Suggestion to fix the issue with constant ragequits on some duties

I would like to suggest the implementation of a system to punish players who repeatedly leave duties. It's annoying for the rest of the group, and it's quite common for people to quit (or "ragequit") specially in HM primals after having just one single wipe.

My suggestion would be to add a second penalty to the DF. If someone has abandoned, say 3 duties during the last 2 hours (just an example, it should be balanced with dev data), he/she shouldn't be able to use the DF again in the next 24 hours, unless they make a premade group.

That would prevent people from abusing the system, as most of the time it would be easier for them to stick with their group and try to finish the duty than having to wait 24 hours. Otherwise they would have to look for people in their server, and if they would do the same with their premade party they would start getting a bad name in their own server (including being blacklisted perhaps), and that would be a good incentive for people to not do it, I think. Also, I don't think that this would affect any legit player, as I doubt that anyone would have to leave a group because of an emergency that often.

I hope that we can get some attention on this, as it's obvious that something needs to be done (regardless of the coming MVP system) to stop it. I'm aware of the current 15 mins penalty, but it seems that that's not enough. As I've mentioned, it's quite obvious on HM primals.

I'm a tank and I can get another group in mere seconds, but I really feel sorry for the countless dps that I've seen asking nicely for people to not quit and that where ignored after a single wipe (that sometimes it's even the ragequitter's fault). If people can't act like human beings instead of assholes for once, maybe we need to be heavily policed then :)

After the 4th ragequit 1 hour CD on duty finder.

I like it, 24 hours is a bit much but 1hr like the comment above i can approve.
I swear people in DF groups leave because of the most mundane things instead of actually offering criticism, how do they know what they are doing wrong when no one tells them.

Actually, I think that the 24 hour penalty should be that long. The only ones that would get it would the offenders, and they would be able to bypass said penalty by making a premade group. It's a win-win situation, because either they learn to act like a mature person in the DF, or they are forced to do so if they don't want to get stigmatized in their own server. It's both a punishment and an educational mechanic.

Also, note that this should work after the kick option is implemented, so I don't really see any bad thing about it if they could put it in.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Actually, I think that the 24 hour penalty should be that long. The only ones that would get it would the offenders, and they would be able to bypass said penalty by making a premade group. It's a win-win situation, because either they learn to act like a mature person in the DF, or they are forced to do so if they don't want to get stigmatized in their own server. It's both a punishment and an educational mechanic.

Also, note that this should work after the kick option is implemented, so I don't really see any bad thing about it if they could put it in.

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As long as it's after the vote to kick option, then that seems fine with me. Otherwise innocent players will be faced with this 24 hour penalty due to afk'ers, jerks, etc.

I don't know if the developers will go for it because it could be complicated to manage without exploits. That said, another variation that might also be interesting would be instead of a static lockout, have an exponential lockout, similar to what is used in many phones for login protection. Each failure (in this case intentional quit), increases the wait time before the next attempt. So for example: first quit is 15 minutes, so next would be 30, then 1 hour, then 2 hours, then 4 hours, then 8 hours, then 16 hours. After 3 such quits they are now spending longer than it takes to just wait out the duty finder time limit.

There are several caveats to such system, and it might need to be more involved to account for valid quit reasons, and mutual quits. AFKs etc.

EDIT:

Oh, and also, to the OP: some of them aren't rage quits so much as an apathetic or even depressive quit. "oh well, this team isn't working. Sorry guys. Good luck" After a certain number of retries and failures some people just zone and go in "oh another team that can't do it" quit. I have seen it a lot in Titan. Rage-quits typically are like the Cutters cry run where after one wipe due to the blm not sleeping unmarked targets(I suspect he didn't know how due to grind leveling), the tank said "worst !@#$ mages ever" and quit.

Just saying. Not all people who quit are raging, some are quite amicable. I even had one tank quit because he felt he wasn't contributing because "picachu tanks better than I do". Chances are those won't be the repeat quits, but just putting it out there.

I'll quit a run of Garuda if others haven't bothered to gear up for her and just expect to win, it's irresponsible to the others if you're going to roll up to face her with nothing more than your basic AF and lvl 29 - 39 jewelry. So why should those who quit based on the fact they are only doing so because of the shoddy effort by others who either won't help potential parties by not bothering to gear up or research what they're facing? A prime example just happened recently as I got into a Garuda run with the other Whm only having his basic AF and rubbish jewelry... He had 2,200Hp for hells sake and not much more in the MP department, he would have had to cast twice as much to even come close to matching my healing.

So in some cases, no, quitters shouldn't be penalized. If you want people to stick to the party you're in, you should attempt to better yourself for those around you, instead of being selfish and rushing to end game.

i agree, but 24hours is way too much..
some of those players will prefer to just start trolling and make you lose so you're the one leaving instead of just leaving and receiving the 24h penalty.

Hmm 1-2 hours seems a bit more legit and reasonable. 24 hours? Holy nut crackers.

Here's an idea, how about SE FIXES Duty Finder so that it doesn't take an hour to get in!

Then people can ragequit all they want and you can just pop in another party in 5 minutes. Genius!

First, remember that it would work alongside the kick option :)

The exponential lockout could be another option too, as long as it wouldn't reset for X hours and they could still bypass it by going with a premade group. As I said this isn't just suggested as a punishment, but as a correctional.

As for innocent people leaving, it's ok if people leave after trying and trying and seeing that they can't beat it, but those are a minority in the DF and you know it. Some just try until there isn't enough time left, and a majority just leave after a single fail or two (or simply if they see something that they don't like). Also, I think that, as of now, the system doesn't punish you with the 15 minutes delay if that's the case (at least I haven't got it when I've kept trying to help someone), so I don't see what would be different in this situation. They just need to check how often someone left a duty and make the system act against those that do it compulsively. They could even check the amount of times the bosses were restarted (wipes) to make it even more fair to those that at least try. As I said, dev data should be considered and analyzed if something like this would be implemented, but they need to do something and I think that MVP won't be enough.

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Originally Posted by Antonius2004

I'll quit a run of Garuda if others haven't bothered to gear up for her and just expect to win, it's irresponsible to the others if you're going to roll up to face her with nothing more than your basic AF and lvl 29 - 39 jewelry. So why should those who quit based on the fact they are only doing so because of the shoddy effort by others who either won't help potential parties by not bothering to gear up or research what they're facing? A prime example just happened recently as I got into a Garuda run with the other Whm only having his basic AF and rubbish jewelry... He had 2,200Hp for hells sake and not much more in the MP department, he would have had to cast twice as much to even come close to matching my healing.

So in some cases, no, quitters shouldn't be penalized. If you want people to stick to the party you're in, you should attempt to better yourself for those around you, instead of being selfish and rushing to end game.

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That will be solved after they implement the gear checks to the DF (with requirements introduced by the devs, not one of those unrealistic players that we have in the game).

Regardless, the vast majority of quits that I've seen in primals haven't been because people were bad geared or we couldn't kill the boss, but because someone failed once or because God knows why, because they just leave and don't tell why, thus not helping those that they might think that should improve. I understand that some people get frustrated if they've been dying in their other tries, but that's not the fault of the people in your current party and you shouldn't be impolite towards them just because they are humans and make mistakes (even if some people treat them as if they were bots that are there just for them to use and discard). If you're frustrated, please, go ahead and take a break. Both your mind and your fellow players will be grateful, and you'll be able to tackle the fight with a renewed spirit and a fresh mind after that. Doing otherwise you're just punishing yourself and those that are not at fault. Oh, and that would also help you to avoid the suggested penalty, if introduced.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Here's an idea, how about SE FIXES Duty Finder so that it doesn't take an hour to get in!

Then people can ragequit all they want and you can just pop in another party in 5 minutes. Genius!

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They can't do much about it, at least regarding dps queues. I think that they're already going to give bonuses to people tanking so that more people are willing to try it, but... Anyway, if you say that because of the reserving instance issue, I've not had it for two weeks, and they're going to put more servers for it this month.

Something definitely needs to be done but I am not sure how they would deal with people who disconnect due to problems with their internet connection. I say tis because last time I was in Df a party member disconnected unintentionally a few times until she could not get in due to the current penalty. What would they do with people who legitimately dc if there is a more enduring penalty?

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Originally Posted by MStowastiqVahlshdeh

Something definitely needs to be done but I am not sure how they would deal with people who disconnect due to problems with their internet connection. I say tis because last time I was in Df a party member disconnected unintentionally a few times until she could not get in due to the current penalty. What would they do with people who legitimately dc if there is a more enduring penalty?

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That "should" be easy to fix if they checked that it was exactly the same party (checking duty instance #ID maybe? I don't know exactly how their system works). I don't know why it doesn't work like that now, anyway :(

I'm all about gearsets. That's my thing, the cosmetics and fluff are why I'm here.
So that means running the starter dungeons until I get what I need.
That being said, I ran Tam Tara the other night and there was no tank.
Just an Archer, a ps3 conjy, and my Thm.
It was a tough run and we died alot and we finished the dungeon. I could have rage quit, hell they could have, but we saw it through and what do you know? I finished my acolyte set.
Today I jumped in Copperbell, had two THMs with no cures or protect. I gave them the old (See You again) and left the party. I jumped on my Conjy, got back in and we finished the dungeon. What do you know another set completed. My point is, you don't know these people, most everyone is a douche bag to one extent or another because online, we are anonymous. Pay it forward, be positive and helpful, if only to be the person who's not like everyone else. WHY NOT RIGHT?

I think they should change the deserter penalty to the average queue time for all players.

24 hours df ban would work perfect and they deserve it , every single one of them , or at least for that particular dungeon.
And while we are at it.. make it impossible to retreat within 30 minutes when entering a dungeon :) , then they can either choose to form their own specific party before they enter or play it with the random people they get.

having said that.. my blacklist gets pretty full , since i BL people who ragequit for the rest of their gaming life

If they want to implement harsher penalty, then they should allow a majority vote to break party and leave the dungeon without penalty.

You would rather people afk (or worse) instead of leave?

And once they do implement vote-kick, I guarantee you there will not be a lockout penalty when you get kicked.

Your idea will not work.

The design of lockout timer is something that's inconvenient so people don't quit if they don't have to, but also not excessively inconvenient as to incentivize people to screw over their group even more overtly.

Trust me, if someone wants to leave, it's better if you just let them leave. They're doing you a favor by leaving peaceably. They can do much worse.

Alot of the rage quits are not Due to the wipes But due to:
*Lack of Gear
*Lack Of HP
*Every Damm DF party has 1 to 2 new players
*LAck of ability to dodge
*Lack of ability to spend 5 mins before learning the rotations from a guides freely avalible on the internet.
*Lack of using food to make up for your charactors lack of dps. (yeah alot of food need as you need to use it again after every wipe)
*Lack of GIL & an over inflated economy on the players worlds & the repairs for there gear not worth the effort with a party not up to any of those standards
*80 mins to win a fairly easy fight... Not worth 80mins to do a 20 min fight.

Thats the truth behind alot of them. Obviously talking about level 50 ones here.
Not all of them because some players are idiots & *******s, Now your saying punish X-amount people for your mistakes? Not a very good idea! IF you could punish the 5% who are idiots only then many more people would agree with you!

How about a steadily rising penalty the more you quit. With a reset every 24 hours.

Quit once, standard 15 min penalty. Quit a second time within 24 hours of the previous, 30 min penalty. For every quit within that 24 hour period, the penalty increases by 15 PER quit. This way, it penalises players on a steady slope, rather than all out banning them from it for a really rough spell of quitting.

If i do a hard mode Ifrit, find that the group is incompetent after 5 wipes, i get a 15 min penalty. That is fine, i go make a coffee and a sammich and queue again. After 5 more attempts with a new group, i get really peeved at the total lack of coordination and quit. 30 min penalty now. Again, 30 mins is not terrible so i go do something else for a bit. Next group, i get another troll intentionally wiping the group and forcing me to quit again. 45 min penalty. Again, 45 mins is not really that bad. You cant really NOT find something to tide you over for 45 mins. In this example, for only 3 quits i only got a total of 45 min penalty which seems fair.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Here's an idea, how about SE FIXES Duty Finder so that it doesn't take an hour to get in!

Then people can ragequit all they want and you can just pop in another party in 5 minutes. Genius!

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...You've never played an MMO with this kind of feature have you? I've seen queue times upwards of 3 hours on wow.

You want the issue fixed? Go play a tank.

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Originally Posted by Gardes

If they want to implement harsher penalty, then they should allow a majority vote to break party and leave the dungeon without penalty.

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That's actually a good idea, and in line with correcting instead of just punishing. They would have to speak to each other and explain why they think that they should give up, instead of just leaving silently.

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Originally Posted by shikarin

And once they do implement vote-kick, I guarantee you there will not be a lockout penalty when you get kicked.

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Easy fix: when calculating the amount of quits, add to it the amount of times said player has been kicked in the same amount of time. I doubt that anyone would be that unlucky as to get kicked by trolls more than once in a short time.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

Alot of the rage quits are not Due to the wipes But due to:
*Lack of Gear
*Lack Of HP

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That will be solved after the coming changes to the DF.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

*Every Damm DF party has 1 to 2 new players

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It seems that you have a problem with the DF then. You should expect new players there, many veterans usually have their own groups or go with premades.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

*LAck of ability to dodge

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Again, it seems that you have a problem with the DF. You should expect people from all ability ranges.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

*Lack of ability to spend 5 mins before learning the rotations from a guides freely avalible on the internet.

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That's not needed at all. The game is not balanced around having to look a guide prior to try an encounter. Some people might find it useful, specially if they have a hard time with pattern recognition and the likes, but it shouldn't be required. And much less on the DF.

And if investing 2 minutes to explain it if they really need it it's too much for some people, maybe they should reconsider why they're playing an MMO and why do they go with strangers on the DF. I usually explain tactics if there's someone new and I've never had a single issue. And I can tell you more, I usually enjoy more those runs with new people as they try to learn and, oh my, it feels good when they finally succeed and you know that you helped them in doing so. I prefer it way more that running into a party of assholes, even if we don't wipe. There's a lot of experienced and geared players that are just awesome and fun tho, and I've run with a few of them too.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

*Lack of using food to make up for your charactors lack of dps. (yeah alot of food need as you need to use it again after every wipe)

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You don't need food unless that character is seriously undergeared. If that's the case, and as I said, it's going to be fixed.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

*Lack of GIL & an over inflated economy on the players worlds & the repairs for there gear not worth the effort with a party not up to any of those standards

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Going to be fixed too. Anyway, there's many ways to make money (and no, crafting is not the only one, try looking at some dungeon drops). In any case, you shouldn't expect to find flawless runs in the DF, and you shouldn't use it if you lack the patience and/or money to help people.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

*80 mins to win a fairly easy fight... Not worth 80mins to do a 20 min fight.

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If the devs gave us 80 mins, then yes, we can and should use those 80 minutes if we need them. Again, it's the DF, not your premade speedrun party with DL gear.

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Originally Posted by prymortal

Thats the truth behind alot of them. Obviously talking about level 50 ones here.
Not all of them because some players are idiots & *******s, Now your saying punish X-amount people for your mistakes? Not a very good idea! IF you could punish the 5% who are idiots only then many more people would agree with you!

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Considering that almost every point that you mentioned has to do with you (and many others) not understanding how the Duty Finder works, and considering too that a lot of those same people just leave without even trying to tell others what they think they could improve, yes, I think that a harsh penalty for recurring quits is needed.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

Considering that almost every point that you mentioned has to do with you (and many others) not understanding how the Duty Finder works, and considering too that a lot of those same people just leave without even trying to tell others what they think they could improve, yes, I think that a harsh penalty for recurring quits is needed.

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None of those points are to do with me, i help everyone.
People who assume otherwise in DF & elsewhere on the other hand i dont bother with.

Being that i help people i know why people leave or RQ just by looking around. because if i went into DF to win I'd do the same, Thankfully for you guys I dont.

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Originally Posted by Quesse

Here's an idea, how about SE FIXES Duty Finder so that it doesn't take an hour to get in!

Then people can ragequit all they want and you can just pop in another party in 5 minutes. Genius!

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Fix is coming with 2.1
Less used roles get a bonus then, so other players play the less used roles more and balance out the quota between tank/healer and damage dealers.

This game seriously needs a votekick feature

Ya know, I'd really just like SE to allow you to "replenish your ranks" while in a trial. It really screws people over, I imagine especially DD's who will have such a long wait again, if someone does that.

I'm against longer lockout intervals.

Why?

Because in some groups you really really know it's not going to work and can't do anything about it.
I did an Ifrit HM just yesterday. Most of the group obviously was pre-made. I'm playing a bard, so yeah, I got an easy job at Ifrit. But, I also cannot do ANYTHING when players are just playing not well enough for the fight.
In that particular group, one of the healers, a white mage, obviously didn't know about Cure I. He casted Cure II all the time, resulting in him being at half his mana bar with Ifrit barely 10% of HP lost. He also stood frequently in charging Ifrits. In three tries, we always wiped because tank went down after the nails. I then quit.

It was obvious that the healer didn't know his class - to start explaining that, even if he listened, would take a loooong time and an even longer time for him to play better. Also, when people stand in plumes after the third try, AFTER one has explained the pattern to them, they are really not ready to play endgame content. Same with stun-bot paladin: if he is unable to stun the eruptions (continuously), either because he has a bad connection, is too slow or is not content to just auto-attack until it's his turn to stun, then it's quite clear that the group will not kill Ifrit - why stay then indefinitely?

A 24-hour lockout would mean that a lot of people get punished for something they cannot do anything about - bad players and/or bad connection.

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Originally Posted by Kirinya

I'm against longer lockout intervals.

Why?

Because in some groups you really really know it's not going to work and can't do anything about it.
I did an Ifrit HM just yesterday. Most of the group obviously was pre-made. I'm playing a bard, so yeah, I got an easy job at Ifrit. But, I also cannot do ANYTHING when players are just playing not well enough for the fight.
In that particular group, one of the healers, a white mage, obviously didn't know about Cure I. He casted Cure II all the time, resulting in him being at half his mana bar with Ifrit barely 10% of HP lost. He also stood frequently in charging Ifrits. In three tries, we always wiped because tank went down after the nails. I then quit.

It was obvious that the healer didn't know his class - to start explaining that, even if he listened, would take a loooong time and an even longer time for him to play better. Also, when people stand in plumes after the third try, AFTER one has explained the pattern to them, they are really not ready to play endgame content. Same with stun-bot paladin: if he is unable to stun the eruptions (continuously), either because he has a bad connection, is too slow or is not content to just auto-attack until it's his turn to stun, then it's quite clear that the group will not kill Ifrit - why stay then indefinitely?

A 24-hour lockout would mean that a lot of people get punished for something they cannot do anything about - bad players and/or bad connection.

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I learn some of mistakes by being told by other players, some through experience, but you quitting ensured that WHM didn't learn about freecure for yet another dungeon. You didn't help them improve by quitting, and ensured that next time they queue they will make the same mistakes with a different group. Even if you aren't willing to stick around, you should be willing to give some positive advice before you quit in a situation like that. Maybe it won't help that run, but it will help later down the line for them.

Second: re patterns. I don't learn simply by being told. I learn patterns like that by experience (and only then sometimes do instruction help). You can tell me the pattern to your hearts content, and it won't mean anything to me until I try and see it and experience it myself, and it clicks. Sometimes this takes a good 20 wipes, sometimes 3, sometimes 1. But then, once I do get it, there is no problem. So the unwillingness to wait for those who learn by experience and take a longer time, is also part of the problem.

Most of the time if you explain something, they don't get it, you keep trying again maybe 10 times, then explain again, suddenly it all clicks. So the assumption here is that "if they don't learn as fast as I did, they won't learn", which is simply false: everyone learns at a different pace and through different means. For all you know another 3 wipes and tips is all it would have taken. Maybe not. But the assumption is the problem. It took me probably 25 wipes before I understood titan. And had that one group not been willing to work with me all the way to the end, I never would have gotten it.

I somewhat agree with the latency problem, but not entirely. I have intermittently dealt with bad lag, and it has taught me to better anticipate what is going on, and I can work around it, but that takes time and experience..

I wish something more would be done. I remember doing Ifrit HM and god forbid there weren't a Black Mage or Summoner. Wouldn't even give the group and chance before a healer or tank would quit. Even when you assure people that it is possible to do without an aoe lb3, they don't want to hear it. Usually just get the general response "It's only 15 minutes, I'll take the hit" and that's even if you're lucky enough to even get a response without them leaving first.

Only if they make it so that if you get "ragequit on", after 3 times you aren't allowed to join up for that duty for 24 hours. Too many scrubs who join Titan (for example) who are still in full AF with lowbie off pieces. Also, there are too many scrubs who cant dodge, and get hit by everything, and keep re-queuing and ruining it for everyone else.