW, DoM, Crafting , and gathering classes

8) Now grind some stuff to sell so you can prepare for upcoming endgame stuff.

9) Grind more Philosophy so you can get the other DL gear sets for the other classes.

Seriously they need something like Epilogue story quests that shows how each city state is rebuiding after the events of the current ending or some kind of City state Epilogue storyline quest chain for lvl 50s. Chronicles of the new era story quest only shows what the Beastmen are doing after the current ending.

I know Hildebrand story quests will be returning in 2.1 or in 2.2

http://i50.tinypic.com/24l0gag.png
but seriously we need something outside the box of endgame being high tier gear required stuff that gives us something to do other than grind grind and grind some more.

Maybe add Special Class epilogue story quest chains for lvl 50s showing what has happened to the class guild after you left them at lvl 30 and return to see them again as a lvl 50 having grown through your jouney in the storyline. We all know what our character has been doing but what has happened to the NPCs we bonded, formed friendship, and master and apprentice relationship with in our class storyline after the events of the storyline.

Did they part take in the events of the war between the Alliance vs Garlean.
What happened to certain NPCs we last seen at the end of each class storyline at lvl 30. What have they been doing during the events of our storyline. There are many things SE can provide a epilogue storyline quest for that can be fun to play for people who reach lvl 50.

Anyone would think this game is a time sink or something like that...

They need you play the damn game and stop moaning

coil is the only thing I don't mind at this point, and with a good group you clear it in 2-3 hours and you're done for the week basically... I'm glad CT will fill in some time but it depends on who will actually need ilvl 80 gear by the time they release it.

I actually agree w/ this post. Tomes are required for *everything*, which makes things really boring. I'll log in wanting to do something, but then i realize everything i'd like to do requires tomes. Realistically I can only do AK, WP, or the story dungeons. Over and over and over. Until Coil. There needs to be a mix of drops/tomes. A 100% tome-based system takes all the wonder and excitement out of RPGs. I know exactly what im going to get every time. Oh i want that armor? 10 runs and I can get it.

Do I want to log in and think "i have to do this 10 times"? No! Thats instant /logoff

The game is still really new. There aren't a lot of ways to get gear right now and that is kind of to be expected. I think the biggest issue is there is really only 1 or 2 ways to get Darklight/upgrade AF gear. If people were doing different things other than farming the same 2 places (AK and CM) players wouldn't be getting bored as easily. Every MMO I have played has had a problem of lack of content upon release and so for me I just expect it. Things should be getting better over time with more options to gear yourself.

I personally don't have a problem of Darklight not dropping in dungeons... This gear is equivalent to the Crystal Tower gear (which should be in the game already, thus giving people more content to farm) so it shouldn't be dropping in the entry 50 dungeons. It really is too bad they couldn't have CT out and balanced for release because it forces the players to grind the same thing over and over thus getting bored.

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Originally Posted by Adamm4231

I really dont understand the quenching oil....you grind dungeons endlessly just to get enough gear to kill Titan and then guess what!?!? You now get to go right back to grinding out 9 more CMs just to get an item for a weapon in which you've basically already earned from beating the tough fights

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I second this

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Originally Posted by Onnslaught

I personally don't have a problem of Darklight not dropping in dungeons... This gear is equivalent to the Crystal Tower gear (which should be in the game already, thus giving people more content to farm) so it shouldn't be dropping in the entry 50 dungeons. It really is too bad they couldn't have CT out and balanced for release because it forces the players to grind the same thing over and over thus getting bored.

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Nah CT gear is going to be ilvl 80. Darklight is ilvl70

Let me properly identify your problem.

You have no problem with tomes.

You just don't think running CM, AK, primals, is fun (anymore?).

I'm not saying you're right or wrong to think so, just let's not mistake one for the other.

In a nutshell guys.. new MMO means really long drawn out requirements to make people spend a ridiculous amount of time doing things until more content is added. As content is added the requirements will be made less. Some people says its to let the casuals catch up but really its just because there is new content to make people grind on so the old content can be made realistic. They want to keep you subscribed and the only way to do that is to keep you playing and give you something to do. If you got all you stuff in a week everyone would be complaining that there is no content.

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Originally Posted by Onnslaught

The game is still really new. There aren't a lot of ways to get gear right now and that is kind of to be expected. I think the biggest issue is there is really only 1 or 2 ways to get Darklight/upgrade AF gear. If people were doing different things other than farming the same 2 places (AK and CM) players wouldn't be getting bored as easily. Every MMO I have played has had a problem of lack of content upon release and so for me I just expect it. Things should be getting better over time with more options to gear yourself.

I personally don't have a problem of Darklight not dropping in dungeons... This gear is equivalent to the Crystal Tower gear (which should be in the game already, thus giving people more content to farm) so it shouldn't be dropping in the entry 50 dungeons. It really is too bad they couldn't have CT out and balanced for release because it forces the players to grind the same thing over and over thus getting bored.

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the problem I find in endgame is everything in endgame requires AK and Darklight gear to have the stats needed for endgame. There is no content outside of the "require AK gear and DL gear" contents.

FF14 is currently stuck in the small box that most MMORPG uses for their endgame being grinding for better gear just to access higher content so you can grind for even more better gear again.

Token distribution is awful. I'm already sick and tired of running CM and Preatorium. I wanted to get some Darklight for my PLD but when I thought that it will take me 14 runs to just get a body made me wanna jump out of the window. Thinking it will take me about 50 runs to get full Darklight is extremely discouraging. ARR is still the only MMO I want to play I just hope Dev team reads the feedback and really makes an effort to re balance the endgame. There is no reason why Primal Fights could not give decent amount of Philosphy, nor why Titan could not give 20 Mythology, it would make them a viable farming option and in the end help people get through relics.

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Originally Posted by Celestine

Nah CT gear is going to be ilvl 80. Darklight is ilvl70

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Oh? I thought coils was a higher gear level than anything else in the game, even CT to this point. Either way if CT was in the game there would be more stuff for people to be running.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

the problem I find in endgame is everything in endgame requires AK and Darklight gear to have the stats needed for endgame. There is no content outside of the "require AK gear and DL gear" contents.

FF14 is currently stuck in the small box that most MMORPG uses for their endgame being grinding for better gear just to access higher content so you can grind for even more better gear again.

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This is as opposed to... what, exactly?

Maybe you shouldn't be playing an RPG? RPG gameplay is inherently stat based. If you want something else, then what you're looking for is not an RPG.

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Originally Posted by Onnslaught

Oh? I thought coils was a higher gear level than anything else in the game, even CT to this point. Either way if CT was in the game there would be more stuff for people to be running.

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ya but it still part of the small box of "require AK gear and DL gear" contents.

There needs to be something outsides of this content. Maybe add a New Game+ Storyline quest chain which has New Adventurers playing the storyline again as lvl 50 content version but this time the storyline is the Legacy Version of the storyline rather than New Adventurer storyline.

Legacy Players can have their New Game+ storyline be the New Adventurer since New Game+ storyline will be a what if scenario but the New Game+ story content is set to be lvl 50 contents.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

This is as opposed to... what, exactly?

Maybe you shouldn't be playing an RPG? RPG gameplay is inherently stat based. If you want something else, then what you're looking for is not an RPG.

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I don't have a problem with RPG.

I enjoy RPGs but there needs to be somethign more than simple gear grind at endgame.

Some RPGs actually provide epilogue contents to do outside of endgame gear grind contents. The epilogue content can add adition hours of play time that won't require endgame content stuff but still provide time to switch between endgame and progressing in epilogue stuff.

Personally I think the philo stones need to be used for gear only, crafters shouldnt have to run a bloody dungeon over and over while they are already busting their asses gathering and crafting stuff.

There has to be another method for crafters to do what they like doing and obtain the "crafting" mats needed for their armor, i find it an insult that we have to spend philo stones in crafting mats while the combat classes either do not benefit from our services or have an easier time getting some decent armor.

Crafter armor has to be either easier to get for crafters and or have more tiers of progression that can make crafters afford to build their own armor.

I think everyone will benefit if crafters have some armor that is just as easy to get as darklight and just as good,another way to progress i would say.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

ya but it still part of the small box of "require AK gear and DL gear" contents.

There needs to be something outsides of this content. Maybe add a New Game+ Storyline quest chain which has New Adventurers playing the storyline again as lvl 50 content version but this time the storyline is the Legacy Version of the storyline rather than New Adventurer storyline.

Legacy Players can have their New Game+ storyline be the New Adventurer since New Game+ storyline will be a what if scenario but the New Game+ story content is set to be lvl 50 contents.

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I guess? I find it pretty standard to have to farm gear before you can do harder raid type of content. If it wasn't tomes you were farming it would still be farming dungeons to hope you get a drop to gear yourself out. Unless you want a fresh 50 to be able to do no farming and just start doing raids and stuff but I don't want to play an MMO like that. It sucks farming AK and CM for the tomes to get gear but it weeds out the people who aren't willing to put in the time to gear their character.

I have no interest in anything story related content at 50 personally. The way the story ended at 50 really killed my interest for the game. I don't want to put out any spoilers for people but I will just say the things you accomplish at the end of the story made me not give two shits about the story anymore. It was way too easy to resolve the conflict so to speak.

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Originally Posted by Onnslaught

I have no interest in anything story related content at 50 personally. The way the story ended at 50 really killed my interest for the game. I don't want to put out any spoilers for people but I will just say the things you accomplish at the end of the story made me not give two shits about the story anymore. It was way too easy to resolve the conflict so to speak.

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Actually we only won the battle but not the war.

What we did only benefited in the Ascian's plans and now they're prepared to make their move finally in the upcoming storyline thanks to us.

(people who reads this. You won't understand what I'm talking about until you actually complete the storyline so hop to it.)

Got to love ppl who rush through the game. They whine and complain alot. Best thing is they don't even know the story has yet to end.

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Originally Posted by LordSideKicks

Got to love ppl who rush through the game. They whine and complain alot. Best thing is they don't even know the story has yet to end.

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Not sure who you are even talking about but if you are referring to me I ready every quest main story and side quest to level 50 so..... wrong. Game has been out over a month, I wouldn't call someone with a level 50 a person who rushed through the game.I just didn't like the way the story ended, even if it is not the real end. The way it ended just means I won't be reading the text anymore.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

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Don't get me wrong, I think AK is still somewhat enjoyable, specifically the demon wall and anantaboga fights. The trash mobs got exhausting, though that's a different topic. My problem with tomes is that's all we ever run dungeons for, really. You know what you're getting at the end every time. Nobody who's serious about this game is saying "Golly I sure do hope that hoplite chestpiece drops!!!" It'd be nice, instead to see darklight gloves drop, or breeches. I don't know. Something that's actually not going to be replaced once you've finally gotten all of your tokens.

Instead of getting 1 gil from killing some poop trash mob, there's a small chance they'll drop a piece of animal fat or something.

I just want variety. I'm just throwing ideas out there, be them good or not, to help give an idea of what I really want.

I am sticking with my first thoughts...they are doing end game this way because they do not have enough content ready right now and they need to slow everyones progress down or they will have an issue on their hands.
If you really think about it if everyone could get their DL and Relic faster then so many FC's would be on Coils and done with them...then what???? After that there is nothing left but leveling ALTS and Crafting classes.

I find the grind fun for now...but I can see it getting old really quick. I mean what are we PROVING by running CM all these times?????
Then we have to run AK soooooo many times....why??? This is the most rediculous thing in the game. The only fun part for me right now is looking forward to the Garuda and Titan fights, completing my Relic Quest and getting all DL. Cannot wait for more content.

I was so happy to be done with CM I was like....YayyyYYAyy oh YayyYYYYyaa.....then I started today doing AK
and I want to just stab out my eyeballs.....UGhhhhhh seriously SE please make another way for us to acquire PHI tokens
do I have to mindlessly grind AK 1000000 times to get my stuff......thanks for pigeon holing us into this.....I get it Japanese
players love to grind.....only problem is we are not japanese.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

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I just want variety. I'm just throwing ideas out there, be them good or not, to help give an idea of what I really want.

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Ya there is a limit to what can be done in this game once everything basic is over.

some RPGs actually provide some kind of new harder modes of the storyline, while others provide special dungeons that unlock special endings, some provide tons of new quests that become available for completing the main storyline so people can learn what happened after the ending and what happens to people the main character know before he started his journey and during his journey.

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Originally Posted by Ruisu

Nobody who's serious about this game is saying "Golly I sure do hope that hoplite chestpiece drops!!!" It'd be nice, instead to see darklight gloves drop, or breeches. I don't know. Something .

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I am serious about this game and I CARE about Hoplite Chestpiece drop.
DL tank Body piece just looks absolutely f______g catastrophically dreadfully awful and I would never want to buy that when I level my tank. Hoplite Body and head is totally fine even for doing Titan HM, further gives me absolutely zero incentive in farming for tank DL Body.

There are darklight drops in dungeons though. Darklight weapons CLEARLY drop in WP. Did the OP forget about this?

And crystal tower will be an easy, casual dungeon you can get level 80 gear from thats even better than DL, which fixes OP's problem in 2.1. (although if you ask me I think making CT easy is a bad idea since its better than DL but whatever)

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

There are darklight drops in dungeons though. Darklight weapons CLEARLY drop in WP. Did the OP forget about this?

And crystal tower will be an easy, casual dungeon you can get level 80 gear from thats even better than DL, which fixes OP's problem in 2.1. (although if you ask me I think making CT easy is a bad idea since its better than DL but whatever)

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The problem I see is that there is just 1 path.

CM/WP/TP -> AK -> Hard Mode Primals -> Crystal tower -> Binding coil

there is a lack of alternate paths right now for endgame content.

Hildebrand Story Quest will serve as a Alternate path for endgame since it is a side storyline quest chain for lvl 50 players at endgame but it is a short path.

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

The problem I see is that there is just 1 path.

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Just like the entire game where your choices mean nothing. This is a themepark MMO, were you expecting something different? Get used to linear questing and progression. Sad but true really.

Things MIGHT get mixed up when they add new primals and the existing HM primals become optional content for people relic hunting and they add new dungeons and such. But if they tie the HM primals, Extreme primals, and the new dungeons to the main storyline then you can forget even that.

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Originally Posted by Noroi_Kisaragi

There are darklight drops in dungeons though. Darklight weapons CLEARLY drop in WP. Did the OP forget about this?

And crystal tower will be an easy, casual dungeon you can get level 80 gear from thats even better than DL, which fixes OP's problem in 2.1. (although if you ask me I think making CT easy is a bad idea since its better than DL but whatever)

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This will totally piss me off if they make CT easy and drop ilv 80 gear when all of us had to go through the pains of hell to get ours and it is not even any good. We would be punished for being ahead of the curve and that is total bull poo poo. They better make CT so that you need DL to run it.

I wish there was more to do than the prospect of just running dungeons and raids all the time. Leveling another class to 50 is painful, and rather boring as hell. Fates/Leves are just as repetitive as running the same dungeon over and over and over. They need to get some new content available, throughout the world and not just in dungeons and raids.

I don't care about getting there fast, I just want it to be interesting and enjoyable. There is this HUGE freaking world here, it is going to waste.

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Originally Posted by Mikedizzy

This will totally piss me off if they make CT easy and drop ilv 80 gear when all of us had to go through the pains of hell to get ours and it is not even any good. We would be punished for being ahead of the curve and that is total bull poo poo. They better make CT so that you need DL to run it.

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considering we are originally meant to go through Crystal tower first before jumping into Binding coil you may be disappointed.

SE originally planned people to play through Crystal Tower after Titan HM then they jump into Binding coil with some Crystal tower gear.

However, it also been advised that before entering Crystal tower you must first have your relic weapon.

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Originally Posted by Lux_Rayna

I actually agree w/ this post. Tomes are required for *everything*, which makes things really boring. I'll log in wanting to do something, but then i realize everything i'd like to do requires tomes. Realistically I can only do AK, WP, or the story dungeons. Over and over and over. Until Coil. There needs to be a mix of drops/tomes. A 100% tome-based system takes all the wonder and excitement out of RPGs. I know exactly what im going to get every time. Oh i want that armor? 10 runs and I can get it.

Do I want to log in and think "i have to do this 10 times"? No! Thats instant /logoff

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So you want to do the same dungeon 100 times and get nothing from your effort because drops are RNGed? :P

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Originally Posted by xXHalloweenTrixXx

So you want to do the same dungeon 100 times and get nothing from your effort because drops are RNGed? :P

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Why ask that when we already have that for Primal Hard mode. :p

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Originally Posted by EdwinLi

Why ask that when we already have that for Primal Hard mode. :p

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Thats the point. Primals HM is a mess because its RNGed. People could do the same thing 100+ times and no guarantee of anything. That to me is worst than just grinding tomes, because at least with tomes it equates to your effort and time. You know after x amount of runs you will attain y.