blackmage

Is it me or blm just seem lacking please tell me it's just me

Lacking? yeah sure we don't have bard silence or SMN mobility, but guess what...no one in the game burst harder and no DPS class is absolutely independent of everyone else in the group other than the BLM.

I make my healers life easier by almost never needing them to ever worry about me (except turn 4, 5 can go f itself). I also do stupid amount of damage and in every possible way, dot, single target and AOE.

Haha, your funny, because while the "basic" rotation is simple, there is so much more to the class than just "spam fire until OOM" And as if your class is so much more complex, hit an ability, Oooo shiny! I guess I should click the shiny button! Oh look another shiny button. Oh, no more shiny buttons? guess I should prolly do something to make them shiny again. Only the melee classes in this game have "complex" rotations (especially DRG which is what, a 27 button cycle before it repeats?)

So basically instead of 1,1,1,1,1,2,3,4,1,1... your rotation becomes 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,4 I don't really see how one is more "difficult" than the other... DRG is only "harder" because you have to remember more patterns, but all of the classes are pretty dry rotations, very little reactions.

We have burst, and we have AOE burst, both of which are pretty useful to a group. Are bards OP? maybe a little bit, but there is a good reason why the absolute optimal DPS for Coil (at least the first 4 turns) is 2 BRD and 2 BLM. I am willing to bet if your silence wasn't so important it would drop your down a few notches.

To the OP, can you be more specific, lacking... how?

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

/garbage

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All that coming from a bard, that's hilariously rich.

I have not done Titan, but using Manawall will really help, it allows you to cast w/o being pushed back by knock back. Which means less moving and more casting. I am constantly doing more damage than BRDs and DRG(LMAO). The only time other DPS do more damage than a BLM is if the BLM is in constant danger of being interrupted and or in the need to cancel cast to get out of the way of AoE. Again, Manawall, Manaward, Swiftcast, Surecast, will help greatly if you use these. If you're getting info off parcers, you do realize that they are broken right?

@ ChickensEvil , Stop being butthurt please.
Even though our rotation is not all that different from a BLM, we DO move all the time - something that keeps the gameplay lively and fun.
As for Coil, we DO have a silence though, sorry to shatter your pretty dream but we will keep presence all the time.
Stacking Bards > everything else. Trashy BLM can stack coil? roflmaolol! Go outside bro, youre mad. And you're completely out of context.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

We have burst, and we have AOE burst, both of which are pretty useful to a group. Are bards OP? maybe a little bit, but there is a good reason why the absolute optimal DPS for Coil (at least the first 4 turns) is 2 BRD and 2 BLM. I am willing to bet if your silence wasn't so important it would drop your down a few notches.

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it's the "1 singing foe requiem while other singing mana song to keep the other bard singing foe requiem" that makes 2 bards a very singnificant addition in the group, and last I heard, it's not 2BRD 2BLM, it's 2BRD 2SMN.

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Originally Posted by glim

it's the "1 singing foe requiem while other singing mana song to keep the other bard singing foe requiem" that makes 2 bards a very singnificant addition in the group, and last I heard, it's not 2BRD 2BLM, it's 2BRD 2SMN.

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lol burn :)
Seriously, why take BLM as a dps when Summoner do as much dps - probably even more AND can move during fights.

BLM have the highest burst damage in the game, so of course there will be tradeoffs.
I play DRG have my DL + Relic and have a hard time matching DPS output on trash mobs in AK vs. a BLM with Ifrit weapon and ilvl 50-55 gear. And no, I'm not a horrible DRG, I know my rotations, and I'm pretty tight with them. However, when it comes to boss fights, I will definitely end up doing more DPS as the BLM will burn out his mana pool if he tried to keep up in a sustained fight.

Things BLMs are good at:
Blowing up trash mobs really fast
AoE like a boss
Getting 1-shotted by bosses
TONS OF DAMAGE

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Originally Posted by Sinth

BLM have the highest burst damage in the game, so of course there will be tradeoffs.
I play DRG have my DL + Relic and have a hard time matching DPS output on trash mobs in AK vs. a BLM with Ifrit weapon and ilvl 50-55 gear. And no, I'm not a horrible DRG, I know my rotations, and I'm pretty tight with them. However, when it comes to boss fights, I will definitely end up doing more DPS as the BLM will burn out his mana pool if he tried to keep up in a sustained fight.

Things BLMs are good at:
Blowing up trash mobs really fast
AoE like a boss
Getting 1-shotted by bosses
TONS OF DAMAGE

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Lol @ the idea that BLM have an MP pool that means a damn thing.

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

/stuff

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@Sindri_Myr You really make some interesting, educated, well-thought out points...*sarcasm*...

I play a BLM as my main and we are fine, we definitely suffer when there is a lot of movement but we make up for it since we can ramp back up into our DPS cycle with no issues. Bards aren't too overpowered but I would love to see them get a short cast time on their attacks so they can't just roll through MMO life without any skill required or worries at all. I think Sindri_Myr is an excellent example of the kind of person who is probably forced into the class with no real rotation, or need to stop DPS, or need to think too hard in order to keep up with the rest of us. Not saying all Bards are like that, but I can see a lot of players who fall into Bard because it's easy and still a terrific class.

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

@ ChickensEvil , Stop being butthurt please.
Even though our rotation is not all that different from a BLM, we DO move all the time - something that keeps the gameplay lively and fun.
As for Coil, we DO have a silence though, sorry to shatter your pretty dream but we will keep presence all the time.
Stacking Bards > everything else. Trashy BLM can stack coil? roflmaolol! Go outside bro, youre mad. And you're completely out of context.

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Let's see here, first of all coil group comp:
The only posted guide up on the forums for coil recommends 2BRD (specifically for silence to make things easy mode... meaning if they give a decent silence to any other class good bye massive BRD presence) and 2BLM (or you can go SMN, they are perfectly fine as well)
Modified (one of the best guilds in the game) Group 1: 2BRD, 1BLM, 1SMN Group 3: 2BRD, 2BLM (couldn't find out their group 2 comp)
Tempest (another great guild) 2BRD, 2DRG
Order of the Blue Garter last I saw was running like 3MNKs and 1 DRG

Not sure how you get that BLM is under represented or not needed but cool, thanks for your pointless input there. All they need to do is make the MNK silence more reliable and goodbye stacking BRD for an interrupt requirement. Or they could move away from that style of play, making it less of a major focus.

As for the playstyle... I love how you have completely backpedeled here, but it's cool:

So you specifically mention "rotation" and then "im alreadt [sic] sleepy just from writting [sic] this", So I point out how the rotations are essentially along the same lines and super easy, and you call me butthurt, but yet change your own position that it is now more "lively and fun" because you "move all the time". Honestly, that just makes your class easy mode, because you don't have to actively decide when to cast something or if you need to move, or anticipate the bosses abilities to try to time your attacks properly. So I am not sure where you get that we somehow magically don't have to move all the time to get out of shit, but that's cool. If you want to change what makes a class more "lively and fun" then I dare say, we move just as much. Making us just as fun to play.

I will leave you with this, there is a reason the community has coined the term "bardtard"... so please continue to tell me how your class is so much more entertaining that it gets the connotation that any dummy can play it.

Back to the OP, I believe I have answered your question. BLM are in a good place, without being OP, if anything melee are unduly judged in this game (which is pretty normal for PVE games it seems), and BRD are a bit OP (based solely on their on demand silence which is practically a requirement). Overall I would say the game is decently balanced and play what you feel like, if you are a good player you will be able to find a place somewhere on a raid team.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

Back to the OP, I believe I have answered your question. BLM are in a good place, without being OP, if anything melee are unduly judged in this game (which is pretty normal for PVE games it seems), and BRD are a bit OP (based solely on their on demand silence which is practically a requirement). Overall I would say the game is decently balanced and play what you feel like, if you are a good player you will be able to find a place somewhere on a raid team.

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This is pretty spot on advice.

My concern for BLM is that SEs term for difficulty seems to be around moving and dodging attacks in rapid succession. Something that hinders BLM way more than any other job. If upcoming content will feature more of this then some type of compensation would be needed for blm to be useful in those fights.

For example making aoe important in those fights, or sleep/bind. Or my favorite, give thm float as a skill that allows for casting during movement for a limited period of time.

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Originally Posted by Sinth

However, when it comes to boss fights, I will definitely end up doing more DPS as the BLM will burn out his mana pool if he tried to keep up in a sustained fight.

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You do realize that BLMs have literally infinite mana, right? For a fight of infinite length, you would be TP starved, and the BLM would still be doing the exact same rotation he was doing 5 seconds into the fight.

What is the best way to raise this stat?

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Originally Posted by pitlordd

What is the best way to raise this stat?

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That should be the exact same value as Intelligence. Same with Healing Magic Potency = Mind. Attack Power = Strength. Why they list this twice I have no clue. But basically Strength affects your auto-attack damage (why you would be EVER doing this I don't know... but it is technically there). Mind affects any healing spells you have, given we have access to Physic this will tell you how good your heal will be(given our low mind stat and it not being on gear... or at least shouldn't be... this is also practically pointless, since you likely will never cast a heal, unless maybe you are soloing something.)

I don't know what the formula is, but basically is it some combination of Intelligence * Weapon Damage * Skill Potency = How hard your ability hits. I believe some people have either worked out the formulas or at least attempted to, so go look for them if you are interested, but bottom line the more intelligence you have the more damage you will do.

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

@ ChickensEvil , Stop being butthurt please.
Even though our rotation is not all that different from a BLM, we DO move all the time - something that keeps the gameplay lively and fun.
As for Coil, we DO have a silence though, sorry to shatter your pretty dream but we will keep presence all the time.
Stacking Bards > everything else. Trashy BLM can stack coil? roflmaolol! Go outside bro, youre mad. And you're completely out of context.

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ill have bard monk war blm and all can i say u must quit this game.

Sorry Chickens, i couldn't finish reading your text of death... i got sleepy after the first 3 lines.
It's fine though, you can play w/e you like, no need to rage at other classes. I simply shared my personal experience with the BLM.

@Xal, Cool story bro. I have BRD,DRG,WAR,SMN,SCH all capped out - so i win! Oh wait, i forgot it is not a pissing contest, oh well...

Sure smells like one in here. You come off as awfully pathetic.

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Originally Posted by glim

it's the "1 singing foe requiem while other singing mana song to keep the other bard singing foe requiem" that makes 2 bards a very singnificant addition in the group, and last I heard, it's not 2BRD 2BLM, it's 2BRD 2SMN.

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Requiem/mana song with a 2 SMN group? Please, think about this a little harder.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

Sure smells like one in here. You come off as awfully pathetic.



Requiem/mana song with a 2 SMN group? Please, think about this a little harder.

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can you give me a little better than "think about this a little harder", give me the reason why 2 SMN 2 BRD is bad.

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Originally Posted by glim

can you give me a little better than "think about this a little harder", give me the reason why 2 SMN 2 BRD is bad.

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Not sure if it's what she meant, but isn't there a limit to the number of debuffs a target can receive? I read somewhere that after there's two whole rows they start overwriting. Would having multiple summoners run into that problem quickly?

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Originally Posted by point09micron

Not sure if it's what she meant, but isn't there a limit to the number of debuffs a target can receive? I read somewhere that after there's two whole rows they start overwriting. Would having multiple summoners run into that problem quickly?

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no, actually, I'm guessing he thinks foe requiem doesn't affect dots because it's "unaspected damage", but tis wrong, foe requiem affects our dots, you can even try it if you want, I've tested it a few weeks ago and I tested it again today to see if they changed it,and no they did not, it still affects our dots, it affects ruin, it affects pet attacks, it affects fester. 2BRD 2SMN is GODLY. so I'm unsure what this fellow is talking about, and as a matter of fact I even tried to "think a little harder" and came up with nothing.

BC is a snorefest for BLM.
So is the rest of the game actually... except Titan maybe, that's a fun one that keeps you on your toes.

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Originally Posted by glim

no, actually, I'm guessing he thinks foe requiem doesn't affect dots because it's "unaspected damage", but tis wrong, foe requiem affects our dots, you can even try it if you want, I've tested it a few weeks ago and I tested it again today to see if they changed it,and no they did not, it still affects our dots, it affects ruin, it affects pet attacks, it affects fester. 2BRD 2SMN is GODLY. so I'm unsure what this fellow is talking about, and as a matter of fact I even tried to "think a little harder" and came up with nothing.

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Excuse me for expecting the game to work as its mechanics describe.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

Excuse me for expecting the game to work as its mechanics describe.

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well I'm not really bashing you or anything?

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Originally Posted by Youmu

Excuse me for expecting the game to work as its mechanics describe.

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Lol on that subject: the tooltip for Thundercloud is correct. The ones for the individual Thunder spells are not.

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Originally Posted by ChickensEvil

That should be the exact same value as Intelligence. Same with Healing Magic Potency = Mind. Attack Power = Strength. Why they list this twice I have no clue. But basically Strength affects your auto-attack damage (why you would be EVER doing this I don't know... but it is technically there). Mind affects any healing spells you have, given we have access to Physic this will tell you how good your heal will be(given our low mind stat and it not being on gear... or at least shouldn't be... this is also practically pointless, since you likely will never cast a heal, unless maybe you are soloing something.)

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I wouldn't be surprised if down the road SE introduces a secondary stat like MAB (Magic Attack Bonus for peeps who didn't play FFXI) so then Magic Attack Potency will be some combination, since DET seems to be about as useful as SATA for RNG/COR
*edit: Then again, Comparing XI to XIV mechanics/formulas, XIV is really, really less complex

BLM is where it's at. Plus the level 50 armor is awesome.

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

Sorry Chickens, i couldn't finish reading your text of death... i got sleepy after the first 3 lines.
It's fine though, you can play w/e you like, no need to rage at other classes. I simply shared my personal experience with the BLM.

@Xal, Cool story bro. I have BRD,DRG,WAR,SMN,SCH all capped out - so i win! Oh wait, i forgot it is not a pissing contest, oh well...

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prolly all lvl in 1.0 where it took almost no exp... gtfo

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Originally Posted by Sindri_Myr

Sorry Chickens, i couldn't finish reading your text of death... i got sleepy after the first 3 lines.
It's fine though, you can play w/e you like, no need to rage at other classes. I simply shared my personal experience with the BLM.

@Xal, Cool story bro. I have BRD,DRG,WAR,SMN,SCH all capped out - so i win! Oh wait, i forgot it is not a pissing contest, oh well...

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ORLY Now? First you state one thing, then backpedal to state something else, and now you are backpedaling again to say "I simply shared my personal experience". No, what you did was state "Trashy BLM can stack coil? roflmaolol! Go outside bro, youre mad." Implying that not only could you not "stack" BLM in a coil group (ie. take more than one), but that we were trash. I proceeded to correct you on this fallacy and then you reply with "I got sleepy", it's cool your rebuttals holds no merit anymore since you proceed to spout your ad hominem crap instead of explaining how you are right that BLM is "trashy" and shouldn't be taken in a coil group.

Update to my original list, Order of the Blue Garter ran 2 BLM for their Turn 4 downing... please, continue to share your vast knowledge with us about how crappy BLM is.

AM i the only one who thinks that sleep for BLM is currently a little too overpowered, I guess maybe more mobs in endgame dungeons are sleep resistant. It just seems a little crazy that i can sleep a whole group of mobs (providing they are grouped close together) for 30 sec. I know that is has diminishing returns but it doesnt always work as i have reslept some mobs untill the time goes back to 30 sec.

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Originally Posted by Pronsolo

AM i the only one who thinks that sleep for BLM is currently a little too overpowered, I guess maybe more mobs in endgame dungeons are sleep resistant. It just seems a little crazy that i can sleep a whole group of mobs (providing they are grouped close together) for 30 sec. I know that is has diminishing returns but it doesnt always work as i have reslept some mobs untill the time goes back to 30 sec.

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Thats impossible. Even if you reapply sleeps the moment it falls off, it would go 30>15>7> resist. What you can do is using your bind after third third sleep, after the 10s duration of bind ends you can reapply sleep.

Kind of an inane point, though. Almost nothing at the real end game (Coil, for example), can even be slept.

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Originally Posted by Youmu

Thats impossible. Even if you reapply sleeps the moment it falls off, it would go 30>15>7> resist. What you can do is using your bind after third third sleep, after the 10s duration of bind ends you can reapply sleep.

Kind of an inane point, though. Almost nothing at the real end game (Coil, for example), can even be slept.

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Does help with AK runs though, for the stuff that can be slept (about half cannot)