Tomestones of Philosophy / Level 50 Fates?

I'm just curious, apart from the dungeon runs, I'm wondering why we don't have any level 50 fates that also give some Philo-Tomes or other gear/drops (apart from Odin and Behemoth.) Not like 100 tomes per Fate, I mean just something small to break up the monotony of grinding the same few dungeons. Hell even 10-20 would be enough. There was huge world constructed for us, but we barely even play in it. What's the point of stuff like the Slyphlands, and Natalan when they are always usually empty? You do maybe 2 quests in these areas then never set foot into them again. Might as well put a few level 50 fates in the strong holds and have them drop some of tomes or unique beastmen-related gear. I would love to jump on the game and do some uniquely strong bosses that require a little server cooperation than just those two big ones (which usually just one shot you and never load on your screen due to so many people doing it at once.) Just an idea. I'm not sure if this has been asked before. Discuss.

Good point. It would be nice to see some difficult lv.50 fates that gave a few tokens. that utilize the under appreciated areas of the game.

I like that idea. But yeah the Slyph lands are a amazing place and giving 50 fates for tomes I like. But only for people on 50 can get them. Otherwise were getting under 50's getting tomes.

But yeah nice idea.

Like this idea a lot.

Sure it should not be as quick as getting tomes in dungeons, but it will enable the casual player a decent opportunity to gather up some gear at less of a breakneck pace that the hardcore crowd do.

SE really needs to understand that there are varying types of players who play this game and thus there should be multiple ways to obtain gear that cater for all styles of play.

Give them time. It's still young.

Wryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

I approve of this idea. Let's go SE!

I don't like it. It promotes open world zerging and in addition it would be abused by anyone with timer, the ability to teleport, and the motivation to max out their tomes.

I don't see how 5-10 minute fate fights that give 10-20 tomes could be a problem. How would they zerg it? Have you done any of the level 49 fates in the beast man camps? Try the one where you have to fight 4 Ixal Nms in a row. Especially since most people don't venture into those areas at all, it can take awhile. Behemoth and Odin fights last for how long on usually? Let alone you have to actually travel around the world and time it yourself. Who cares if people time it and farm them this way.

You do say 5 fates at 20 tomes a fate. That's 100 tomes. Say each one lasted about 10 minutes. So it would take 50 minutes to get a 100 tomes, not counting things like traveling/teleporting. Also the zones could be balanced in having them pop. You make it sound like they would be up every 5 minutes, when most fates like Go, Go come up every 45 minutes.

Average CM runs from what I hear are about what, 30 minutes each for 100? AK runs about 40 minutes for 80? Dungeons would still be faster obviously.

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Originally Posted by Huxer

I don't like it. It promotes open world zerging and in addition it would be abused by anyone with timer, the ability to teleport, and the motivation to max out their tomes.

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Initially I thought the same thing, but they could make it work if they did it right. For instance, there aren't any level 50 FATEs I know of (haven't done Odin or Behemoth so idk about those) but they could make it where the spawn rates of the level 50 FATEs weren't as often as all the others similar to the way they do the special boss FATEs like Gorgimera. He spawns like once an hour. Also, the amount of 10-20 per FATE is too high. It should be 5 max for a FATE or people will just stop running dungeons. I agree that there should be something other than 2-3 dungeons to get tomes from, but not if it degrades the current system to where people are ONLY running FATEs.

Also, if anyone joins them before they hit level 50, they can make it to where they don't receive Tomes at all. The ways I have outlined can be easily done within the system they already have established for FATEs. They nerf experience,seals and gil when you are underleveled for a FATE and before you enlist in a GC you don't earn Seals at all.

I think the idea of the OP is just to give us something to mix it up every once in awhile, instead of running CM and AK mindlessly all day for our tomes. FATE's don't offer much more in the thought process, but at least it allows the player to have a choice other than dungeon farming.

NNooooooooooooooooooooooooo

We do NOT need reasons to FATE grind at 50. Grinding FATEs up to 50 was bad enough.

Dungeons at least teach you how to use your job correctly. FATEs are a giant cluster of stupid and boring.

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Originally Posted by Raldo

NNooooooooooooooooooooooooo

We do NOT need reasons to FATE grind at 50. Grinding FATEs up to 50 was bad enough.

Dungeons at least teach you how to use your job correctly. FATEs are a giant cluster of stupid and boring.

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You don't have to do it if you didn't want too. Again, it would be faster to do them through dungeons in most cases. It's just an idea for an a-side feature. As an example, think of how Valor works in WoW at the moment, you have multiple ways of accumulating it, but the end goal is still the same. It changes it up from running the same two dungeons over and over again. Unless that's your thing, then by all means.

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Originally Posted by JayCommon

Initially I thought the same thing, but they could make it work if they did it right. For instance, there aren't any level 50 FATEs I know of (haven't done Odin or Behemoth so idk about those) but they could make it where the spawn rates of the level 50 FATEs weren't as often as all the others similar to the way they do the special boss FATEs like Gorgimera. He spawns like once an hour. Also, the amount of 10-20 per FATE is too high. It should be 5 max for a FATE or people will just stop running dungeons. I agree that there should be something other than 2-3 dungeons to get tomes from, but not if it degrades the current system to where people are ONLY running FATEs..

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I like you idea about the once an hour but think 5 tomes is too little. Even at 10-20 tomes AK and CM/Prat are still the most efficient way to farm tomes.

I totally agree with Op this should be implemented, FATES are great (when the work) but too much of the world is hardly used

I will be ok with these FATES if:

1. Their spawn time is rare enough ( lets say 2 or 3 times every 24h ).
2. They give a maximum of 5 or 10 ToP.
3. Only lvl 50 players receive Top, anyone bellow 50 shouldn't get anything but little Xp and gils.
4. Devs look for a way to prevent these FATES to become the new main way to get ToP.

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Originally Posted by CUTS3R

I will be ok with these FATES if:

1. Their spawn time is rare enough ( lets say 2 or 3 times every 24h ).
2. They give a maximum of 5 or 10 ToP.
3. Only lvl 50 players receive Top, anyone bellow 50 shouldn't get anything but little Xp and gils.
4. Devs look for a way to prevent these FATES to become the new main way to get ToP.

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If they made them 2-3 times every 24 hours. It would have to give way more than just 5 or 10 tomes, especially since it would mean the fight might last up to at least 20-25 minutes unless people are actively timing them and hunting for them... which probably wouldn't happen. That would turn it into dead content very quickly. 10 ToM for 20 minutes compared to 100 in CM in about 30 minutes? That just screams pointless.

Only level 50 players receiving ToP however sounds like a good idea.

They would need to be well designed, and not a mindless, easily abusable spam-fest like levelling FATEs for this to work. Not sure I'd be trusting SE to make them balanced to be honest.

Sounds good on paper, but it sounds like a farfetched idea. Getting Dungeon Tomes for FATES kinds defeats the purpose for anyone doing dungeons. the last thing SE would want to waste is the server dungeons there upgrading to support all the AK ques. It would definitely widen the gap between the raiders and the FATE grinders, as well as worsen our problem of players not learning their classes because of it. "I bust my ass healing CM and AK, yet the BLM gets the same gear I do cause he spammed blizzard II in FATES"? We can't even see Odin or Behemoth when they spawn, so how do you think its gonna look when 1000 players are trying to to those FATES for their tomes?

Do BLMs ever get gold for spamming Blizzard II against Odin and Behemoth? Are you sure that people would use all of their gil teleporting from each zone/beast-man area to do a Fate every 45-60 minutes for 20 tomes? How would that make a dent in anything at all? I see people doing this as a way to get extra tomes when they are bored and don't want to do a dungeon to maybe get a little extra tombs to finish off buying a ring or piece of gear when they are 10-20 tomes away. Also, remember these FATEs will be balanced and designed around level 50. Most of them with at least 25 people minumum I'm thinking should take at least 10-15 minutes at the very least. How would this be a quicker way to farm tombs at all?

I'm trying to get people to explore and move around in the world again, not just have them sit in Revenants Toll all day shouting for parties or waiting for duty finder once they hit 50. It'll give other people things to do.

Well, the vendor that allows you to trade in behemoth horns and w/e has the option for beastman currency (not just any like what we'd get in 1.0, this is different stuff) to be traded in for philo tomes (100). A friend of mine thought they may come from the lvl 49 Fates in beastman camps, can anyone confirm this? Possible they haven't implemented it yet.

Here'w what I would like for level 50:

Once you've reached level 50 with one class, all fates will drop a single tomestone when you achieve a gold or silver reward. Only catch is you must be level-appropriate for that fate, without using level sync. That means any fate under level 45, must be completed with other classes while you are leveling them.

Just another perk for FATE grinding. But before anything like this were to come about, I'd still like to see all side-quests made repeatable for each class. I know it's possible to flag quests this way, because quests like A Relic Reborn work that way, too. It can be completed once for every single class.

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Originally Posted by Espi

I like you idea about the once an hour but think 5 tomes is too little. Even at 10-20 tomes AK and CM/Prat are still the most efficient way to farm tomes.

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I say 5 tomes, because you have to think about the way people will farm them. Most FATEs spawn on a timed loop with little to no variance. In 1-2 days you will have people that know exactly where all level 50 FATEs are and in which order they spawn in. Soon after you will have full groups of people hopping from locale to locale to hit every level 50 FATE in order and be able to clear them all. How many legitimate level 45-50 areas are there in the game currently? 7-10ish? If they put 1 FATE in smaller areas like Natalan, and 2-3 FATE's in larger areas like Northern Thanalan you could end up with potentially 15-20 FATEs that give Tomes. People would figure out a way to efficiently do that and make Tomes quicker than dungeons. That virus will spread amongst the game masses until it almost becomes impossible to find a CM group in the DF. Yoshi would absolutely not want this.

It could be done where you receive 10-20 tomes per fate but then IMO the time's between FATE spawns would have to be longer. In my understanding, FATE's supplying Tomes was just a way to mix it up from the grind. I don't see it that way if you are getting 10-20 tomes with the example I posed. We can't have FATE's replace everything we do in this game, there has to be some kind of limit placed on it to where it is BY FAR not the best option, or everyone will want to do them.

You aren't taking into account the amount of people who just don't have enough friends in game to have a pre-made CM speed run group either. Those people may have to wait 30-60 minutes to just get into a group on the DF, and then the group they get in may not have a majority of people that want to skip CS or even know how to do a speed run. In those instances, you just got 100 Tomes in 2 hours. In my example, getting 5 Tomes per FATE is already a more viable option than that, so I fail to see what's wrong with 5 Tomes per FATE.

Maybe it is just my server but gil doesn't seem to be an issue. Half the fate parties teleport back to the sanctuary after a kill and its in the same freaking zone. Mostly because if you are not at that next fate mere seconds after it spawns you won't make it.

You are being overly optimistic about people moving around the world. No one is going to stay there... rush to area when fate pops, return home to sanctuary when its over.

Tomes via FATE would only work after they release a new tome. Right now it's not necessary since there is no reason for people to gear up faster than they already are.

When new content is released, new gear and a new tier of tomes, then I could see them adding tomes to higher tier FATEs to allow players to gear up faster but right now it's just not a necessary concept since for the most part it is easy enough to get a group for any dungeon that offers said tomes.

Jay, it totally would depend on A) where the Fates are located and B) how long the respawn timers are. I'm trying to get people around the world, not just sitting in North Than/Mor Dhona all day still. Beast-man strong hold related Fates were the main idea. Most of the Beastmen seem kind of irrelevant for the most part, except for summoning the espers.

Roci, I could understand that, but again, teleporting around the 3 nations from beast men territories is going to run you way more gil than just warping back to the camp in the same zone. Only problem I could see might be in the Highlands, but with a 45 minute+ wait, why would people sit around waiting for it constantly? If anything this is something you could do inbetween dungeon runs.

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Originally Posted by Joseph-Joestar

stuff

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Make a FATE system that's "Balanced" that will make everyone happy, and can work with the current FATE mechanics. GL putting a player minimum and having them take 10-15 minutes, since most Fates finish in 5 and can have hundreds of players, all for the sake of 10-20 tomes. if only 25 will join, then forget the rest of the players who show up right? this sounds more like a new dungeon design than a FATE. You also say to explore the world more, but that's the thing. there's no where else to go, at least not yet. there's only 2 level 50 areas, Mor Dohna, and Northern Thanalan. until they expand the land, that's where most players will reside.

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Originally Posted by Kobolt

Make a FATE system that's "Balanced" that will make everyone happy, and can work with the current FATE mechanics. GL putting a player minimum and having them take 10-15 minutes, since most Fates finish in 5 and can have hundreds of players, all for the sake of 10-20 tomes. if only 25 will join, then forget the rest of the players who show up right? this sounds more like a new dungeon design than a FATE. You also say to explore the world more, but that's the thing. there's no where else to go, at least not yet. there's only 2 level 50 areas, Mor Dohna, and Northern Thanalan. until they expand the land, that's where most players will reside.

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Who's talking about a player minimum? I'm saying an average fate at level 50 with 25 players should take awhile to do. I don't think you are following. Again, I'm trying to get people out of Mor Dohna and North Than. That was kind of the point of the thread.

I think it's a great idea! Specially since there's the whole argument with speed runs with CM. Give the people whose only trying to get tomes some options. That way most of the people who are doing cm for the first time and want to watch cut scene will have a higher chance of getting a normal run vs a speed run.

How much do repairs cost at 50 running dungeons? Set your FC action to reduce teleport costs use return home for free and I would almost bet you would break even or save money. I walk no were in the game, I teleport at least 20 times a night and still have net gill gain and I'm likely on the slacker side of making gil.

A lot of care and development would have to go into the system to keep it from being abused. If it even remotely allows you to come close to the same tomes, people will do it instead of dungeons. Timers and locations would have to be random with no patterns or people would just use porters or run to the next spot. Once XX people started doing it you would have to add scaling to prevent the content from being zerged.

I would love to see lots of things added to push people into the world. There are many aspects to this games grind that pretty much sticks you to the same content.

Well that's the idea of the discussion Roci, to bring in ideas for the topic here. Even if you were to abuse it at it's maximum, from what I can tell, there's only 3 beastmen strong holds currently. So lets use this as an example. 20 tombs for 3 fates, that's 60 tombs. Each one, counting travel time, gil cost, gear repair cost, and people knowing actively when they are up if they are on a timer that are in sequence of say 45 minutes each for argument sake. So over 2 hours and 15 minutes to make 60 tombs, as well as gil spent on gear/teleport costs. Compared to say for a "bad" speed run of CM, 30 minutes for 100 tombs. in 2 hours alone, you could make 400 tombs compared to 60. Also, remember the main idea is that it isn't just for tombs. A lot of people seemed to just skipped that part over.

Even if the Fates spawned every 30 minutes, you could potentially only get 120 tomes for 2 hours if you somehow hit all the spots at the right times, and get gold on the fates as well.

Also, remember, they might not be up in sequence, they could be up at the same time as well, so you might not even get 60.

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Originally Posted by Joseph-Joestar

Again, I'm trying to get people out of Mor Dohna and North Than. That was kind of the point of the thread.

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I don't think you are following what your following. Your virtual pilgrimage seems redundant. You can't dictate where people should be. if you want to get your point across, then make a topic post on why do people hang there, and why not visit the other areas. Masking your intentions with " FATES need tomes" ruined your whole argument, since you wrote more about the FATES and nothing about people leaving Mor Dohna in your OP. What I posted is a counter argument to what you typed yourself in OP, which is your main topic. You want FATES with tomes, so I wrote why I don't think Fates should use tomes. then you say the argument was about getting people outta mor dhona, not FATES. What? Lrn2write.

+1 good idea.

Would help spread server stress by giving people options and not forcing them into dungeons. Sounds good!

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Originally Posted by Kobolt

Lrn2write.

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Who said about dictating where people should be? You are putting words into my mouth, friend. You also missed the part where I said "other beastman related items" as well. Most people jumped on the Tombs, so I'm here to discuss. I'm pretty sure saying Beastmen Stronghold in the first post with tombs was a clear indication. It was "kind of" the point to the thread as in to get people to not just mostly afk and shout in Mor Dhona and North Than. It was implied that it would give people an idea to go do other things. Considering the Beastmen Strongholds aren't in those areas. Having Fates with tombs will give people another option to acquire tombs. This could also help out with DF queue/reserve times on instances. Again, this is a discussion.

You might want to read the first post again.

Side note, another idea would be to have a token system like Odin and Behemoth, that could actually be used to purchase some Beastmen-related gear/items for doing some of these fates as well. Goblin masks anyone?

Imo it would be a bit faster than dungeons. Even if they dropped something small like 10 tomes of philo per fate. Imagine a Fate Train, 100 level 50's on the most efficient zone knocking out each fate in < 30 seconds via the zerg. Theoretically you would get 10 * Fates spawning per hour. So if 15 fates spawn in an hour you'd get 150 tomes + seals + gil which would be as good or better than CM, not to mention you'd be spirit binding with no time limit and and no trolls/cutscenes. People would not run CM at all and all the story line people would be like "OMG... 4 hour que".

I love this idea, but I doubt it will happen. They should do this though, and then come up with an alternative to getting people to run CM for Story.

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Originally Posted by Ryios

I love this idea.

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Depends on the time when they pop up, that's one thing that could be calculated very easily by the Staff. We should be pitching them the ideas, but they can put it in to practice. Remember these FATEs should be in the Beastmen stronghold areas at the very least. Having a Fate train for these wouldn't really work unless the timing of the Fates were all different and in a short span. I'm thinking more of the Attacking the base kind of FATEs we see, like Svara, as you advance into their strong hold. Could be interesting, depending on how SE would approach it, if they did.

The current FATE system shouldn't be used for endgame items, period. It will just become zerg fest and zero percent strategy involved.

Keep endgame to the dungeons, or instanced. Make it so it requires careful planning, gearing and playing, and it cannot become unbalanced because the number of players involved is always fixed, and not during one time period it is 10 players where you cannot even make it with darklight, and during another time period there are 50 players where even players with AF will complete it with ease.

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Originally Posted by Kuikkusu

Sure it should not be as quick as getting tomes in dungeons, but it will enable the casual player a decent opportunity to gather up some gear at less of a breakneck pace that the hardcore crowd do.

SE really needs to understand that there are varying types of players who play this game and thus there should be multiple ways to obtain gear that cater for all styles of play.

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What SE needs to do here is introduce shorter dungeons with smaller rewards. Instead of 40 tomes requiring 2 hours, give us some dungeons that can be completed in 30 mins with 10 tomes.

jc

We already have people who have no idea how to play their job at level 50. Handing them full DL without ever forcing them to ever play in a party (even insomuch as CM farms are "party play") would make the situation even worse.

I'm all for adding more ways to get tomestones, but making the "Coerthas FATE train" into an endgame staple doesn't sound appealing at all.