Question on group dynamics in Qarn

So I have had far more failed attempts at Qarn than any other dungeon, and I am trying to work out why. I know I am part of the problem in some groups, but not others, but that isn't the real question.

Why does it seem like certain job combinations are so incapable of beating different bosses in this dungeon?

I ran one group: WAR, BRD, SMN, who spent most of the time on the Teratotaur. No problems with trash, no problems with golem, never made it to the final boss because we ran out of time.

Another group I ran: PLD, SMN, BLM had no problems with Teratotaur, no problems with most trash but had a few ko's to the bees. But never made it past the golem, constant wipes, take out the soulstone just to have another spawn immediately before any real damage could be done to the golem itself.

One group: WAR, MNK, MNK had roughly equal difficulties with each boss, one wipe first(my fault), two wipes second (my fault), 2 wipes last (and both on me).

There were a few others that I don't recall as well, but it seemed the same, different groups, faired very differently with each boss. Only the WAR/MNK/MNK could I say should have had no problems and what ones there were, were on me, not the overall group.

I am wondering if it relates to damage output, speed, and how much damage is taken by each class, but I am wondering if someone else can better help explain it to me.

How much of this is the dungeon, how much the jobs, and how much strategy? I would think that if you could take the right approach, any group should be able to do it, but perhaps the strategy needs to be tailored to the specific weaknesses and strengths of each job? Anyway, I could keep going, but just wondering if others could help shed some light on this.

I ran Qarn twice so far: once as a random DF pug that actually paired me with a premade group from another server (pld, blm, drg), and once with a tank from my FC and two DF pugs (pld, brd -> blm, brd).

First attempt consisted of a lot of wipes on the first boss mostly due to bees not dying in time as well as some tank deaths on bee trash, then we ran out of time while killing the golem.

Second attempt was smooth as silk (we 3-manned a lot of the trash because one of the bards decided to just leave after the golem "so long suckers, I got my hunting log entry"), finished with about 60 mins to spare, the only death was the same bard dying to doom on the first boss. It seemed to kill everything SIGNIFICANTLY faster than the first group, but I don't think that's purely due to class choices.

This isn't a big enough sample size to draw any conclusions from, though I'll say that from my (healer's) perspective it seems to favor ranged damage dealers because they can very easily target-switch to adds that need to be burned down fast, e.g. bees and the jurors / verges on the last boss.

You just need to have dps that does not have tunnel vision when they start dps-ing boss, grab adds as soon as it spawn and focus on it. I have always done this dungeon with my DRG, the other dps has been either a BRD or BLM

I'm pretty sure this is more about the specific players involved rather than classes. Skill is definitely a factor, and gear can be an issue as well. It might be more trouble if both DDs are SMN, since they don't always have the best burst damage, but even that is probably doable with decently geared/skilled players.

The first boss is, honestly, all about killing the bees.

Doom, on its own, isn't really that hard to avoid.

However, handling doom while you're also on a time limit to kill bees before they go all Final Sting on your group and cause a wipe, is insanely distracting, and requires DPS that... as someone above said, doesn't have tunnel vision.

First boss is a DPS check, since tanking it isn't hard, but you really need to kill bees asap. I tried to kill em asap, and first few tries were of no avail, until I realised that I should DOT bot bees first ( poison and windshot on bee #1. Same on bee #2 and continue normal rotation, finish other one off). This worked wonders and killed bees really fast. So you got to find a groove on how to kill those fast.
Second boss is a healer check, since everyone WILL get hit. The Aoe should always be evaded but most people get the "Stay out of orange area" idea.
Last boss is just learning patterns. Really easy, and to be honest, the only hard part should be the black boxes if you happen to miss one. And even then it is not wipe if you miss.

I just came out of Qarn 5 minutes ago, run was smooth. Was my second run, I explained all the mechanics and things went well. My first run, a guy explained everything and we still wiped at 1st and last boss :p so it's all about what you understand, and a little strategy can help. Did it on my WAR instead of my PLD.

1st boss is smooth once you get it. Tank positions the mob away from everyone so that it faces the farthest back tile ideally at the start. That way when the wasps spawns, he is close enough to hit flash. If he isn't it's not a big deal tbh, they die really fast when focused. DPS should be able to shred em so just make sure you guys don't die to doom. TBH never had an issue with the wasps, first times wipe were due to not understanding that the tile had to be orange to clear Doom. Wasps die so fast.

Second boss is pretty simple but healers and DPS gotta realize he doesn't give a damn and will attack them. Once that shock is gone it should be fine, he'll return to the tank periodically and there are enough pauses on his assault on any one player that the healer can heal them or himself up. Just keep cool tbh. I don't really feel there is a strategy here, I grabbed aggro, positioned away from everyone, eventually he says "im going free lance" I say cool and just whack him anyways, healer pushes up bars accordingly.

Final boss? On my 1st run the goof was me trying to pull avo, and kill Verges, and hold the boss. The thing that works best is for the tank to ignore all of that, all he needs to do is focus on the boss, he has no reason to do anything but hit the boss and dodge lasers. Anything else he does other then those two things is noise. DPS kills Verges, dps can lure the statues to the tiles, DPS dispels the traps. Put the mechanics all on the DPS hands and it'll go fine so long as they can dodge lasers. Creeping darknesses may sneak past the Tank or may not depending on stun resistance but it's all good, it doesn't do that much damage overall. If anything right before you go in, ask which dps wants to lure the statues to the tile. They technically can both do it, but it'll be easier to comprehend if you tell one person to pull em. Verges are just about if players know how to dodge.

BL and then Qarn are a step up in difficulty after the first dungeons. Problem mostly is people new to the dungeon not understanding the mechanics of the fight, and focus on the boss. About always the fight is not about killing the boss, it is about taking care of the mechanics. Explaining up front, and in the fight helps.
Also at this point in the character progression, you will find people that did a lot of fate farming, and about nothing else, so they come in with to low level gear. Which results in low dps, low hps, so in the case of Qarn, bees don't die fast enough, and people dropping from 1 AE.
Sleep starts to get useful in here as well.
i ran Qarn 6/7 times or so, all with pugs, and i've only once killed the first boss on the first pull.
just keep it up.

Brut

Qarn is all about your DPS. This dungeon is pretty much all them from the first boss to the last.

Bees need to be burned fast. You can take your good sweet time on the boss himself as long as you're dropping the bees before they hit with Final Sting.

Golem's heart needs to be broken as quickly as possible to avoid him dashing all over the place and wrecking everyone. It threw me for a loop when he took off despite having full aggro on both Golem and Stone. But again it's primarily the DPS who have to make sure they take out the stone fast and then pound him down once he's stunned.

Last boss is again all DPS because in truth the boss himself can be solo'd by the tank even without a healer (talking as a WAR on that one). The verges and the heads drop fast once a DPS is on them and then everyone can go back to the boss.

So ultimately Qarn is a challenge to the DPS classes. It's a wake-up call that just hitting three buttons while focusing on one mob isn't going to be enough going forward. The tunnel-vision comment above is spot on.

As for the best group I've found with this dungeon I've found the best DPS for it to be the Bards. Ranged DPS means they can keep pounding on the high priority targets while handling the encounter mechanics.

Trash needs to be pulled at a fairly quick pace as well -- this gives you more buffer time at the bosses. I've been in groups where the timer ran out because the tank took ages between each trash pack and that really wastes your timer overall which you really cannot afford to do if you want to get done in time, especially if folks are new.

Qarn is the first dungeon with actually involved boss mechanics. Before this you could pretty much walk into any boss fight without knowing anything about it and still probably win. Sometimes people won't be ready for that increase in difficulty.

1st boss:
Priority is to get Doom off. Fairly easy, just get to the glowing tile and beware that trick where the glow moves just before you get to it.
Next priority is killing the Bees. Learn where they spawn (it's always same spot). Everyone should be able to keep an eye on that spot and hit them immediately. Don't worry about agro, they just die too fast to do any damage. As tank I was soloing 1 Bee in about the time it took for Final Sting to go off. Even healer can throw an Aero or something between heals.
Once one person dies, you're probably going to wipe (unless boss very nearly dead). Just try again til no one makes mistakes.

2nd boss:
Endurance fight. Agro is just ... weird. No good way to explain it. Sometimes it just won't stay on tank like normal. DPS may want to give extra time at start for tank to do their thing. And again when soulstone respawns. You kill the Soulstone first, then burn boss much as you can. Boss does nothing during this time, so it's an opportunity for healer to res too. If tank goes down, keep trying.. have seen DPS kite this guy successfully for quite a long time (long enough to finish Soulstone).

Last boss:
Pretty much what folks already said. DPS handles the stone heads going to tiles. I've helped to kill the Verge as tank many times, but DPS could handle that too alternatively. Dodge lazers. Long as people stay alive you win.

Trash:
Don't mess up the puzzles. Spawns more adds which take time to kill. Kill bees first in the early section.

Second boss become aggro-random after you break the soul stone once; there's no way for the tank to keep aggro on it after that point.