So I am seeing more and more of these gathering bots around and tonight I counted 5 in the area I was mining, 2 are out in the open and 2 under the map layer but you can see their names sometimes, the other is totally hidden I just hear him mining.
I decided to record a little of this hoping SE would see it so here goes.
http://youtu.be/r7uPs1vWfzU
Bot program ruining the game
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10-02-2013, 10:34 AMBrojamBot program ruining the game
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10-02-2013, 10:42 AMntall1
I was trying to farm Diremite webs the other day. In the area I was farming there are 3 main locations with clusters of diremites. A cluster of 4, 4, and 3. At each of these clusters was a player. These players did nothing but stand in the same location, and would instantly start attacking mites the second they spawned.
At first I didn't assume it was a bot. So I tried to harass the player by aggroing the mites before they did. This was very hard as they 99% of the time always beat me to cast an instant spell. They would never acknowledge that I was harassing them as I pulled their mobs away, never moved from their spot, and then when I spoke to them they would not respond. I ended up frustrated because I was unable to farm what I needed to work on my Weaving.
In that video it seems like they disappear and reappear at different node locations. How are they doing that? -
10-03-2013, 02:41 AMBloodwillow
Called hacking. Someone had an explination as stuff like this happened in WoW alot. Essentially they are sniffing the packets and grabbing the server's attention to move them around without having to do it on their own.
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10-03-2013, 05:51 AMBrojam
From what I understand they are basically changing the client side location in the memory and sending the changed information to the server which then places them where they want to be. The security on this game is really lacking and they seem to trust anything the client sends them, WoW tried to battle this with Game Warden and it inspected the data looking for changed information they could then act on.
I was a long time Wow player starting in Cata and never saw bot activity this bad, a lot of what people called bots were actually multiboxing setups where someone is still in control of multiple player characters.
I wonder what else is going to be possible given enough time, will you be able to warp around in an instance to avoid all the trash?
Seems there is defiantly a problem here that needs to be addressed and discussed by SE.
A little information from you would go a long way... -
10-03-2013, 05:54 AMAzakiah
SE got 99 problems, but a bitch ain't one
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10-03-2013, 05:59 AMTwilite
A question, why do you think this is ruining the game?
Also how are the node hackers benefiting from this. As a BTN and MIN, I see them all around me, but I am unaffected. I actually think what they are doing is pointless. If anything, all the warping around is doing is saving them a few seconds on travel time. -
10-03-2013, 06:31 AMEmberRaine
Saw my first "invisible" bots today on Excalibur. Pretty hard to report a botting player/rmt when you can't even get their name.
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10-03-2013, 06:33 AMTwilite
The best ones are the ones that become monkeys in south shroud and are literally up in the trees.
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10-03-2013, 06:51 AMntall1The warping around the instance was happening in AION. Players could even solo instance bosses by teleporting to out of reach locations and just dpsing the boss down slowing. Being able to teleport around the world without being caught is a game breaking thing... imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojam
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10-03-2013, 07:34 AMSneaky-BearWhenever I see those type of botters, just run up to them and then when they are in the middle of killing a mob, send them a trade request and let the mob kill them. Sometimes it takes awhile for the mob to kill the botter, but its worth it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ntall1
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10-03-2013, 07:59 AMCriosAs to your WoW comment, with starting in Cata you missed a lot of the hacking when it came to gathering professions. This was the biggest in Wrath, I forget the name of the big PVP area but that is where the bots would be underground farming. They put the warden system near the end if Wrath, but it took them a long time to do it right there and they had years of that MMO under their belt after they worked through the issues at launch. I'm sure SE will eventually get it together and take care of the bots after all the initial problems with the servers and now the soon to be transfering players. This feels much the same way WoW did when it was happening but they eventually got it right and banned many many accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojam
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10-03-2013, 08:29 AMKisaiTenshiHow to report a bot
It's actually really easy to report the invisible bots.
http://youtu.be/CmVwi1Qm_XI , this is me taking note of which characters are botting, look at the battle tab or make a custom tab that hides everything but "effects on other players"
That will show you the names. Then just check in the Player Search to see if they have other evidence of being a bot:
a) Has no combat skills leveled higher than the harvesting skills
b) If you can target them you'll notice they have no gear except for the harvesting tools
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4500386/
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...acter/4507193/
Also, I believe this is the bot author due to data I found on their website.
http://youtu.be/Ie8MB4SEutE
Also those bots have been running for 16 days already. You'd think someone would have noticed.
Players that aren't botting, will use other skills. Using any skill will give away the name of the bot.
I have another video set of the mining bots but I need to go confirm they're still running before I report them... AGAIN. -
10-04-2013, 01:56 AMBrojamHow is it ruining the game?Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilite
1.Well if you can have a bot running 24/7 farming mats you can afford to sell them cheaper as you have 0 time invested in collecting them thereby hurting the economy which will in the end ruin the game. I think you may not be seeing the real use of this. If I had a bot running I would be gathering while I work, sleep whatever and be gaining a huge advantage over you. If you don't see an advantage go look at the prices of mats in the AH then tell me they are wasting their time by having this run all night...
2. Having a method of placing your character at any place in the zone through use of a hack/glitch gives an unfair advantage to the players using it and people will get tired of this and leave the game, I mean why would you pay for a subscription to a mmo that is overrun by bots of all types and not real players. You wont be able to afford repairs in a economy like this.
I really love playing this game and think the overall design is awesome but I have real concerns about how this is playing out and the lack of response from SE. Here again a little communication about the issue and what they plan to do would go a long way with me and help alleviate some of my concerns. -
10-04-2013, 02:09 AMBrojamAwesome, I like the way you work :)Quote:
Originally Posted by KisaiTenshi
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10-04-2013, 02:24 AMTwiliteI can see this to be an issue for those who dont gather their own mats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojam
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10-04-2013, 02:26 AMBrojam
I hope you are right.
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10-04-2013, 03:06 AMKisaiTenshiOne of the original features of V1 was a way to prevent this, but it was also basically a slap in the face to people who actually play for long periods of time legitimately. The way to "solve", and by "solve" I mean nerf, botting is to make inappropriate gear wear out (crystals only require the level 1 starter gear, but you can't start Mining/Botany until level 10, I followed bots around today and it took them less than 4 hours to hit level 10, then they all logged off.) So a player that is harvesting/mining with newbie gear, will have that gear wear out rapidly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brojam
To solve the bots going after the crystals... well that's an entirely other problem. One thing they're certainly doing is acquiring the crystals from all the quest givers by joining the guilds, this has to be eliminated. The guildmasters should give the player just enough materials to do the level 5/10/15 quest they give, and require the finished product to signed by them before allowing the player to "level up" those crafting skills. The harvesting ones likewise should not level up unless a quest has been completed by the guildmaster. These are basically one-time "level cap quests", and unfortunately the idea comes from Mabinogi because that's exactly the point of the cap quests (to prevent powerleveling by botting.) Players didn't like having to constantly do the cap quests (despite being every 5 levels.)
Ultimately we can't just throw technical solutions on this. SE could hire a few players that fill out accurate helpful reports and give them someone to email/im/skype directly with to kill bots quicker. -
10-04-2013, 11:25 AMwolfsspirit
had one yesterday farming fleece at dragonhead .. SE fix this.. i couldnt target a single mob before they did no matter how hard it tried and i refuce to buy fleece for 1k each !! , seriuosly need those mats and i am getting sick and tired of those stupid bots
not only do they screw up market prices , it makes it also impossible for players to gather and craft their mats for own use -
10-04-2013, 12:28 PM10TailBeastThink before you post. They are doing this without stop, 24 hours a day, flooding the market with mats to sell for gil to sell to other players that have no sense. Meanwhile, legit players can't make any gil themselves because the market for their items is now in the toilet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twilite
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10-04-2013, 06:55 PMMishayangg
Ban em all.
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10-04-2013, 08:09 PMRemilia_NightfallDoes this work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sneaky-Bear
Man, I might have found my new favourite activity in the game. -
10-04-2013, 10:18 PMBrojamI tried this on a mining bot last night and was going to try to hang him up all night just to be aggravating and it did not work, he just teleported to the next node, I'm not sure about one that is in battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall
I have an idea lets come up with a way to world pvp these guys, problem solved, hell I would pay extra to be able to go on a bot hunt :) -
10-04-2013, 11:05 PMJahaudant
RUINING THE GAME.
Not quite. -
10-04-2013, 11:10 PMBrojam
YES IT IS RUINING THE GAME
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10-04-2013, 11:35 PMJahaudant
I can't recall any MMOs that have been genuinely ruined by RMT activity.
Your original complaint, the botting activity by itself, is nothing more than a trivial annoyance. They don't effect you directly in any way and thus cannot possibly "ruin the game".
Their indirect effect on the economy is arguably noticeable, but will never "ruin the game" for various reasons including:
- The majority of the currency these teleport botting miners/botanists gather is made through player to player sales which does not introduce additional gil in to circulation. In fact it reduces the total gil in circulation thanks to market board tax.
- The lack of super-high end and rare (sellable) items, and the fact that this isn't IRL means everything is mostly relative. It's nonsensical complaining that the price of Item X has gone up when everything else you can farm/gather/create/sell in order to afford that item is also more valuable.
- The Special Task Force [Unit], as evident by their performance in XI and recently in XIV, will be constantly removing gil from circulation and crippling RMT for brief periods between their ban waves.
- Gil is for the most part worthless anyway right now.
- The majority of the currency these teleport botting miners/botanists gather is made through player to player sales which does not introduce additional gil in to circulation. In fact it reduces the total gil in circulation thanks to market board tax.
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10-05-2013, 12:00 AMBrojam
So your telling me that the ability to teleport from place to place at will can have no negative affect on the game?
I disagree...
And if you look at the SE post "Total Frozen Gil: Approximately 367,700 million Gil" there is gil being generated by some means they dont believe is legitimate, this is more gil than should be in the game...
I don't think we know about all the exploits happening and the bots are just one problem.
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...8d1f1df953c121 -
10-05-2013, 06:35 PMMoonwood1. It's not how square enix designed the grinding "warping bot" isn't legal in anyway. You are just being cheap and lazyQuote:
Originally Posted by Twilite
2. Yes it will affect you guess why. Cause most of those using bots are RMT. They will sink the market, make profit out of you and HELL they will spam you even more to make real money out of you. This is THE affecting part. And not only it will affect you but other players. -
10-05-2013, 06:43 PMTruedragon
Alot of players use cheat programs. These bots you see, they are not all RMT. Alot of people are genuine cheats. Thats why you see so many people having their gil removed/ banned and are now crying hissyfit over it.
It is the culture of gaming today. You do a dungeon first time, and people expect you to know everything about the dungeon. That you "watched a video/ guide" and don't slow the rest of the team down. It is a cheating mentality. Games were never supposed to be played like this in the first place.
There is a solution for those who got banned while truly being innocent: cancel subscription, uninstall game and leave. There is GTA5, there is Call of Duty Ghosts, there is Metal Gear Solid 5. Don't whine on the internet. There is enough to do gaming wise. -
10-05-2013, 07:08 PMKisaiTenshiGTA V is having it's own whinefest of people unable to connect and play.Quote:
Originally Posted by Truedragon
I despise the current gaming culture of "read a walkthrough" or "watch a tutorial" instead of actually playing the game. I had this argument enough times on another game's official forums, basically it breaks down into:
a) Kids do not see anything wrong with decompiling the game to learn it's secrets
b) When that's not enough they record the entire gameplay and post it to youtube (So why bother even buying/playing the game now?)
or
c) Write their own walkthroughs (see GAMEFAQ's)
MMORPG's are one of the few categories of games that all of the above doesn't yield all it's secrets. However part of the fun in a game is learning to do stuff by yourself, and when a game just hands out quests like candy that you don't even have to read/listen to, there is a serious failing. Botters, cheats, don't care that they ruin the fun for others, to them it's all about bragging rights or how to get as much out of the game and cash out before the banhammer is laid down.
It's disturbing, because people who do this in a game, tend to do things like this in real life, and I'm not talking about the occasional jaywalker or person who steals a candy out of the bulk-food bins. You have people who shoplift, like actual gangs of people who shoplift for bragging rights, they don't care what they steal or how it hurts other shoppers or the store. You have people who work in retail who put on a smiley face to get your business, and the minute you've paid, you're shown the door. Offices aren't any different either, it's all about gaming metrics, and if you can find a way to cheat your way to the top, you're making the most money with the least work... even if that hurts other employees by your cherrypicking of the work, or cold-transferring calls you don't want to deal with to others. -
10-18-2013, 06:46 AMPhilotreu
Greetings folks,
We appreciate you taking the time to report this concern you are having to us. However, since this sounds like an issue with a bot rather than a technical support, I will be closing this particular thread. We welcome you to file an in-game GM ticket in order to seek a resolution.
Good luck and have fun!